Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Murder at the Cottage | Sky

Options
1122123125127128350

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    He was supposed to have the story in on the morning of the 23rd, between 10 and 10.30 am. He claims the first he heard of the murder was around 1.40pm. Unless he had a premonition that the biggest story he would ever cover in Ireland was about to break a few hours later then his explanations for the delay in getting the story in make no sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    Any journalist or writer would type up an article for onwards dictation. It allows for it to be checked over again. Handwritten stories usually have many notes written in sidelines.

    I do a lot of speaking. All speeches are handwritten, then checked, things added, things deleted, rewritten and then put in a document on the PC. I know other speakers who do it the exact same way. And I know news contributors that do it that way too. It's how it has always been done, And I would suspect 1996 was no different.

    Reading your posts, you try every possible slant to try and convince yourself it was IB. You ignore context in almost everything. It like you are blind to the obvious, or just don't want to see what is in front of you.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Irish Times article I linked says the story was faxed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    You sound like an organised and efficient type of person. How many times have you come home from the pub and went to bed knowing you had a deadline first thing in the morning but had not even started writing it? Let's say this did happen to you, you've arrived home with a few drinks on you, you've gone to bed but then you remember the story the paper is expecting at 10am. Are you going to go down a dark public road to a cold, unheated house to then type it up under the cover of darkness?

    IB kept a regular journal, there's lots of pictures of them available, he seems quite fluent in his words and knows what he wants to say, there's relatively few corrections or notes in his poetry and prose drafts.

    Do you not think it's you who has completely ignored all of this context to give an anecdotal account of what any normal, efficient and hardworking person would do?

    Post edited by MoonUnit75 on


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "He was supposed to have the story in on the morning of the 23rd, between 10 and 10.30 am."

     10:30 Mon. deadline for a Sunday paper?



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    MoonUnit. You are the world's leading expert on the case. When did Alfie Lyons move to Dreenane?

    This is the Land Registry certificate. He bought two years after Sophie.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    I know very little about Alfie Lyons or his property dealings, sorry.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Pretty much all the accounts I read say the staff were due to finish for the Christmas holidays either the 23rd or the 24th so it doesn't seem surprising that they would want a relatively unimportant feature about internet cafés, or something like that, ready to go as early as possible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Massive Berevement


    Apologies if this has been covered already but it strikes me as strange that Alfies wife is the one who finds the body at 10am or later (hope i'm correct with the time) on that Monday morning. It's a Monday two days before Christmas so you'd expect the postman to have been up that way before then, especially considering at least one of the houses was occupied permenently. What about a milk delivery or newspaper delivery even?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭mossie


    Postman in a rural area at Christmas would probably be running a lot later than normal and many rural areas don't have milk / newspaper deliveries. I grew up in a less isolated rural area and we never had these.



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    You don't find it curious in the French documentary he had an elaborate story about how he was advising Sophie when she moved in, showing her around the house, advising her about tradesmen, when on available evidence it could not have happened?



  • Registered Users Posts: 838 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    I can't really see any significance to this slight anomaly Edhoven, ....am I missing something?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭Deeec




  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭drumm23


    Some dodgy Garda from Bantry who had a fluorescent blue fiesta................😮


    Nah, it was about the internet or something along those lines; can you imagine the guff he was writing 😆



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,348 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    A white-hot new trend called 'Internet cafes'...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    From the DPP file

    "8. Bailey states that it is not unusual for him to get up during the night but on

    this occasion he had to get up because he had a story to write for the

    Sunday Tribune and it had to be submitted on Monday 23 December

    1996.


    9. He states that this was a very difficult story because it was about

    computers and he found it difficult to write 900 words on this subject

    which had to refer to computer language etc.


    He states that he hand wrote the story in the kitchen of Jules' house and

    then between 7.00 and 8.00 a.m. as dawn was approaching, the first light

    of the day was beginning to show, he went to type it below in the studio.

    He says that he had to fax the story as he could not dictate it. Normally

    he dictates his story by telephone."



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    This could have been verified if the Gardaí had done so at the time.

    If he created a document on his computer it would retain the time created in the document properties, assuming once created he wouldn't need to change it.

    And if he printed the document out there may be a record on the PC time-stamping when the document was sent to the printer.

    If I was interested in him as a suspect, surely I would confiscate his computer and check these kinds of things. Haven't heard whether they did or not though.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭flanna01


    I would suggest the postman had more drink on him than Bailey had the night before...

    It was quite common for the rural folks to pour a shot of whiskey for the postman around Christmas time, in fact, it would be frowned upon if you didn't.

    I remember 25yrs ago, our postie was blotto on the armchair with his van full of Christmas post outside the front gate.... When he eventually roused from his intoxicated slumber, he stated that was just what the Doctor ordered (a nap / falling unconscious), as his next call poured almighty measures of the good shtuff.....

    So Bailey remembering what his movements were after a bender would be sketchy at best. Given that he was drinking till the small hours (I read somewhere Jules saying they were in a lock in that night), I doubt very much that Bailey could remember most, if anything of the previous 24hrs.

    If you accept that Bailey is an alcoholic (granted, a functioning alcoholic), you also have to accept that his account of his movements on any given day are subject to variables depending on how much he consumed within the previous 12/24hrs.

    He drinks wine like its blackcurrant cordial.

    I'm guessing that Bailey was relaying a typical night after drinking heavily - Get mangled, go home, pour a couple of night caps, head up the stairs.... goodnight vienna!

    Jules recalls him getting up during the night.... Bailey has to ponder what the f*ck he got up for... Oh yeah, to write a piece on computers or something, but can also pour a few shots of something too...

    Alcoholics are the same as any other addict, they'll do anything to get another shot of liquor. I suggest that was what was driving him more that some French bird who was probably in bed anyway, a couple of miles away over the bleak moors of West Cork.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    I don't know when Alfie moved there. He may have rented before he bought. But if he did not it means he was lying in the French documentary portraying himself as a friend of Sophie.

    IB is posting on Twitter that Alfie was busted in 1997 for growing cannabis. And as we all know Leo Bolger was subsequently prosecuted for the same offence.

    Pair of charmers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭flanna01



    The deeper you look into the shenanigans going on around the time of the murder, the more obvious multiple lines of enquiry become ....

    There is a self confessed person driving around the roads near the murder scene at an ungodly hour of the morning. The same person contacts the Gards stating she seen a man down by the bridge the same night, but will not divulge the identity of the male she was with during the killing hours. (That makes at least two people in the area at the time of the murder)

    You have Alfie Lyons - Schull's answer to breaking bad doing his thing next door.

    You have the young buck looking at a long sentence for drugs related offences, who magically provides details of a Bailey confession as his charges evaporate into thin air..

    Strikes me as odd.... Alfie Lyons and his woman were minding a dog (s), yet neither one of them, nor their mutt heard the commotion going on outside right beside them... Nearly as strange as half the parish reporting their hounds acting queer around the same time in the early hours..

    Mr. Blue Fiesta - Where was he racing to, or more like, racing from..?

    Why pinpoint Bailey as their prime suspect? There are plenty more people of interest to persue before him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    🤣 Organised and efficient type? - I just showed this to my wife and she's still laughing.


    I am dis-organised, a very very messy fecker and will leave things to the last minute. But I know which bundle of crap things are in. And yes, if I'm doing a speech the next day or doing a MC event, I can get up at 1am and double check element that I suddenly had thought I forgot and have done so as recently as last Friday.

    And its the same for others especially when it is close to a deadline. I've two event in the next 7 days and haven't even started yet, so I know I'll wake with sweats on Thursday night. - But funny, it all turns out fine in the end.

    And if the gardai or anyone else checked with a few other writers, you will be sure they will find the exact same process in most of them. Its the adrenaline and the fact that you are putting your name on it and if its not good, you may not get the next gig.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    as this is the dregs now.

    The postman (and back then it was only men) would have to have something to deliver first. It was 23rd Dec. At that stage the amount of post has dwindled to very little as volumes tail off dramatically just before Christmas.


    And as someone said, local postie would be getting a little tipple here and there and Christmas chats and of course a card and probably a tenner enclosed from many of the rural dwellers. Would probably be late afternoon before he got there, if he had anything to deliver.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Right, but when was the last time you waited to begin an article/speech/presentation until a couple of hours before the deadline, then begin after getting home from the pub, write it out in the early hours and then type it up in a house down the road, miss the deadline anyway, read it out over the phone the following day and then forget any of this ever happened for a few weeks?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    Not in the last 18 months as the pubs have been closed. 😀 But sometimes I don't really get into the mode and the event comes right at you and the writing is done on the day itself. Doesn't happen often, but has happened and more frequently that I'd like to admit especially if its something you really can't be bothered to do. - And I just do this as a hobby so no more than 15-20 engagements in a year.

    I drink very little, so put same scenario to someone that drinks regularly and add in the Christmas season and I (and anyone that does speech writing or article writing) certainly would see this a not just very plausible, but possibly something they've done themselves on several occasions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    I find your contention that this is not just plausible but possibly a usual occurrence, implausible. IB was not exactly worked off his feet writing articles, he seems to have had very sporadic and scattered articles appearing in local papers. You think it's plausible he forgot the entire fiasco around a drunkenly written article written in the dead of night for a national newspaper, then having to explain why you need another 24 hours to get it in after they contact you to say the deadline is passed? Not only that, but your partner forgot to mention any of this either, even though they would later say how delighted he was with what he wrote when showing it to them the next morning?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    sorry if my personal experience is not plausible in your world. But looks like nothing that goes against your one tract thought process is plausible. That's the way the gardai acted too and I assure you, some gardai still act.

    Good luck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    There is a self confessed person driving around the roads near the murder scene at an ungodly hour of the morning. The same person contacts the Gards stating she seen a man down by the bridge the same night, but will not divulge the identity of the male she was with during the killing hours. (That makes at least two people in the area at the time of the murder)

    Why would she put herself near the scene of the crime willingly to gardai if there was any possibility of being linked to it?

    You have Alfie Lyons - Schull's answer to breaking bad doing his thing next door.

    You have the young buck looking at a long sentence for drugs related offences, who magically provides details of a Bailey confession as his charges evaporate into thin air..

    Lots of people growing 'medicinal plants' around the area at that time, probably still now. There's no indication that any of this was known by Sophie or that she was bothered by it, she brought her young teenage son to the place regularly.

    Leo Bolger did not provide a 'Bailey confession', he said he saw Bailey being introduced to Sophie. This has no great value in a prosecution, Judge Moran had already accepted Alfie Lyons' testimony that he had introduced him. Leo's statement came almost 10 years after the DPP had officially shelved the case. It gives no significant advantage to the gardai, a 'trade' of suspended sentence for a very minor and inconsequential statement seems very far-fetched. Maybe when Leo provides a statement that he saw a blood-drenched, dark coat-wearing man about 6 foot tall throwing an axe into the sea while shouting poetry, we can seriously consider a conspiracy.

    Mr. Blue Fiesta - Where was he racing to, or more like, racing from..?

    No evidence yet provided that this man or his car ever existed, or that a statement making that claim is in the garda file. Happy to discuss it when we know its more than a convenient rumour.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    I get the impression if he had said he gave it to a passing Saudi tribesman to deliver to the post office by camel someone would be on here saying they know someone that happened to several times.



This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement