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The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

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Comments

  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Im not a member,nor supporter of any party,just oppose conceited critism,that deosnt stand up factually or logically



    The chap was an informer for the gaurds,to my eyes they let him kill and bury with impunity,and have qs to answer.....much like the british have qs to answer in relation to stakeknife and the disapperence of margaret perry to name but two



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,377 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Again...unverified innuendo, allegation and insinuation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    who policed and administrated the country for those 100 years , tens of thousands of men served the only state that they had , and to be retrospectively labeled as you and others do for cheap political point scoring is just nasty and exploitative . but then again par for the course.

    you know how many irish men served in the british army all over the world for hundreds of years ?some still do . you might want to brand them all as imperialistic oppressors and violent rabid dogs but most of them just needed a job and to create a life for themselves.

    bending history to suit a modern narrative is disrespectful in the extreme , sort of like the way sf claim a link to the sf of 1916 and the 20s when in reality there is none



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,377 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You can say the same of almost any army/police force the world over, since time began.

    NOBODY is saying don't commemorate these people individually, you can commemorate anybody you want Mike.

    What is being said is that the organisations these men and women represented are not going to be remembered by the State. No State that has emerged out of a colonial background does that anywhere in the world.

    The champions of our oppressors here will just have to accept that 'officially' these organisations are on the wrong side of our history.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    the mentality that allows some one to retrospectively assign blame for political and personal murders carried out by another is something that we hear a lot in ths thread but only from one side,

    there are still many murders being protected by political party's in this country , i for one think thats disgusting


    the responsibility for shooting some one lies with the scumbag who pulled the trigger and those who hide him



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    so you are holding to the lie that this was specifically an event in relation to the black and tans who served during those 2 years ? coz we know it wasnt .

    champions of our oppressors ? really francie ? 😄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,377 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    the responsibility for shooting some one lies with the scumbag who pulled the trigger and those who hide him


    but not if you were in the RIC/Black and Tans, you 'just wanted a job'.


    Such blatant hypocrisy in a few short posts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    thats a very weak effort to smear me for saying something i didnt , i should expect better from you but i dont



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,377 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    CDarby has already answered this more eloquently than I could. So if he/she doesn't mind I will reshare it, in case you missed it.

    Listen chap, there's no point trying to serve a big greasy waffle burger to this poster, cos it's not going to fly.

    The commemoration was to commemorate the RIC, and the DMP, the former of which had the Tans incorporated into itself to bolster it's forces. This is recorded in history, it's an undeniable fact that cannot and will not be airbrushed away.

    Don't be attempting to insult my intelligence by trying to claim otherwise, you cannot commemorate one and claim the other would be separate to that, it would be like holding a state celebration for AGS, and claim it didn't cover the traffic core (national road policing bureau) or the missing persons bereau.

    It's not going to fly with me markodaly, and it certainly didn't fly with the public, and indeed various members of both FFG party's.

    You might as well give it up now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    So you still talking about a commemoration that never happened.

    As you are aware the plan was never to have the event with any link to the “tans”. No need for the outrage as I pointed out yesterday it never went ahead



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,613 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    BBC done a very good review of the event, an angle from both sides. Not something we see from some parties

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51095369



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,613 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Don’t feed these sort Mike, they base all their m. o. on trying to tire out sensible folk,and whose only way of life seems to be defend the indefensible.

    These folk get their kicks by this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    I did like the bit from the BBC on the guy who was against

    ”Regarding his own RIC heritage, Mr Ó Luain admitted he knows little of his paternal great-grandfather or his role in the force

    I actually don't know much about him to be honest. I've never researched him, funnily enough for a historian," he said.”

    Imagind going onto the BBC, outraged over an event, call yourself an historian and then not even know anything about your own families history. I have good money on which party this lad supports



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,377 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I think the guys and gals trying to separate out the Black and Tans are the ones most answerable for a lack of historical knowledge, as they are posting on the thread. No need to introduce somebody from some programme you are not linking to, to have yet another vague pop at a political party.


    P.S. I have no doubt there are historically unaware people in SF and other parties...we have had plenty of gaffes across the board.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The Tan's were hired mercenaries from Britain brought over for the least year or two of the history of the RIC. They were auxiliaries to the RIC.

    Many RIC members resigned over this fact.

    If there was an actual commemoration maybe people would be educated on the matter, rather than reading the 'Up da Ra' ladybird version.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,377 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What a shame you didn't include all of what O'Luain said and only posted the bit you could construct a rant about. Par for the course again, mis-represent and invent opinions in order to have a rant.

    I notice you left out why he didn't feel any particular need to research his relative, which makes complete sense to me. What my ancestors did has no bearing on what I believe in.

    Here is what he said for the record.

    Mr Ó Luain accused the government of trying to "spin" the controversy by saying the ceremony was only for the RIC and DMP, arguing both forces oppressed their fellow citizens.

    He cited examples such as the RIC assisting the exportation of food out of Ireland during the famine, and the DMP clashing with striking workers during the 1913 Lockout.

    Regarding his own RIC heritage, Mr Ó Luain admitted he knows little of his paternal great-grandfather or his role in the force.

    "I actually don't know much about him to be honest. I've never researched him, funnily enough for a historian," he said.

    "I've never gone down the genealogy track, mainly because I don't think that what our relatives did prior to us should determine our political stance in the here and now.

    "We have to understand the past of course, but we don't have to take our lead from people just because we were related to them in some bygone time."

    As for the deferred ceremony, Mr Ó Luain wants it cancelled altogether.

    "People are entitled to hold their own private commemorations in cemeteries; at monuments; wherever, but I think there's a marked difference between that and a state-led commemoration," he said.

    "It was imposing a false consensus on the people - essentially commemorating oppressors of the Irish people."




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    By that rationale, the IRA post the Treaty, including the PIRA nutjobs that came after, were all on the wrong side of history, seeing as they lost.

    Therefore, we can NEVER have any state commemoration of anything to do with the IRA post-1921 or the PIRA post-1969, as they were all fighting the will of the people, fighting with no democratic mandate and ultimately traitors to the country, seeing as they were going out killing members of An Gardai and the Irish Defence Forces.

    The 'wrong' side of history as you put it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    I provided the link with both views Francie, something which you would never do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    What an ignorant idiot.

    But there is a lot of greenwashing going on with our history. There is a long tight history of Irish people joining the British Army for example, yet they have all been pretty much thrown into the trash heap of history. Same with the RIC.

    Irish history is not some 'up da Ra' version we often hear of online or from the usual outrage merchants, it's a bit more complicated than that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Hear hear!!

    100% true. There is always a party line to he told where the truth is laundered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,377 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I'll let you convince the electorate of that Mike. Let us know how you get on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Ah ok, so it's one rule for the RIC and another role for other commemorations.

    Just as I thought.

    Do as I say, not as I do....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,377 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You provided a parsed out bit of what he said minus his rationale.

    We know exactly why you did that, from the bet you made at the end of your little rant. (what party were you betting on BTW?)

    Transparent as day what you were doing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,377 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    There were educational assessments of them as part of the commemorations mark.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,377 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What 'rule' did I set?

    I said, work away on convincing the electorate on that. You do know that is what you are required to do. You are not Flanagan and Varadkar going on another solo run here surely?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    You made great hay with your remarks that the RIC 'violently resisted the foundation of the state'.

    Isn't this what the IRA post the treaty did?

    Isn't this what the PIRA did?

    After all, they did not recognise the legitimacy of the Dail, or the Dublin government, or the Gardai, or the Irish Defence Forces.....

    Spin away, Francie.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    I provided the link and then in a separate post I called out one section about a person who claims they are a “historian” but unable to tell anything about their own family history

    It is 100% transparent what I am doing, I am giving both points of view and for some reason you have an issue with it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,377 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Spin what mark?

    Your pivot away from what Leo and Charlie attempted to do in 'this' state, to some future exclusion you wish to promote?

    I said, go ahead and convince the electorate of that if anyone proposes a state commemoration for the IRA (something I have already said would be inappropriate on this very forume)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,377 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    AND you neglected to post their rationale for not being particularly interested in that relative. Which made perfect sense.

    You did this in order to portray him as being stupid and to have a bet on his party membership.

    Transparent all day long dudley79.



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