US and Nato withdrawal from Afghanistan...- threadbanned users in OP

I'm sure the Taliban will have a big victory party planned for the 11th of September

Will they be able to resist having it in the (former) US embassy?

Why has Afghanistan all of a sudden caught the imagination?

People have been dying there in their thousands for twenty years and it wasn't ever a worry for most people.

The taliban have come to power in a what can only be described as an extremely peacefully manner considering how quickly they have taken over yet everyone is up in arms about it.

The deaths in the last few days are not directly attributable to the taliban and they have agreed not to harbour terrorists anymore.

How was the US suppose to know the Afghan forces would just give up? They armed them to the teeth and they put up zero fight. This notion that it was a sudden withdrawl is bollox too, the numbers of soldiers has been dwindling for years in Afghanistan, throughout Trumps administration. People up in arms about it, this outcome was inevitable.

It's the entirety of their conquest that is shocking too. They control regions that were out of their hands twenty years ago.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, nor can you create a nation state out of a patchwork of ethnic groups that only act in their own self-interest.

Ironically, the Taliban probably have a much better chance at 'nation building' then the Americans, simply because they can and will do what the Americans can't, like go into tribal areas and decapitate it's tribal leaders and demolish regional cultures to replace them with their unified ideal under the banner of their pernicious brand of nationalistic Islam, thus forcing them into 'one (probably very dangerous) tribe. And even that will probably take a hundred years.

As for all the 'hur-dur, who de 'Muricans gonna bomb next' spastics. That depends on who next decides to sponsor massive terrorist events on their soil, provides refuge for their perpetrators and then thumbs their nose at the victims of that terrorism by appointing the perpetrators as an honorary minister in their government as the Taliban did with Bin Laden. I'm never not surprised by the willingness of some to treat nations as infantilized child nations which are never responsible for the disaster they directly invite. The Taliban invited disaster on Afghanistan and America obliged. Their only mistake was to stick around and try to rebuild what they blew up instead of walking away and telling them that 'if you do that again, the next time we'll just bomb you harder'. Perhaps this time the Taliban will learn to stay out of 'international affairs'.

I really would have expected after that amount of time the US has been involved in the country the military + the government intelligence agencies would have a very good handle on capability of Afghan Army to carry on fighting the Taliban on their own and willingness/resolve within Afghan government to stand up to the Taliban.

From what has happened either they either got that wrong or people were not telling the truth somewhere along the line. edit: I think the first is most likely given all aspects of US government appear to be increasingly ineffective and failing - can their military be immune from that degeneration/decay even if the public still respect it, unlike other parts of the state/government?

Yes, it surprises me sometimes that what began all of it is often glossed over and Afghanistan is lumped together with Iraq war. I thought at the time if anything the US should have sent a larger force in to depose the Taliban and destroy Al Qaeda themselves . They should not have tried to use the anti-Taliban "rebels" as their proxies/paid fighters to do this as it was too important a job (IMO) after Sept. 11th. Bin Laden and the leaders escaped them anyway, and he wasn't killed till years later.

Afghans traitionally hug each other when greeting, in that part of the world its common practice, and in Muslim Culture generally. Plus its the newer softer version "for the camera " Taliban. Or the "Doha" model., if you prefer. There are other versions creeping out too, of the real Taliban. and they don't involve hugs.....and for sure they will kill selected members of the ANA ( and others ) but killing a lot of ordinary soldiers, who were only in it for the salary, will certainly stir up a hornets nest of angry relatives and friends of those killed. And bear in mind, every Afghan is a member of a clan / tribe, and they have very long and unforgiving memories. And thats one reason that the Talibs have already started collecting arms....an unarmed population can't really pose much of a threat, but the very fact that they have given weapons collection a priority so early means that they recognise the threat armed civilians pose.

I wonder if the crucial factor, the willingness of the government and army, to stand up to the Taliban, can only really be tested in the heat of battle. Everything probably seemed fine on the surface to the intel agencies but they couldn't get a real handle on that intangible thing in the Afghanis' heads.

Your not looking at from an American POV. Beyond the left and right media slinging at each other, there isn't much political capital here.

It's the sword no POTUS wanted to fall on, but the sword one would have to fall on eventually or else face the flip side of the criticism which was, "Why are we sending x number of soldiers to Afghanistan each year to risk their lives in a pointless foreign conflict?"

Of course Trump says that he would have handled the withdrawal better, but what else would anyone expect him to say? My suspicion is that if had been in charge during the withdrawal, he would have branded those still thronging on the ground to get on a plane as 'losers' and 'not very fit'.

I don’t know how that indicates that the Afghan population are cowards for not fighting the Taliban.

When the Taliban were quickly pushed out of those areas back then, the US used huge amounts of air strikes that the Taliban did not know how to counteract. Standing and fighting against that would have been insane.

It doesn't help that Trump actually talked up the Taliban and said they would be taking over