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New Alternative News Channel "GB News" chaired by Andrew Neil launching - read OP before posting

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    This fawning over Farage is just weird at this stage.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's the highest rated show on GB News, that's why it has added significance here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    It's the only show keeping them on air you mean 🤣🤣🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭hirondelle


    Presumably the guest will be an epidemiologist or some other person qualified to talk about it seeing as Farage is no more qualified to spout off about it on a "news" channel than you or me. He'll be walking a tightrope though- Ardern did close the airports etc. to keep out Johnny Foreigner so he should be applauding that.

    "Smash". Jesus wept.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,537 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    As if Ardern gives a monkeys what a jumped up racist in Britain thinks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    It's not the show. You said Farage is going to "smash Jacinda Ardern"

    What do you have against her?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I've nothing against her at all.

    On the question of COVID-19 though, I do think her reactions have been hysterical and over-the-top.

    By all means take caution, but I think turning her nation into a hermit territory for 2-years is overkill.

    There's also the political dimension, too, and I think she revels in being known effectively as the Queen of COVID, in terms of response.



  • Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭hirondelle


    You edited the post to include the last line? Your offerings to this thread are pathetic at this stage "I think she revels in being known effectively as the Queen of Covid". you simply cannot be writing bullshyte like that with sincerity.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's a notable point worth including. There is substantial political pressure given she is considered to have caused the greatest level of suppression of the virus.

    My colourful description is a reflection of that fact and that she will now always overreact to fulfil the reputation that she has acquired. I'm not going to apologise for editing posts.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Oh my God, you have no idea what thought process Jacinda Ardern or her government have in relation to Covid or Covid restrictions.

    Yet you still think you know their real motivations.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Misogynistic language at the forefront there.... Only 26 people have died in New Zealand from covid. Meanwhile the UK had a horrifying summer last year. So I would say her response to covid was highly successful in contrast to the rest of the globe. She's a far more successful politician than Farage will ever be and I suspect half the hard on the right have for going after her is because of her response to the Christchurch shooting which emphasised embracing a multifaith culture and opposed the politics of hate which he represents.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,974 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    This is all just a fantasy narrative that exists almost exclusively in your head. There is no evidence that anything the NZ Government is doing is so as to have Ardern appear in a particular way or that they are over-reacting.

    They've had success with Covid precisely because of the pre-emptive action instead of reactive like in so many other locations. And their country has seen the benefit of this.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Jacob Rees-Mogg on Talking Pints tonight!

    Fantastic stuff, I'm a massive fan of Rees-Mogg.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Why is it conservatives describe any action a woman takes which they don’t agree with as ‘hysterical’?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They don't.

    Both men and women can react hysterically.



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  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Show me a post where you have said a male politician has reacted hysterically.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,974 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    They might have more luck if they had set up a premium rate late night channel rather than a news channel.

    Seems like you'd get more out of it, and they'd probably make more money than they are doing from advertising.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,294 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    In fairness, Rees-Mogg does seem like the sort of guy who'd wear an old coat, so it's very likely that eskimohunt is indeed a massive fan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    I'm not surprised that you're excited to see that odious little shìt talking shìte with the other odious little shìt.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Really? I've clearly espoused conservative views at often detailed length.

    Rees-Mogg, whether you like him or not, is very articulate and well-informed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    He isn't. The posh accent does nowhere near enough to cover up the nonsense he spouts. It's just facile and fallacious nonsense in my experience.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Are there any conservative voices that you consider somewhat respectable and worth listening to?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Just an example of the contempt Rees Mogg and his co brexiteers had for Ireland especially the border region.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,947 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Dominic Grieve and Rory Stewart in the UK would be a start

    Have you dug out that study you keep quoting yet? Or are we to just take your 3rd hand repetition of the Guardian's headline summary?

    I do assume that considering you have placed such faith in it as a pillar of your anti-immigration tirade?

    That you have read and assessed the original source? Only this is my 3rd time asking for it and you seem to be ignoring the very simple request.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,123 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    "the land of panic"

    Clearly this show is going to weight up all the facts and give a balanced report on the situation



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I wouldn't rate those very high at all, but everyone has their own preferences and that's fine.

    In terms of the study, if you believe that Channel 4 and The Guardian - the twin peaks of extreme right-wing conservatism - concocted the figures and the poll and the presentation of data to the public, then that's absolutely your right. But I don't believe the evidence to be false. If anything, the sources that quote it show that the evidence is more likely to be true than false. Furthermore, I'm against the Trumpian principle of dissecting and dismissing polls that do not deliver the results we would like to see. I accept the polling as performed, and I accept the delivery of the data as given by Channel 4 and The Guardian. If you wish to conduct research beyond that, it is well within your right to do so.

    Furthermore, I'm not anti-immigrant. I'm pro-controlled immigration. The same principle applied by 180+ countries around the world. If it's good enough for them, then it's good enough for me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,947 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    So, again let's cut your waffle and focus on the actual answer.

    When asked to show the actual polling that you keep quoting.

    You've refused, a "no" would suffice but rather than say that, you claim someone is trying to dissect the poll...

    Not at all, merely interpolate the poll with the questions, the weightings and the relevance of a 5 year old poll to today's reality.

    It doesn't matter that Channel 4 commissioned it, or that the Guardian reported certain headline figures from it. You have not read the poll, confirmed the polling parameters or the question weighting and options.

    Yet you have parroted repeatedly a number and source that suits your narrative, without actually querying the underlying data.

    Hypocrite, but it is par for the course with you and numbers. It is further example of the utter disingenuous bollox you approach discussion with. The onus is on you to present your evidence. Yet again, you haven't. Rather than even try and source it, you whinge that oh well, the lefty press said it so it must be true let's just go with it...

    The constant bad faith and evasion on your part is boring at this point but given you're a Farage fan? I can only assume you think that we are fishermen 😉 and are trying his spiel.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This poll was performed by IPSOS Mori; a reputable body on polling.

    You can learn more about the figures and how the poll was conducted, here.

    Had I published a poll from IPSOS that delivered precisely the opposite results, I have no doubt that we would not be seeing the kind of extreme scepticism that is being portrayed here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,947 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Was that so hard? Being asked to evidence your sources is not "extreme sceptism" it is par for the course.

    If someone makes a claim regarding a poll, it's not appropriate to just throw out the headlines. It is reasonable and normal to have the poll source linked. It makes for rational and actually evidenced debate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    So if you're not anti immigrant, but pro controlled immigration you must be happy with the situation in Ireland since that is exactly what we have.

    As do the UK.

    There is no uncontrolled immigration.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    To a degree, yes.

    I mean, we still have uncontrolled migration from southern and eastern Europe, so it's not as controlled as we would like. Freedom of movement of peoples has also delivered to us a rise in the gypsy population, most of whom come from Romania and Bulgaria. Furthermore, there are many nationalities present in Ireland who have lived here beyond the terms of their agreed visa. If they are willing to commit a crime to remain in the country, should we be comfortable or worried by that attitude? I'm thinking of the Brazilian population, for example, of whom four I know are living here in contravention of their visa conditions. So, there are immigration questions to be answered here in Ireland. Direct provision also needs to be looked at, I think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,947 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Interestingly, the breakdown of the data versus it's headline presentation presents quite a different picture to the headline grabbing 52% of Muslims are against homosexuality. The headline figure is correct but the breakdown of the figure itself is very much generational. This is particularly important given that the interviews for many of the poll subjects were carried out in person.

    Many Muslims live in multi-generational households and indeed the bias this may induce is acknowledged.

    A majority (52%) of

    Muslims disagree that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, although attitudes among young Muslims are somewhat more liberal (18% of all Muslims but 28% of those aged 18-24 think that it should).

    Now, let's look at the questions that highlight British Muslim integration and assimilation with British society.

    Most Muslims participate in traditional British cultural practices, even those with explicitly Christian origins. At Christmas,

    three-quarters (73%) send cards and three in five give presents, and many also send Mother’s Day or Father’s Day cards, and wear a poppy on Remembrance Day. But most do not put up a Christmas tree.

    Even more interesting is the Muslim community's attitudes regarding terrorism and it's reporting.

    Across numerous surveys, only a tiny percentage of Muslims have expressed support or sympathy for terrorism. A recent

    2016 survey found that on any act relating to violence, there were notably higher levels of condemnation among Muslim communities than for the population as a whole. Indeed, if anything sympathy for terrorist violence in the general population (4%) was higher than among Muslims (2%).


    One thing I find very interesting is the relatively high percentage of Muslims who feel a responsibility to condemn terrorist acts carried out in the name of Islam.

    I find it interesting because it perpetuates the belief that Muslims are a homogeneous group, when nothing could be further from the truth. It's akin to expecting me as a lapsed Catholic to apologize for Christian fundamentalists bombing abortion clinics.

    Around a half (51%) of Muslims believe it is the responsibility of Muslims to condemn terrorist acts carried out in the name of Islam, although a sizeable minority (38%) believe it is not.

    While the vast majority (94%) of Muslims say they would report activities supporting violent extremism to the police, only a minority (16%) say they have come across such activities and these were mainly on internet sites.

    Now where the question of Muslim identity and belonging becomes quite interesting is in what nationality do British Muslims feel they belong to. Compare and contrast with the British Christian community.

    Muslim, Hindu and Sikhs all see themselves as "British" to a far higher extent than Christians who identify as "English".

    This sense of Britishness is borne out even for immigrants who have a high sense of attachment to the UK.

    Picking the headline figure of 52% anti-homosexual does the efforts of the Muslim community to integrate a huge disservice.

    It is a paragraph, from an 84 page report that in the main is quite positive. It highlights why statistical cherry picking to lay a foundation for the argument of backward/homophobic and non-integtated Muslims is a dangerous tack.

    Reports such as the one that EH cherry picked, are a lot of work and effort and rarely paint the picture presented in headlines.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Great, so no panic about immigration here.

    Why idolise Farage? He has nothing to say which has any relevance here.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nobody is denying, nor has denied the other statistics in the report.

    But we were discussing attitudes to homosexuality. When Anne Widdecombe was being condemned, imagine if I listed statistics that talked about more positive aspects of her attitude to the UK and society at large? We all know what the response would have been.

    Ultimately, you conceded at the start of your remarks that the 52pc remark was correct, but then decided that by somehow splicing that figure into generations, it absolves the responsibility of the community to that attitude. For instance, you talk favourably about the attitudes of young Muslims to homosexuality, when in fact 5 times the number of young Muslims want homosexuality illegal compared to the general population, but that almost forgives older Muslims for holding the view. Yet, when we return to Anne Widdecombe, you and others did not consider her age as a factor. Again, this is double standards.

    Ultimately, it's the general figure among the population that matters.

    52pc among the Muslim population want homosexuality illegal; this contrasts with 5pc among the general population.

    That's the statistic I cited. That's the statistic that matters. And that's the statistic that cannot be ignored.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    "for example, of whom four I know are living here in contravention of their visa conditions."


    You have anecdotal evidence for everything don't you? 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,592 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Was Farage interviewing 52% of the British Muslim population on his tawdry show, or was he interviewing Anne Widdicombe? And were you or were you not bigging up Anne Widdicombe as a good guest?

    That is the only relevance to Widdicombe here. You apparently wouldn't want to let her in the country but still puffed her appearance with Farage.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We're conflating two different arguments.

    Argument (1) - do we want mass immigration of Anne Widdecombe-types into the country?

    Argument (2) - can we respect views made by Anne Widdecombe other than her views on homosexuality?

    The answer to (1) is no; the answer to (2) is yes.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,592 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    If you puff up Widdicombe you puff up the lot. She is indivisible from her views - just like your "thought experiment" fictional immigrants were indivisible from theirs for you.

    You puffed Widdicombe, and you can't actually defend it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    False.

    Whatever happened to the position where you can amicably agree to disagree with a person, without having to pour vitriol onto them just because they take a different opinion to you?

    For instance, I intentionally read the opposition to my arguments: Chomsky, Owen Jones, Jonathan Freedland, Mehdi Hasan (among many others) - simply because you often learn more that way, rather than just dismissing the opposition, tarring them with labels and hoping they never existed.

    Does the other side do the same with prominent conservatives? It certainly doesn't come across that way!

    Widdecombe is the vehicle of many ideas. Whilst I disagree with her views on homosexuality, that doesn't mean I should side-line her and argue that nothing she ever says is anything of value. That's not how ideas work. Ideas and analysis are valuable independent of what alternative ideas someone believes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,592 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    You've spent pages pushing a ridiculous thought experiment trying to make people agree to stop immigration based on peoples beliefs on one thing.

    You, of all people, cannot try to claim you can disconnect people from their beliefs after that.

    But, of course, you will.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm really unsure how many times I can repeat this.

    There is a difference between the mass immigration of Anne Widdecombe's (or 1.5 million Somalians as I've previously put it); and the idea that we cannot at least listen to the opposing views of one individual in society who happens to have anti-homosexual views in our society.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,592 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    As often occurs, you can try restate your views as often as you want but we can see what you meant. You wrote the words, after all.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,606 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I honestly can't think of a single one. I might have said Jordan Peterson before he started flogging climate science denial and beef-only diets.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If an old man or woman - whether it's Anne Widdecombe, or a grandmother or grandfather - takes the old fashioned view that a man and a woman constitute marriage, who am I to condemn them? It's just an opinion. Does it mean we should hate grandparents just because they take the old fashioned view they were indoctrinated with? No, of course not. That's hysterical.

    At some stage, each of us will be 80 years old - and our views, then, will be considered ancient compared to what 20-year old's of the future think.

    There has to be some realism and perspective here. You wouldn't dismiss your grandparents outright for holding some ancient views, because you'd acknowledge the history involved.

    The same is true of Anne Widdecombe. We cannot overreact as if the planet is about to explode.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,592 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    If only Widdicombe's views were as simplistic and comparatively harmless as you make out there.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The general principle stands: old people take a different view of the world than the younger generation of today.

    You are as indoctrinated now in your belief about gay marriage as Anne Widdecombe was in her 20s / 30s about homosexuality.

    At some time, we will replace the Anne Widdecombe's of the world - not with the views of 20 year olds, but of what we were conditioned to believe growing up.

    It's a cycle. Pretending that young people of today are some panacea to geriatric views of the future is to misread the situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,592 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Anne Widdicombe is exceptionally bigoted for a 73 year old. She was bigoted as a 41 year old when Section 28 was barged through. Don't try transfer blame to her age; and don't continue to pretend that you're willing to separate her from her own views because you like some of them.

    If you puff her media appearances, you support her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    Did he actually deny the science behind climate change or just the futility of efforts to tackle it.



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