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US and Nato withdrawal from Afghanistan...- threadbanned users in OP

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    #452
    Tyrone212
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Tyrone212


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758606#Comment_117758606

    Who actually said that? Sounds like bs. There's something wrong with them if they did.



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    #453
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,413 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117757962#Comment_117757962

    About 226 Irish personnel rotated through Afghanistan over fifteen years, normally seven at a time. Normally found in Kabul/HQ, for much of the time the Irish ran the counter-IED cell. That said, I ran across an NCO who worked with an Irish signals officer. Since the Irish ran the CIED cell for 12 of the 15, that gives three years they were doing something else entirely, even assuming that all seven personnel were exclusively in the CIED cell when it was under Irish administration.

    In the meantime, furthering the "There is no similarity between Kabul and Saigon" line, this is a photo of a Department of State helicopter over Kabul yesterday.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E82G-HYXoAAtvsL?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

    This is the exact same helicopter (by builder's serial number) as seen fourth from the camera in 1975, photo taken on a US carrier during the evacuation.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E82BA4BX0AA_nJn.png:large

    how the hell does one embed an image?



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    #454
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,760 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    To embed I think you press enter immediately after you paste the link and it does it automatically.



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    #455
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Wll we even know what happens now?

    https://twitter.com/mattczeller/status/1426958374722232321?s=19



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    #456
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758726#Comment_117758726

    No one representative of the Left actually says this. It's just a trope thrown out by some.



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    #457
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,760 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758743#Comment_117758743

    Woot? I never said any such thing 😡

    Apology accepted in advance.

    *you changed Kermit to some, ty



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    #458
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,335 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758208#Comment_117758208

    While this is true, they also don't want endless outside occupations either. In the last 40 years, 30 of them has involved a foreign power calling the shots and absolute chaos reigning. It's ironic, but under the Taliban in the 90's, Afghanistan has had its most stable period. They may well not be exactly what every "Afghan wants", but at least they are being ruled by "their own" as it were, i.e. a Pashtun lead group interested in Sharia, as harsh as their interpretation of may well be.

    To be perfectly honest, that is more than likely the reason why the Taliban has swept through the country like a knife through melted butter. They aren't meeting any resistance, because there is very little to meet.

    Post edited by Tony EH on


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    #459
    ziggyman17
    Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭ziggyman17


    could Biden not have stalled the army from leaving ? very bad move on his part........



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    #460
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,639 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Astonishing just how quickly the ANA folded.

    20 years and all those billions upon billions of dollars, and they simply disintegrated almost instantly.



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    #461
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,679 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Well now... looks like The president and Afghan army are less than useless



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    #462
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmreire


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758543#Comment_117758543

    They have stayed Toby, because they could not run...no choice, and the ones who did run, had good reason to run. Be interesting to see in the next few weeks how the information flow develops.



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    #463
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758758#Comment_117758758

    They could have easily sent the drones in or at least have some planes fly overhead as a warning to slow them down. Everything should have been about slowing them down.

    Makes me think that some people wanted this to happen.



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    #464
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,760 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758758#Comment_117758758

    So far it does not seem to be high on the agenda for ordinary people in the US but if there were to be some sort of Saigon type imagery that would be seriously damaging to the Biden administration.

    It may yet turn out to be very damaging regardless or people might just be happy to leave and not spending all that money.



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    #465
    Relax brah
    Registered Users Posts: 803 ✭✭✭Relax brah


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117757482#Comment_117757482

    Bearded nut jobs?

    You clearly don’t understand that country or the talibans capability. If they fight back they will be infiltrated with suicide bombers and innocents will die quickly.

    They aren’t fighting against the Taliban army, they are fighting against an ideology. Two very different things



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    #466
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758790#Comment_117758790

    They had b52s and gunships carrying out strikes ,it seem to be a case of to wide of a front to make much of a difference ,

    The worse part they were traveling in convoys which should have made it easier to target too

    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #467
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758756#Comment_117758756

    It was never stable under the Taliban they essentially closed the country to foreigners and those who did ventured in were caught and killed,

    Hence why it could be construed it was stable there was little of no information about what was going ok on the country coming out ,

    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #468
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758746#Comment_117758746

    My apologies Kermit, I misread the post and then corrected.



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    #469
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmreire


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758539#Comment_117758539

    I'll repeat it again Nullzero, Its not the will of the majority of Afghans to be ruled by the Taliban...I lived there, and trust me, the last thing Afghans want to see is a return of the Taliban. They ( Taliban) steamrolled over the Country, flattening all opposition ( to coin a phrase) Object, resist, get flattened. Cheer and put on the welcoming smile, survive. And thats what is happening. Free choice does not enter into it on any level. The best that can be hoped for is that the 20 years of freedom they had while the US was there, will bear fruit, and when disillusionment with Taliban rule will generate sufficient Nrs. to develop a resistance. Last time they were outed, the roads to Kandahar were littered with burnt out Taliban vehicles, and bodies. Farewell gift from the local population.



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    #470
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,335 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758845#Comment_117758845

    Compared to what they've had for the majority of the last 40 years, which was either the chaos or outside occupation, that unfortunately constitutes the "most stable" that the region has had.

    I wouldn't try and interpret that as a democracy or anything.

    In any case the fact of the matter is that the Taliban are now installing themselves with the greatest of ease all over the country, because the majority of Afghans don't seem to want to resist their rule.



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    #471
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758756#Comment_117758756

    The re-installation of the Taliban, with its consequent creation of hundreds of thousands of refugees, is anything but "stable".

    This is fascism with Islamic overtones; an inherently unstable position.



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    #472
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758803#Comment_117758803

    The Internet provides...

    https://twitter.com/soundmigration/status/1426898869116407810?s=19



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    #473
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So, the obvious question is 'Where is the MIC off to next?' They never sleep. Contracts to sign. Public money to exchange into private hands.

    20+ US military vets commit suicide every day. The first victims of the MIC are American citizens... most of them poor kids, many of whom joined the military so that they would to have a chance to go to college that they wouldn't otherwise have had.

    D.C. is full of sick puppies, but that's not news...



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    #474
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    When I heard Biden saying a while back, that US forces would have left Afghanistan by September 11, I immediately thought how arrogant it seemed.

    Choosing a certain date in advance, purely for optics, rather than following a carefully thought out roadmap... The guy is an idiot. And must surely have ignored expert advice.



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    #475
    Tyrone212
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Tyrone212


    Lots of Afghans fled to kabul in recent times to escape the taliban. Then Kabul was quickly isolated on all sides. It all happened so fast. If they try to escape to Pakistan now they run this risk of being killed I imagine.



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    #476
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmreire


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758729#Comment_117758729

    Wonder was there much US equipment etc. left in KAD?



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    #477
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758893#Comment_117758893

    Will the Taliban allow refugees to leave, do you think? They seem to want to court international recognition to some extent.

    There's also thr question of how tightly they can control their own fighters and warlords. Could they splinter and start fighting amongst themselves?



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    #478
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,335 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758888#Comment_117758888

    They've had a skeleton crew fighting an unwinnable war against a guerilla outfit and they've never won the "hearts and minds" of the Afghan people. America's presence there has been a busted flush since Bush launched his oil war in Iraq a year after invading Afghanistan and left it to fester.

    There was never going to be an easy answer here. Do they stay and eventually lose? Do they ramp up military presence? Or do they just get out now?

    All the alternatives were probably going to end up leading to an embarrassing conclusion, no matter who was in the Whitehouse.



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    #479
    Tyrone212
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Tyrone212


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758888#Comment_117758888

    American intelligence has been shocking as well. Thinking kabul could stand a year, to 90 days, to 30 days to none in a matter of days.

    Surely they should have based their policy off of the worst case scenario (what happened) to cover all bases instead of this **** show at the airport now.

    They should have evacuated all the Afghans who helped them well in advance of their military leaving. So many are left behind now to die.

    America has abandoned the Kurds and the Afghans who helped them in no time. Why would anyone want to help them again.



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    #480
    Jeff2
    Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭Jeff2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758900#Comment_117758900

    On twitter shows they have got loads of equipment and even 6 drones.



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    #481
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    There's nowhere really to go this time for the fleers. Before there was the pocket up north that was occupied by the alliance. Now they have full control. Kabul is surrounded. If there is a male of fighting age in a car or a truck there will be questions of why they are fleeing. Are you ex army or police? Did you work with the Americans? A lot the army around the border areas did a legger up to the Stans.

    If there is ex army in Kabul they are goosed. There will be tons of informants looking to curry favour with the new power holders.

    You can see why the Afghans were so hesitatant to work with the Nato forces. They knew the day of Reckoning would arrive.



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