US and Nato withdrawal from Afghanistan...- threadbanned users in OP

That would make a great climatic movie scene but it's not reality. In the face of great odds all most people want to hunker down and survive for themselves and their families, not do a suicidal Rambo with a weapon they likely dont have to hand.

Sending their troops out to fight and possibly die in a never ending quagmire halfway around the world. What American doesnt want that?

The ending of one of the "forever wars" is a popular decision. Having the entire country virtually collapse to the opposition two weeks before your troops were due out is a less desirable outcome. Having to dangle the possibility of aid or international recognition isn't exactly a powerful indication of a super power's clout.

To be fair to the Yanks. Their original invasion was fully justified. A lot of people over the years (and especially this weekend) have been trying to whitewash 9/11, like they were not fully justified to go after the regime protecting Bin Laden.

They gave the Afghans 20 years to get their **** together and they didn't seem to want it. Society effectively wanted the Taliban back. If the Afghans didn't want the Taliban back they wouldn't have colluded with them for 2 decades and they most certainly would be putting up a fight to protect their towns and cities. But they cheer them in on their Toyota's, ready for the good times to come back.

As said in the thread, the Graveyard of Empires. The Soviet Union fell not too long after Afghanistan. The U.S is now a divisive mess, with China now the Big Boy in the Playground. I wonder will China ever have a pop. That would be interesting to see.

The president can only be as good as the advice he gets ultimately. If the joint chiefs told him a and b would happen how can he contradict?

At the end of the day the US can stay if it likes and smash the Taliban back but to what end?

Another 20 years trying to win hearts and minds?

Afghanistan has to evolve itself naturally. It is going back to the dark ages for now but the only hope is they can make progress and social change over time.

Yes. like dominoes,,,,if ever there was a case of "Be carefull of what you wish for, in case you get it " this is it !!! Now we will see how Iran Pakistan and Russia control a heavily armed and agressive neighbour.... I know its case of "What If" the Pashtuns on the Pakistan side decide to join in the success ( ?? ) of the Taliban, and decise to re-align the borders? On the Tajik side, Putin has sent military support to boost border defences,

Good post. No matter what people think of the US and it's decision to leave, the Afghan people had 20 years, billions of Dollars in aid, expert training and help from all over the world, in order for it to be able stand on its own and prosper. Still they chose corruption and being backward. This failure is their own making, nobody else's.

What and more important who, kept the Taliban active these last 20 years? Yes, Iran, Russia and Pakistan. In every clandestine way possible, they hit the Americans, a war by any other name. None of them wanted a stable and strong Afghanistan...now we will see how they deal with the Taliban, an organisation not associated with excessive use of the milk of human kindness.

The "Butterfly Munitions" you mention Gary,( cluster Bombs banned under the Geneva Conventions, but still in use by Countrys which did not signed the treaty) were dropped from a high flying aircraft in a "Mother" bomb, which was set to open at a predetermined height, dispersing hundreds of these mines /bombs all on little yellow parachutes, which gave them a greater spread. While the majority exploded on contacted, between 2%-20 % did not. They yellow color was meant to act as a warning and make them visible, but in a lot of cases attracted children with horrendous results. And even after the yellow fabric has disntegrated, the bomblets remain live, a simple action, such as casting a shadow on one, can cause them to explode. They kill / maim thousands of people every year, and not only in Afghanistan, but worldwide.

There were only two options. Stay in and delay the inevitable, or get out and face the inevitable. There was never anything to be salvaged from this at this stage regardless who was in office. Partisan critics will jump at the chance of course, but there was no right option, and not even a "least worse" option, both actions would have resulted in the same outcome.

The thing with China, they don't give a **** about how you run your country and have no problems with working with anyone as long as it benefits them. The Taliban will be told not to support the Uyghurs and they'll build them a road or a train line. I note the Taliban control the corridor between Afghanistan and China. A place they didn't Pre-2001.

The Taliban won't give a hoot about the Uyghurs. They want to control Afghanistan. Al Qaeda or ISIS may be different.

As I write this post, I'm getting an pop up saying there was an Earthquake in Northern Afghanistan. Fun times.

China won't get involved in running the place. Just extracting what they need.