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The Irish protocol.

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    But the contents won’t be entering the EU. This is what is crazy.

    give Tesco a ‘one strike and you are out’ ie if they smuggle the contents of that container into Eu then hit them hard.

    can you not see now where the belligerence is coming from



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭KildareP


    Who hits Tesco though?

    The Uk? ("Not our problem, the EU single market is the EU's problem")

    The EU? ("Bloody EU telling us what to do, go away, this is the UK! Your laws and courts don't apply here").



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Rules based organisation applying its rules = belligerence.


    State who signed up to a deal a few weeks ago trying to unilaterally back out of it.....perfectly fine.


    Head out of ar*e time, Downcow. If Unionists like you could see the wood for the trees instead of getting caught up in nonsensical propaganda and the talking points pushed by scumbags affronted that their other supplies are being impacted, you'd have an opportunity to take Unification off the table for the foreseeable future. The typical myopicism of your type of Unionism and your insistence on reacting to absolutely everything with, 'NEVER' will be your undoing if you ever get your way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I agree with a lot of what you say about unification off the table. But we would be crazy not to push for improvements. I posted some nonsensical checks a few posts back. I have zero doubt that the pressure applied will lead to these being dropped. Why would we not apply pressure? All will be good and relationships between the two countries in the island will be rebuilding within 24 months.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    If it is going to Tesco in the North, then I could buy it in a Tesco in the North and then drive to the South (The EU) with out checks. So i would be able to buy something that is illegal in the EU. I could fill my car up in the north and then drive to the south (the EU) and start selling it. There would be nothing to stop smuggling of illegal goods without a border.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That is absolutely what the loophole is in that.

    Nobody trusts the UK and that lack of trust has been earned...ask any Unionist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    This is now just getting silly. Even the eu bureaucrats are not concerned about that issue. Are you talking about a case of baked beans 😂

    do you have any idea how much contraband gets into the Eu each day? And it’s not coming through Uk



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So you want to open another route for contraband?

    Interesting.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,212 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    This is now just getting silly. Even the eu bureaucrats are not concerned about that issue. 

    For someone who didn't know the name of the leader of the nearest EU member state to you, I'm surprised that you know what the EU bureaucrats [sic] are thinking.

    The reality is that little will change in terms of NI for a number of reasons. Firstly the London government don't want it to chsnge as it suits them to look like the EU is being unfair. In addition the UK government do not want to be subject to EU rules because of Brexit and the desire by the 52% to make Tory donors even richer whilst standards for the regular Joe are decreased.

    Secondly there is a legally binding international agreement in place and it is not up for further negotiation. Any changes will be subject to the boundaries of what has already been agreed.

    Again, you know all of this. You have been told this numerous times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    But alas Downcow, the methods are important. Sometimes you roll the dice and push for more and you end up with nothing....is that a gamble you want to take just so the UVF scumbags poisoning your community can get their supply chains back in order and you can wave a mini Union Jack and shout Rule Britannia?


    I'll give you a clue, if you want someone to do you a favour (and let's be clear, that's what you're asking for, NI has precisely nothing to offer in return here), threats and belligerence (while ironically accusing those who are following the rules your government signed you up to of belligerence)....well that doesn't engender much in the ways of goodwill.

    Generations of Unionist veto have made your lot forget what compromise and negotiation actually look like. You spent generations doing whatever the hell you wanted and don't understand why when you stamp your foot like a petulant child, people don't do what you say any more. It's quite sad really.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    What issue are you referring to. I am referring to the issue of using the North as a way of smuggling illegal goods into the EU from the UK. The insisting by the EU of an Irish Sea border means they are concerned and therefore stopped the North as a backdoor for illegal goods.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,643 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    It used, to, quite a lot; as a member, the UK was signally poor at enforcing EU rules on imports of goods from third countries. They were constantly being fined for failing to collect customs duties, or letting in shipments that ought not to have been let in.

    Which of course creates a certain climate when an egregiously dishonest and untrustworthy UK government offers "trust us!" as the basis for its operation of the EU external border in NI.

    Seriously, if the UK government wanted to construct a deal with the EU based on mutual trust, it would have behaved very different for the past five years. It has worked with impressive single-mindedness to reduce trust. A strategy for remedying perceived defects in the NI Protocol which relies on the EU simply trusting the UK, when the UK takes no steps to build trust, is hard to take seriously.

    Again, it's indicative of Westminster's disdain and disregard for NI. They can't be arsed to come up with a credible strategy for addressing NI concerns.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08



    The European Commission fined Britain £2.4 billion yesterday, accusing the government of turning a blind eye to widespread customs fraud at ports.

    In a provocative move before the start of Brexit trade negotiations Brussels has written to the government demanding payment after an investigation by Olaf, the EU’s anti-fraud unit.

    As for the issue with dogs - there is a huge problem with puppy farms in Ireland. If there are no checks on NI ports, that is a straight route through for the export of puppies into the UK from these puppy farms.

    The EU says it will sort out the issues with Guidedogs etc. (there can't be that many).

    I think the issue of importing/reimporting farm animals can also be sorted. This I think originally came about because of Foot & Mouth when there was a lot of fraud with claims of EU subsidies for the same animals from two different jurisdictions (ie ROI & NI). That should not be an issue between NI & GB.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Maybe if downcow would ask his neighbour if he has any bulls for sale before traipsing all the way to Scotland or wherever to find out?

    Would that help? 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    the checks we were on about are the checks on stuff travelling from gb to ni. This will do nothing to stop puppies moving to gb.

    …and yes I have no doubt the petty checks will disappear. They are not tenable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Has this been reported here? 37% of people from Great Britain are indifferent to Irish unification, 30% support Irish unification and only 11% opposing it. This attitude by the British helped in the creation of the NIP. More people on both Ireland and Great Britain support Irish unification than don't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    As others have said the point is that the "negotiation" is actually over, as is "Brexit" when just defined as the UK leaving the EU and not all this mess continuing on afterwards.

    The UK and the EU should be working together to make this less painful for NI, a process that requires good relations and trust + honesty. In such circumstances saying "I want it scrapped" as a tactic of sorts is a pointless + unhelpful and aggressive approach. Unfortunately that is exactly what the UK government are doing. The whole "Trusted trader" (it's even in the name) idea to try and reduce burdens for supermarkets moving product into NI gives an example of the bad faith here as afair UK wanted to have several 1000 companies on such a list, all the while they still refuse to supply any data about the movement of these goods into NI to the EU.

    To be honest I think at this stage it would be more productive for Unionist politicians in NI to be pressuring UK govt. to engage honestly with the EU on implementing the protocol.

    Instead they seem to be doubling down on the same mistake that I think their support of Brexit was by backing up what the UK government (who definitely have their own agenda here IMO which may not be quite the same as the NI Unionists) are doing. Like with Brexit, it's a high stakes gamble.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I have said before. I am surprised that a much greater percentage don’t want rid of the expense. It should be a much easier sell for republicans to mainlanders as opposed to southerners.

    mainlanders would save a fortune but sotheners know it would cost them a fortune.

    posters are saying there is no connection between unionists and mainlanders. Though republicans have got a bee in their bonnet up here today following last nights supercup just because Chelsea fans socialised in loyalist areas and walked to the ground behind a loyalist band. Why would they not be drawn to areas where they saw their national flag flying

    can they not see the hypocrisy. If shamrock rovers had been playing in it the same people would have had no issue if their fans had been drawn to tricolours and socialised in republican areas and walked to the ground behind an traditional Irish band

    hypocrisy! And lack of self awareness



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I think most Chelsea fans (my son is a fervent supporter and has been on the forums today) hadn't a clue what was going on. A 'hijack' by the loyalist band one of them called it.


    P.S. I think the big 'bee in the bonnet' is the F* the Pope comment on the BBC TBH



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    So only 11% of British want to retain the North and you're suprised it is that high. Meanwhile nearly 66% of people in the south support irish unification. I think we all know how it will end but how long it takes is the question.


    You paint a sad picture of the apartheid city with its loyalist and republican areas. Btw English football fans like Chelsea supporters don't have marching bands, this "culture" that they were subjected to probably gives them more reason to think that these people are different to us.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    On the Chelsea fan thing, you're mistaken to some extent; while certainly not representative of all Chelsea fans, there has long been a connection between Chelsea, Rangers and Linfield fans.

    Not what you'd call incredibly common, given the international support for the Premier League, but if you were to pick a team who would have a connection to marching culture, you'd be most likely to find it among Chelsea fans.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    You may have been right how it could have ended but since gfa you stats are entirely irrelevant. There cannot be a united ireland until there is a majority of ni want it and I wouldn’t hold my breath for that one.

    and I wasn’t painting any picture. I was simply exposing hypocrisy. Can you imagine if a set of fans enjoyed themselves absorbing some Irish culture and unionists got all upset because they seemed to be having too much fun and suggested that they had all been kidnapped and taken to the Irish republican area against their will. Haha. You couldn’t make it up. And would you say they had been ‘subjected’ to traditional irish music - oh the hypocrisy!

    and of course it was a different cultural experience. That’s the diversity bit of the Uk you don’t seem to get - if the fans had been in lands end, john O’ groats, Cardiff or Leeds, it would have been all different.

    is this them being hijacked or is this them being released after being force-fed alcohol all day in Sandy Row. I am not quite sure lol 😂

    https://mobile.twitter.com/vincekearney/status/1425535041342423040



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    So they were or they were not hijacked? Not sure what the story is now?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭KildareP


    The TCA agreement between the UK and the EU is not tenable without these checks.

    Which scenario do you believe Westminster will find the easier to swallow and sell to the largest majority?

    (1) Checks between the extremely large landmass of GB and the small periphery territory to its West that will impact heavily on those GB-based companies doing business with a market of ~1.9m people?

    (2) No trade agreement between the UK and EU that will impact heavily on any UK-based company doing business with a market of ~447m people?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Where did I say it had been hijacked?! Crikey, Downcow....I was agreeing with you on this one, keep your hair on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Will there be checks on the GB side coming from NI? If not, then it's an open border between UK and EU if there are no checks in NI either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It was somebody on a Chelsea forum who said it was 'hijacked'.

    I have no idea how true that was, but you don't have to go on to Chelsea forums to see that some were depressed by the sectarianism on display. Some Twitter comments:

    My partner is at that match. We're from Catholic backgrounds (lapsed etc etc) The sectarianism is extremely depressing. There are Chelsea fans who are Irish Catholics. This is a slap in the face.


    What were BT sports and Uefa championing today before the match?

    Hope United.

    Seeing this pretty depressing, straight out of the 1980s. Pity, it's this small minority that continues to let down Chelsea fans.

    I'm sure the global Che fans feels embarrassed at the scenes only in NI.

    Stephen Clarke on Twitter: "@vincekearney @ChelseaFC @rtenews @RTEsport @dohertypj @G_Broadcast And aren’t they a lovely bunch! https://t.co/0lFe0CGsln" / Twitter

    Just some of the stuff from downcow's own link.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Taliyah Massive Ax


    You think ? I was brought up in a very working class Unionist household in a very Unionist town, and at this point I feel much more affinity with RoI than I do with Gt Britain; the current UK government is easily the most incompetent, corrupt and out-of-touch with working people that I have seen in my lifetime (> 50 yrs). Even Maggie beats this lot.

    I would vote unification right now if asked, and I know a few from the same type of background who are similar.

    You might be surprised how many of the silent middle of the road "Unionists" are quietly shifting their opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    The North can't stop the UK from collapsing, can it. If Scotland and England decide to go it alone then you are no longer in the union or a unionist.


    And it was an Irish cultural experience for those Chelsea fans in their eyes. On the talk of football why is the association of the North called the "Irish Football Association" when it's football fans are not Irish according to you?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 933 ✭✭✭jamule


    There are really 2 types of fans. The ones whinging about the prod band are fans of chelsea global brand company football club, not a clue about the club other than the recent billionaires play thing.

    The others are the real chelsea supporters, they were there before the russian takeover and they will be there when the go to **** again. They will also support rangers and Linfield to a lesser degree (and all the shitebag right whinge guff that comes with it).



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