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New Alternative News Channel "GB News" chaired by Andrew Neil launching - read OP before posting

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You can't inject words into someone else's mouth like that, and assume the worst possible motivation.

    I was watching Farage's lips move when he said that the RNLI should save migrant lives, but that it shouldn't have to. The crisis is burdening their already difficult work.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,159 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Says the guy who spent pages "assuming the worst possible motivation" about Rashfords charity work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,429 ✭✭✭Morgans


    No. But his supporters on this threat have said

    "I just think that sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. It sends the message to the next wave that there is no risk, they'll be picked up at sea and rescued. Which may end up encouraging way more dinghies than the RNLI can handle. Is that really responsible messaging to send?"

    Didnt see you disagreeing.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Can you refer us to instances of you changing your opinion on the site? In fact, I'd say you're a prime example of blinkered conservatism. I recall you recently saying that you rather like Orban based on a Tucker Carlson interview. This was in spite of the fact you're well aware of the numerous human rights abuses under his regime. Basically you seem to admire the far right whatever they do and don't really want to express any criticism of them.

    Ya, Nigel Farage and his supporters tend to xenophobes. That's because his entire career has been built off expressing xenophobic views. In much the same way as I'd say a person who's fine with letting people drown because they're refugees is in fact a xenophobe. You can take offense by this viewpoint but if you're happy to support individuals with rather hateful views, the fact that you are happy to excuse them means you either share the views or don't view them to be that bad. That's not a view on Brexit supporters but a view on people who lap up Farage's commentary. Farage is Tommy Robinson in a suit.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't recall seeing that post, though it would have been helpful had you linked it.

    That said, it's not my view and it's not Farage's view and it's not your view. All three of us are in alignment.

    I'm sure that you can find a crackpot supporter of every politician. It doesn't mean that we can superglue those views to the politician, as if they are somehow responsible for the views of all their supporters.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nigel Farage has never uttered one xenophobic statement in his entire political career. If he were truly xenophobic, I wouldn't be a supporter.

    Making statements on immigration =/= automatically xenophobic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,429 ✭✭✭Morgans




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What more can I say? I don't support allowing migrants to drown.

    I also believe, like Farage, that the RNLI should not act as a taxi service for incoming migrants.

    Holding both of those views at the same time is not incompatible.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sure he hasn't, another prime example of blinkered viewpoints tbh.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What happens is that Farage offers commentary on the immigration question and, no matter how mild the comment, it'll be packaged as "racist" by his political opponents.

    There is no sense of balance or perspective. All critical views on migration are automatically deemed xenophobic by large swathes of the Left.

    Criminal rapists and murderers were about to be deported from the UK the other day. Diane Abbott argued that was racist and they should remain in the UK.

    See my point?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,429 ✭✭✭Morgans


    Who has said that the RNLI should be a taxi service?

    For someone who pretends to care about words being put in Nigel Farage's mouth, you seem very keen to do exactly that whenever it suits you.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I've changed my mind millions of times over the years. I used to be a liberal leftie, Israel-hating, Obama-supporting person.


    My views evolved over the years and I now hold the opposite views on many issues. I used to think Israel were evil personified until my eyes were opened to the context of their neighbours in the region all being a hell of a lot worse.


    I previously alluded to the idea that migrants rescued might remove the hazard and thereby embolden multiples of migrants to make the trip on the expectation that they'll be saved if things go belly up. I change my mind on that. It's not the RNLI's job to pick and choose who they rescue. But I think politicians need to take action to avoid the RNLI being put in this position. That much I don't change my mind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭Dave0301


    Farage on defending the use of a racial slur against Chinese people:

    Defending one of Ukip’s candidates, who used the word “ch**ky” to describe a Chinese person, Mr Farage said:

    “If you and your mates were going out for a Chinese, what do you say you're going for?"

    When he was told by the presented that he “honestly would not” use the slur, Mr Farage replied: “A lot would”.

    I don't know...seems like he might be somewhat inclined to a bit of casual racism/xenophobia if you ask me.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What is the number one most racist or xenophobic thing Farage has ever said. I mean there should be dozens of examples, but just pick the juiciest one to illustrate? Maybe I'm thick but just educate me for a moment. I'm expecting the "election poster" will be the go-to play here, even though it's never been explained how exactly it is racist.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    True but the standard defence tactic is to just pretend that it isn't racist or xenophobic in the hopes that it'll go away. Of course it won't which is one reason why he had to stoop so low as to flogging clips on Cameo and is now a regular on a failed propaganda channel.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    People point out Diane Abbott is not the sharpest tool the in box, that gets labelled as racist as well. Even Trevor Phillips is racist apparently.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Farage didn't use the word, and said that he has never used it.

    A UKIP candidate from northern England used it. There, many refer to a Chinky as a Chinese restaurant. It's not meant in a hateful manner to cause offense to other people. Sometimes we shouldn't be so snobbish about how other people, perhaps from disadvantaged backgrounds, speak. Often, they don't know better and casually use phrases that others would deem offensive. But this person didn't go up to a Chinese person and racially abuse them. It's not a word I'd use either, but we can't bury our heads in the sand and pretend that people often use phrases but are well-intended. My username refers to an eskimo. Many also find that offensive. But I'm not using the term with intent to cause harm to others. Context matters.

    Remember, racist means: a person who is prejudiced against or antagonistic towards people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

    That definition matters. Deliberate hostility to another person/group on the basis of their membership of a racial group. In other words, you can have racially inappropriate language (like Eskimo) but it doesn't make the person a racist person.

    The candidate was, by the way, deselected as a candidate for UKIP.

    Again, Farage didn't say this.

    I asked you to find an example of a racist, xenophobic, hateful comment from Farage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭Dave0301


    Eskimohunt's assertion that Farage has never uttered a xenophobic statement is blatantly just not true. Trying to normalise the use of a racial slur is evidence of that. Not to mention stating that he would not want to live next door to Romanians, irrespective of any stats, it is xenophobic to tar an entire nationality with the same brush.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My God he is literally Hitler. Is that the best you can come up with?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭Dave0301


    Why did he try and defend it then instead of call it out for what it was? Also, just because a word is used "a lot" does not make it acceptable.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Obviously but that just the sort of defence a schoolchild would muster, ie just deny and ignore the evidence. He's smart enough to dogwhistle but it's obvious what he is.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭Dave0301


    Care to actually address the issue of why he didn't say it was wrong?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't defend the term "Chinky". I do think it's derogatory and a little bit insulting (just my view).


    However I do admire the way he stood up to the woke mob. Apologizing and sacking the guy would not make any difference. It's like giving a vial of blood to a vampire and saying "leave me alone".



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He said he has never used it, and wouldn't use it.

    He wasn't defending use of the comment, he was defending the fact that many people throughout northern communities harmlessly use the phrase because it is normal in their community. It doesn't make it ideal, but if you had a very deprived family who said to each other on a Friday night, "Let's go to the local Chinky", that's not harming anyone. It's certainly not said with hostility or racial hatred (the core part of the definition of racism). They're not saying it because they hate Chinese people. They're saying it because they want tasty food from an establishment they clearly love to have in the community.

    Is it the most appropriate language in the world? Perhaps not.

    But, again, let's not get so middle class snobbish about this.

    We don't live in this pristine world of black and white. There are shades of grey, too.

    Where is this example of Nigel Farage uttering a racially hateful comment? There must be thousands of examples.

    I just can't find them!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Here you go... I'm sure you'll say it's mild mannered though. Suspect this will be similar to you saying that Victor Orban is a pretty good leader though, just ignore the atrocious behaviour.




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    You really really seems to struggle with the idea that racism is possible outside of screaming into someone face directly.

    Would it be ok if people called Mexican restaurants "The Spics" ? or asked their friends if they fancied a "Wop" for dinner when they meant Italian food ??

    Calling a Chinese restaurant a "Chinky" perhaps isn't directly/overtly racist , but it is absolutely categorically ignorant , demeaning and directly undermines an entire culture.

    Are you ok with being called a "Paddy" or a "Mick" or is that ok because "it's just something that people say and they don't really mean anything by it" ?

    Because it's not ok and even if they don't consciously mean something by it , it absolutely means something (It means you are of lesser value than them , just like saying Chinky does)

    Just because "they don't know any better" isn't an excuse.

    People used to think that saying "f****t" or "poofter" etc. was ok - It isn't and never was , now thankfully the vast majority know better because they were called out on it.

    Think of objecting to the use of terms like "Chinky" as the "Broken windows policy" of avoiding structural racism. Stop the small seemingly innocuous stuff and hopefully you ward off the much worse stuff that might come later.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm not in favour of racially charged language. Neither is Farage, which is why Farage stated that this person was unsuitable to be a parliamentary candidate due to his "loutish" language.

    Farage was simply making the point that many people use terms without malicious intent. As you say, it doesn't make it right - but it doesn't make these people the worst racists on the planet. As per my example above, people "going for a Chinky" shows they favour Chinese establishments - not because they hate Chinese people. Should it be challenged? Yes. Is it the most appropriate language? No. Does it mean these people are hard-line racists who hate Chinese people? No, it doesn't.

    And it certainly doesn't make Farage the worst racist on the planet, either.

    If that's the best example of Farage "being a xenophobic racist", I'd hate to see the worst example.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not a Barbour jacket, no.

    He's referring to this style of coat.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭bewareofthedog


    A word like xenophobe is just cop out for pushing all the real problems in the UK associated with immigration under the carpet and pretending they don't exist. There is certainly a subset of out and out racists in the UK just like a lot of countries but the vast majority of UKIP voters when it was run by Farage had honest concerns and deem he/it were their best option. I'm not gonna go listing these problems one by one they're all well documented.

    Using words like xenophobe is the same childlike and somewhat bullying argumentive technique as using the word transphobe when questioning whether or not there is 100 different genders etc. Sorry to break it to you because I do believe that many people including some on this thread believe their own ideology is high and mighty and always right but the the reality is there are many valid counter arguments on certain subjects on the other side.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub



    Good to see that you are keeping up the tradition of entirely missing the point of the post you are replying to.

    Of course someone using the term "Chinky" is not automatically a hate filled racist , but using terms like that normalises a type of behaviour and helps shift the Overton window on what is considered acceptable language and activity.

    Just as a broken window isn't a major crime , but the message of lots of broken Windows is that nobody really cares about the place, then it becomes burnt out cars and so on and so on.

    Fix the windows , keep the place looking it's best and you create an environment that is conducive to better behaviour. Don't allow people to use disparaging terms even if said in a pseudo well meaning manner and it helps hold the line against a creep towards overt racism.

    I don't think Farage is a racist as I have already said - He is more than happy to dog-whistle to racists to further his agenda however.

    Farage is an old school imperialist - He believes that Britain has some God given right to be in charge of everything and the very idea of having to operate as equals with the French or Germans or indeed anyone else is incomprehensible to him, hence his vehement opposition to the EU.

    It has nothing to do with "Independence" and everything to do with "If we can't be in charge then we're not going to play anymore".



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Many on the Left cannot accept that there are valid counterarguments and genuine and honest concerns about migration.

    You mention trans- which is interesting, because as a gay person who does not identify as a member of the LGB-T community, I've been repeatedly called transphobic for making the argument that the T shouldn't be included in LGB-T because it has nothing to do with sexuality. We need to perform a swift excision of the T-, and the LGB side of the equation can get on with our lives without being tarred by association with gender identity politics.

    And thank goodness for GB News on this front, actually; the only channel that reasonably addresses the legitimate concerns on this question. I was watching Patrick Christys and Mercy Muroki this morning on this very issue. Colin Brazier was covering it last night. No other channel does. Instead, it's wall-to-wall uniform coverage and anyone who doesn't subscribe to gender extremism is tarred as a transphobe.

    As you say, it's childish and an immature reaction to genuine, honestly held concerns (even within the LGB-T community).



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    It's a crombie coat , really nothing to do with "turn of the century gentlemen"

    It was popularised in the 60's and 70's by Mods and Skinheads

    What was the message that Farage is trying to send here again???



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well, for curiosities' sake I just typed into Google, 'history of Nigel Farage's cultural coat', and this is what comes up first.

    Farage's garment is a variation on the covert coat, invented towards the end of the 19th Century, says Rob Blake, head of marketing at the British clothing manufacturer Crombie.


    Named after the French "couvert", meaning covered, it was designed to be worn when riding. From the late 19th Century, it became a staple of gentlemen's wardrobes. By the 1920s, the country set wore it at weekends and it became more or less a uniform among the racing fraternity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭bewareofthedog


    Chatham House Royal Institute of International Affairs which is a non partisan and respected think tank found that the majority of people in the EU want an outright ban on Muslim immigration. I'm not saying that I agree with that but you'd swear reading threads like this or the reaction to Trump's travel ban that it would be only 20% of residents who'd side with an opinion such as that. Some people really need to pull their head out of their arses and realize not everyone has the same belief system that they do. Certain posters will inevitably take the line that the majority of Europeans are xenophobes before admitting there are genuine concerns backed by fact and happenings which fuel such opinions.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's why I'm not concerned about being in the minority on this thread.

    I know the vast, vast majority of readers, and those sitting at home, agree with almost everything I'm saying.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Indeed and this is the image used in your linked article to show other examples of the coat in "culture"

    Two of the most famous "Cockney Wide-boys" in popular culture.

    Tell me - When a typical UKIP voter sees Farage in that coat , which image comes to their mind?

    Some unknown turn of the century gentleman or a pair of TV Cockneys famous for skirting the law and "pulling strokes" to make money?????

    Again - What message or alignment do you really think Farage was looking when he wore the coat campaigning for election in ESSEX???



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I very much doubt that Farage was consciously thinking of Only Fools and Horses when deciding what attire to don for campaigning purposes.

    I think my interpretation is, on balance, far more likely. And it doesn't fail to surprise me how many posters continue to get annoyed about his coat, too.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Ah yes, the silent majority trope. Surprised it took this long to see it. Amazed that this doesn't hold true for GB News though. Odd, that.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,654 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    Nobody is annoyed because nobody cares about some old coat you keep waffling on about 😂 But a lot of posters are laughing at the idea that you think it annoys or "triggers" people. Get a grip lad.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The statistics back it up.

    I'm sure you saw the statistics from the poster above on Islamic immigration into Europe. I agree with those statistics, and almost everyone I know holds the same view, too.

    Immigration was also the chief reason why the UK opted to Brexit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭The Raging Bile Duct


    I thought it was a coat made from a Union Jack flag the way he was going on about it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Statistics about people reading this thread? What statistics?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Ah right. Some random image with no context whatsoever.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    The UK always had control of their immigration policy, and currently enforce those controls.

    The only thing Brexit has done is prevent EU migration to the UK and vice versa. That is proving to be a disaster for Britain.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Would that be the statistic that saw the Tories only secure 43% of the vote?

    Brexit gives the UK no more or less control over Immigration than they had before , in fact arguably they now have less control as things like the Dublin agreement no longer apply to them.

    Some people might have voted for Brexit because of Immigration but it doesn't give them what they thought it would.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,947 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    It also, quite ironically prevents the UK from returning migrants to France or to their 1st country of entry in the EU.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Whether it's a disaster is neither here nor there, it's what they voted for in overwhelming number - 17.4 million.

    What's a disaster is what the French are doing, failing to prevent economic migrants from entering the English Channel to make that dangerous journey. As a direct consequence of their inaction, an economic migrant drowned yesterday. I predict that far more will drown unless the French stop their spiteful behaviour and ignoring British requests, and simply manage this problem for the safety of the migrants if anything else.



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