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New Alternative News Channel "GB News" chaired by Andrew Neil launching - read OP before posting

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    I'm a teacher in a secondary school and I have no idea what mission creep you are referring to.

    I do know education and school life is magnitudes better than I experienced in the 80s. Society has got significantly better and fairer throughout my lifetime.

    As for treating society as a "set of individuals" were you not claiming that Muslims were a bad fit for Ireland. How is that treating them as individuals. You were lumping them together as an undesirable homogeneous group. Certainly not individuals.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well, you have to zoom out a bit more.

    If you mean individuals as in a world of individuals, that's not my view. That's not conservatism. The conservative believes in the existence and value of the nation-state and the responsibility of the individual within that structure. That nation-state is endowed with certain values that have been developed and fostered by that population of individuals.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I've worked in two British universities and collaborated with researchers all over the country and I agree. The whole woke thing is just the new right wing phantasm we should be scared off because that way we won't ask difficult questions about things like wealth inequality, climate change and institutional racism. Conservative incompetence means it'll fail but they have to try regardless.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,122 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    So you are a devout believer in labeling people, dividing people, judging people on those labels.

    You are the biggest believer in identity politics on this thread.

    And I really don't understand how you can talk about a nations values and at the same time go on about the UK all the time. You understand that by your own beliefs you should not be trying to impart the foreign UK politics on to Ireland. In fact you should stay out of UK politics altogether as it is the business of the UK people only



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭KildareP


    NI is still bound to EU rules for excise duties, as they are for VAT rules on goods (not services). Anything arriving from GB into NI is subject to these checks and processes.

    With currency differences you have to exchange it as some point where it will be subject to usual money laundering checks and ROI is a little different from the rest of the EU when it comes to immigration by virtue the fact it's not a member of Schengen but we still maintain full freedom of movement within the Schengen area which a UK passport holder does not.

    You cannot effectively control infectious diseases amongst livestock at a soft border, you cannot check for substandard or unsafe products at a soft border, you cannot check for mixed-origin or multi-drop shipments at a soft border, it becomes very difficult to track tariffs on product categories subject to weight or volume quotas at a soft border.

    It is correct that the EU does not wish to erect a hard border because it remains committed to the GFA.

    The UK (seemingly) also did not wish to erect a hard border on the island of Ireland because it too claims it is committed to the GFA.

    However it is quite apparent that they are not happy for the border to be in the Irish Sea but they know that the border has to go somewhere (and make no mistake, they want a border with the EU - that was one of the underpinning reasons behind Brexit) and their endgame is to see it put on the island of Ireland, or more preferably (and certainly the preferred method in the case of Mr Farage) to be put around both the islands of Ireland and Great Britain by means of an Irexit.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,213 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The fundamental central tenet of conservatism is a resistance to change - They want uniformity , they want "tradition" , they do not like new or different.

    That has been leveraged into fear and hated by large swathes of conservative political operatives the world over , playing on peoples fear of change for their own nefarious ends.

    In the UK that is seen in the echoing back to "The Empire" in the Brexit campaign and in the US is this blurry-eyed harkening back to '50's Americana of white picket fences and well paying Production line jobs in Factories.

    However both gloss over the fact that "The Empire" and 1950's America were actually pretty damn horrible for a very significant number of people and places.

    And when challenged about these issues, Conservatives lose their minds and rail about "Cancel culture" and how "the left hate their countries".

    That can be clearly seen in the current Critical Race theory fight in the US and in the "Remoaners hate Britain" diatribe in the UK.

    Current, modern conservatives repeatedly show themselves to be utterly incapable of mature measured reflection.

    American Conservatives are incapable of looking at their past and seeing the faults alongside the positives - Anyone suggesting that the US is anything less than perfect is labelled an anti-American communist.

    See the exact same in the UK where any attempt to shine a light on past failings is attacked for being un-patriotic and accusations of attempting to "cancel" the right and being "woke".



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's not in any way a conservatism I recognize.

    Conservatism is a vast cathedral of ideas. It cannot be reduced to a handful of partisan soundbites.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,947 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    But every point of opposition to your "vast cathedral" can be?

    Interesting that...Don't you think?

    Your vast cathedral has more in common with tent. Actually a tattered circus tent. Most people show up for the big draw, the elephants the lions and so on...

    Only thanks to modernity and animal rights they are disappearing. Now the main draw are the clowns, but they aren't particularly original and repeating the same tricks and jokes over and over is wearing thin and the people buying tickets for the show are hoping for some new tricks...

    But the ringmaster just keeps renaming old ones and all the while the big tent is being torn, tattered and faded.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    You keep saying there's a vast cathedral of ideas and yet fail to elaborate. Odd given that a cathedral is a very unusual metric to measure the amount of conservative ideas you allege exist but cannot enunciate.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,213 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Well - As you have shown repeatedly throughout this thread your ability to recognise facts and reality is severely limited.

    Conservatism HAS been reduced to this - The evidence is overwhelming.

    • Conservatives do not like change
      • See reaction to LGBTQ Rights
      • See reaction Increasing womens rights
      • See reaction to changing demographics
    • Conservatives are incapable of objective reflection or taking onboard criticism
      • See reaction to CRT in US
      • See reaction to any request to explain/resolve the challenges of Brexit
      • See reaction to any attempt to discuss the negative impact of the British Empire.

    Outside of the above , the only thing that Conservatives are interested in is obtaining and holding on to Power. As you said yourself earlier , it's not about majorities or being popular.

    It's about winning and then making sure that the other side can never win again.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In an earlier post, I did.

    There's everything from classical liberalism to fiscal conservatism. Religious conservatism, social conservatism, and authoritarian conservatism. You could also include progressive conservatism and libertarian conservatism. There's many more, too, but you've asked for an enunciation and enunciation I've given.

    One may subscribe to tenets of one of these theories and not others. One may subscribe to a lot of one theory, and some of another. One may be a libertarian conservative who rejects religious conservatism. The list goes on.

    But the one sure certainty is this: that to reduce the above, with all the centuries of theory and practice that goes with it, to partisan soundbites says a lot more about the reductionist than it does about the conservative.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    You've just placed a load of words before the word "conservatism", ie buzz words with no meaning whatsoever. This is what you did before and all these things can be easily seen for what they are - base hypocrisy and venality.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,213 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    All of those technically exist in books on Political theory , but they don't practically exist within the power structures of Conservative movements today.

    "Modern" conservatism has become exactly how I have described it - At best it's curmudgeonly old gits stubbornly refusing to accept that the world moves on , at it's worst it's what we see in the US with the unvarnished bile and hatred being displayed by large swathes of the GOP and MAGA movements.

    It would be great if the rose tinted version of Conservatism you yearn for still existed in a form where it might influence things , but it simply doesn't.

    It's been completely subsumed by individuals whos sole interest is maintaining their version of the status quo with them in exclusive control.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You seem very interested in the rights of women and LGB-T people when it comes to trashing Conservatives, but said nothing about these rights when I introduced the thought experiment of 1.5 million Somalians moving to Ireland - most of whom hold precisely the same views. 95pc of Egyptians, according to Pew polling, want homosexuality illegal. Not gay marriage, homosexuality itself.

    In many respects, even worse views on women's rights.

    With this in mind, are you willing to re-visit the thought experiment?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Indeed, I remember various threads on this site years ago about the "alt-right". They stopped for the simple reason that the alt-right took over mainstream conservative thought.

    If conservatives in the traditional sense had any principles, they'd have stood up to this nonsense instead of trying to use it for personal gain. But then, it's been several decades since conservatism had any sort of real principles that didn't involve supping at the taxpayer's trough.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Also, it's a distortion of history to argue that Brexit is a right-wing phenomenon.

    Many on the left, including the far-left, have argued against the European Union. Tony Benn was one of many great left-wing advocates of Brexit. Let's not distort history to suit one's agenda.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,122 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Your thought experiment is a load of BS in fairness.

    It's an utterly stupid question based on completely ludicrous figures and trying to give it a scientific name doesn't hide the fact that it is a load of crap.

    Were you not a few pages back crying about people derailing the thread and vowing to stay on topic ?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,213 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    In your thought experiment you seem to think that the transfer of ideas and opinions is only in one direction.

    That people coming from one society to another will not adapt and they will simply enforce their current viewpoint & behaviours on to their new environment.

    When Irish people emigrate to the US or Australia or whatever , do they adhere rigidly to their opinions and behaviours and not take onboard ANYTHING from their new environment, or do they become progressively more and more like those around them in their new country?

    Do you not accept that the Somalian in your example will have to adapt when coming to a new culture and will more than likely move closer to the "norms" of their new society over time??

    Your thought experiment assume that the square peg when presented with the round hole will simply make the hole square when in reality the corners will get shaved off the peg as it settles into its new position.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    So one guy in the seventies is your evidence that the 2016 Brexit vote is not a right project. That'd be about par for the course alright.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,429 ✭✭✭Morgans


    Thinking that Tony Benn and Jacob Rees Mogg/Farage or any of the ERG advocating the leaving of the EU for the same reasons is a distortion of history. To be honest, I'm not sure why anyone continues to indulge you in what has become your own private boards forum.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The fact that 52pc of British Muslims still want homosexuality illegal, when they have been living in the UK for generations, suggests that 1.5 million Somalians will not assimilate in the way that you and I would hope. Even if it were half that value, it would be far too high.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Did someone poll the millions of British Muslims or just a few hundred? Did you read the poll or just get the catchy headline for yet another little off topic rant?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,213 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    And?

    Is it illegal in the UK , have any laws changed?

    If there was a "thought experiment" vote in Ireland to gauge support for laws on Homosexuality being repealed in Ireland , I'd be confident that there'd be a solid 25-30% in favour of their repeal , made up of conservative Catholics and probably conservative Muslims too.

    But it doesn't matter , because 70-75% would vote to keep things as they are.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's true that I sourced my information on the polling from that ultimate bastion of right-wing conservatism, The Guardian.

    However, when asked to what extent they agreed or disagreed that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, 18% said they agreed and 52% said they disagreed, compared with 5% among the public at large who disagreed.

    So, @Quin_Dub's contention is simply false that a significant minority of 30pc in the general population would have it illegalized, too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,947 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    That's not sourcing a poll tho. That's taking a sound bite extrapolated from a poll that I've not actually seen you link to.

    The actual poll, with the polling data, model and statistical breakdown.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Details are included therein, hence why I linked.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    More scaremongering nonsense. Same-sex marriage is here to stay despite your attempts at scaremongering and fawning over notorious homophobe Anne Widdecombe.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'd be against 1.5 million Anne Widdecombe's from marching on Ireland for precisely the same reason, to preserve the social attitudes our society has gained.

    And that polling data wasn't attitudes to same-sex marriage, it was the attitude that homosexuality itself should be illegal.

    We agree then, that we don't want these regressive views in our country - irrespective of whether these views come from Anne Widdecombe or 1.5 million Somalians.

    Our views are far more aligned than you think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,947 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Nope, they aren't you know.

    There are of course headline numbers included from the poll and even the name of the pollsters and the programme the poll was carried out for.

    But no link to the poll or the actual polling data. If you are going to seek to rely on polling data to make a point? It is a point of good order and honest debate that you provide the data. Not 2nd hand reporting or cherry picking as you are wont to do.

    Further reliance on a poll that's over 5yrs old isn't exactly lending any credence to your point.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,592 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    So why did you trumpet Widdecombes appearance on GBN then, if you (now) oppose her so?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Why do you keep parroting this nonsense about 1.5 million Anne Widdecombes or whatever? You can't fawn over one homophobe while pretending to be concerned about it when you attribute it to a certain demographic. That's just more conservative bigotry and hypocrisy so no, we are not in agreement.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,451 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    How do you know that the British Muslims polled in this poll you keep quoting had been in the UK for generations?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,213 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    And even if they were, despite all these "concerns" none of the prevailing laws have changed as a result of their beliefs or their presence.

    Yet more scaremongering of the "other".

    Blaming others for anything and everything despite the reality being the complete opposite.

    UK Government blaming the EU for everything when virtually everything they complain about is as a result of their own action/inaction.

    US GOP blaming the current Covid surge on Border immigration when the reality is that it is 100% the fault of their unvaccinated wingnut supporters.

    It never ever changes - Accept no responsibility for anything bad and find a "foreign" or "different" scapegoat to hang the blame on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,536 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    All this talk about the merits or otherwise of modern conservatism is fine but why don't we talk about the continuing drop in tv viewership for GBNews? a lot of their shows seem to getting in the single 1000s range.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We did, yesterday.

    A slight 4pc drop in viewing figures compared to last week; with 2.4 million views on the week compared to the previous week.

    Worth noting that there are 216,000 subscribers on YouTube, with almost 21 million views amassed to date.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,294 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    It's not worth noting the Youtube views. They're a broadcast channel, not Youtubers.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,213 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Because to discuss it in good faith would require an acceptance that the views espoused are simply not main-stream , are not really of interest to the vast majority of people and simply not important.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,655 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    216,000 subscribers but only 620 odd people watching


    That's 0.2% of thier so called subscribers watching 🤣




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,122 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    But then why are you forever on about the amazing GBnews and Farage both of whom would be considered foreign influences to the "social attitudes our society has gained" here in Ireland.

    You are very biased about which foreigners are allowed influence societies



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Because they know GB News is failing so we have to talk about 1.5 millions Somalians in Denmark or whatever to deflect from the fact that a glorified trolling operation that everyone knew would fail is failing for the simple reason that nobody wants to watch it:

    But while it may seem that Mr. Farage has managed to reignite GB News from its dimming embers, this is not the case.

    Average viewing figures posted on August 13 show he failed to match up to the BBC last week.


    When Farage started at 7pm on August 12, 64,000 viewers had tuned in, while 114,000 people watched Outside Source on the BBC News Channel.


    The figures also show GB News is still losing viewers, with the average number of people tuning in having dropped by more than 20,000 per day since its debut in June.

    When GB News recorded its lowest totals last week, BBC News recorded its highest.

    On Friday, the channel managed to attract more than four times that of its competitor.

    The channel managed to reach 101,000 on August 12, according to the figures.

    And Sky was just behind on 62,000 on the same day, its highest total that week.


    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1477575/GB-News-viewing-figures-Nigel-Farage-impact-BBC-Sky-News-evg

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nigel Farage is not in favour of making homosexuality illegal, that's for sure!




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,213 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    No - But he would like Ireland to rejoin the UK and the Empire to help bring back "Great" Britain.

    So there's that..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,122 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    That's great he happens to support the minority that you are. Fk all the rest of the minorities though.

    But you dodged my point again. He is a foreigner and therefore you should not promote him here as his beliefs run contrary to the beliefs Ireland has as a society.

    You are against foreign influence in Irish society so you should therefore be against people promoting Farage and his views in Ireland



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's missing the point, though.

    How women and LGB-T are treated in Afghanistan and Somalia is on a vastly different scale compared to what Farage believes.

    If Farage believed in illegalizing homosexuality; sympathized with suicide bombing; supported limitations on the rights of women in terms of education, freedom of movement, marriage, and inheritance; and supported chopping people's hands off etc., then you might have the ghost of a point.

    He doesn't believe any of the above. He has never uttered a word against women's rights, and has openly condemned illegalizing LGBT in the video above.

    Whilst there may be political differences between you and Farage, I genuinely don't think comparing Farage with a Somalian is helpful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,122 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I never compared him to a Somalian. I'm not the one does the wild comparisons around here Rashford hater.



  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    From what I can see based on those that use it, it's a term thrown around when having a tantrum because unlike them, the majority (be it vocal or silent type) have their full mental facilities, a bit of human compassion, aren't out and out dicks and can actually argue a point in good faith.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭AllForIt




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    You might want to have a look at the various rape and death threats Phillips has received from common sense conservatives. Common sense conservatives have also mandated harsher sentencing for people defacing statues than raping women. The white utopia they're hankering for isn't something I find appealing.

    I've always found this weird paranoia with conservative Muslims from right wingers odd since they're clearly perfect bedfellows.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    On tonight's edition of Farage, Nigel is going to smash Jacinda Ardern COVID-19 actions based on just a single case.

    The Talking Pints guest is yet to be announced, though.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,655 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    He's not going to "smash" anything, he's going to give his opinion on something, a decision that was made by the leader of New Zealand, a decision he will never be in a position where he has to make it.


    Fine to whinge and cry about something from the sidelines, he's like the drunk bloke in the pub shouting at the telly and screaming about what a footballer/manager should have done.


    Which wife beater, racist, bigot will he have on talking shìte? No one knows, no one cares 🤷‍♂️



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