Sourcing 5.5mm anchor wall plugs 100mm long

boardtc · 17-08-2021 9:39pm #1

I am hanging a curtain rail holder on an internal brick wall which has 5cm of cozy board. The restriction is that the rail hanger has slots which only allow 5.5mm screws. I got some 5.5mm screws in B&Q, but I can't find any long 5.5mm wall plug anchors. Any thoughts on where I could get some?

Any advice appreciated!

beachhead · 17-08-2021 10:19pm

Lenehan's Hardware,Capel Street,Dublin Tel 01.8730466 might be able to help.

Gen.Zhukov · 17-08-2021 10:32pm

. ffs! Site

Esel · 17-08-2021 10:56pm

Could you enlarge the slots on the brackets?

10-10-20 · 17-08-2021 11:42pm

There is a trick to this.

Use normal wall plugs (example: https://www.screwfix.com/p/rawlplug-uno-wall-plug-6-x-28mm-300-pack/44708) and long screws (greater than: 5cm depth insulated plasterboard + the depth of the wall plug + depth of the curtain rail holder). Usually these end up being some type of partially threaded wood-screw (example https://www.screwfix.com/p/screw-tite-pz-double-self-countersunk-screws-5-x-100mm-100-pack/37146).

First drill the required hole (normally 6mm or 6.5mm diameter) for the plug right in past the insulated plasterboard and into the brick so that there is sufficient depth in the brick to take the plug. Then insert a wall plug into the hole. Then feed the required screw fully through the curtain rail holder and then partially screw this into the wall-plug (like, 1 turn, but not enough to cause the plug to expand). Then use a light hammer to drive the screw and plug into the brick. Then tighten the screw as normal to affix the curtain rail holder.

A top tip would be to slightly over-drill the depth of the hole so that the screw can fully deploy, but don't use a poor quality or damaged/twisted drill-bit (as it will weaken the hole and fixing).

Beyond that, go for Esel's solution. :)

boardtc · 18-08-2021 11:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117769616#Comment_117769616

Thanks, talked to them. They had 12" long wall plugs that you can cut to size, he said the come in 3 thicknesses and he was recommending 8mm for my 5.5mm screw. Not sure....

boardtc · 18-08-2021 11:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117769654#Comment_117769654

First I thought you were giving out to me, then I found https://www.ffx.co.uk/ but not much came up under wall plugs....

Lumen · 18-08-2021 12:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771144#Comment_117771144

Probably these. Size checks out.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/5x-Blue-Wall-Plugs-Concrete/dp/B07655GZ5X

the_pen_turner · 18-08-2021 12:32pm

For a 5 mm screw you would want at least a 6mm plug or a 8mm plug.

5mm and 5.5mm plugs are only for light weight stuff and definitely not with 50mm unsupported in between

Use a corefix or an Express nail with 6mm plug

boardtc · 18-08-2021 2:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771354#Comment_117771354

Interesting. I had not heard of corefix, I found https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Corefix-Bracket-Plasterboard-Fixing-Tested/dp/B072JYXJL6/

But the metal bracket for the curtain only takes a 5.5, should I try and drill it:

I found these M8 express nails: https://www.amazon.co.uk/TIMco-08110EN-BZP-Express-Nail/dp/B0089XCURQ

Is the idea to fit a wall plug inside them? I was not sure what size wall plug would fit in side these?

Explosive_Cornflake · 18-08-2021 2:12pm

For a 50mm I'd go with the corefix, and drill out the bracket if the screw doesn't fit.

I've a box here, I can measure the screw size.

the_pen_turner · 18-08-2021 3:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117772108#Comment_117772108

Corefix are great. Not sure what size screw it is.

I use wrawllpkug brand uno plug they are red and 6mm. I have used the long length of plug but it can be tricky to tap it into the express nail. It will bend before it will tap in. I use 2 red 6mm plugs if I'm using a longer screw, just use a screw to tap it in with a hammer

Explosive_Cornflake · 18-08-2021 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117772136#Comment_117772136

Here's the dimensions, seems like they'd be perfect.

https://i.imgur.com/DQAfFyo.jpg

boardtc · 18-08-2021 4:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117772620#Comment_117772620

Super @Explosive_Cornflake 100% made to order for this I reckon, I ordered the corefix box.

J.R. · 18-08-2021 4:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117769786#Comment_117769786

As 10-10-20 explained - This is the way to do it. Simple, cheap, fast and will definitely work.

Gen.Zhukov · 18-08-2021 10:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771153#Comment_117771153

No, not at all. I had typed out a post and had posted it. The new platform decided to turn that into a double post and I deleted 1 of the posts and both got deleted. Lost patience and edited it.

My initial post suggested using M6 drop in anchors.

Lumen · 19-08-2021 5:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774143#Comment_117774143

I've seen that "double post" behaviour. There isn't a double post, there's only one but it's shown twice until you refresh. So you deleted the only one.

It's annoying alright.

boardtc · 01-11-2022 7:00pm

Going back to this job. The corefix solution worked well but it is not good for long curtains which result in extra pressure on the middle holder I think. At the end of the day with the cozy board, there is only 5cm plug in the wall and a 5.5mm screw. The middle curtain holder of the 3.6m curtain pole gets all the pressure of opening and closing and 1+ year later the 2 corefix plugs are out from the wall some and the middle is drooping :-(

So with the corefix solution, results I have 10mm holes in the wall. Unfortunately, express nails only come in M8, but I was thinking perhaps I could use 150-200mm long express nails into the same hole. The holders only take 5.5 but I would need an M6 screw for it to be tight in the M8 express nail.

Doing new holes is awkward because of where the long curtain pole joins in the middle. Maybe I can turn the holder and put in 2 new holes and use express nails so I am into the wall more but I still have the 5.5mm issue in an M8 express nail.

Any ideas to get the middle secure again given where I am at?

Lumen · 02-11-2022 6:15am

Perhaps fix a piece of hardwood e.g. length of 50mm hardwood dowell, to the concrete in place of a cylinder of insulated board, e.g. using a holesaw, and then screw the curtain rail holder into that.

Bond the dowell to the concrete using epoxy or construction adhesive. With such a large contact area it should have good adhesion.

Explosive_Cornflake · 02-11-2022 12:06pm

You could use some longs screws/threaded rod and a chemical anchor.

See here

Gen.Zhukov · 03-11-2022 9:34am

OP, you seem to be restricted in your options with the 5.5mm slot in the bracket. Opening that up would be my priority. How you do that depends on tools available etc. I'd grind a mil or two off each side of the slot. Drilling is possible but good chance of bit biting into the slot and jamming. The min size of bit to try imo would be 8mm HSS. Flat metal file would be an option too.

EDIT: tip for drilling - drill 8mm hole in piece of wood - clamp/screw bracket to wood with slot over 8mm hole - drill through from other side

GreeBo · 03-11-2022 9:59am

In the past I have either cut out a section of the plasterboard wall and fixed wooden blocks directly to the wall behind and then screw the rail into the blocks

Or, fit some timber to the block over the plasterboard and then fix the rail to that timber.

Approach 2 is easier but depending on the curtain design you might want to use some "ornate" wood painted to match the wall to hide it.

boardtc · 03-11-2022 10:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119823333#Comment_119823333

Some brilliant ideas everyone, many thanks. in terms of hiding the work, I am attracted to this one I think. I could drill the holes deeper and chemically anchor the M10 rod to leave the rod flush with the plasterboard. Could I then just put the wall plug for 5.5mm long screws into the rod!? Or drill out to widen the holes to allow an M6 screw if needed, what size screw with a wall plug would work inside an M10 rod?

Explosive_Cornflake · 04-11-2022 2:15pm

I'd get some long m5, m5.5 or m6 rod, set it into wall deep, say 150-200mm. Chemically fix that.

If you only find m6 rod, then enlarge the hole on the bracket.

Get some nuts to match. Screw one or two on before cutting the rod to clean up the thread when you screw it off.

A bit of filler to patch the old 10mm hole and you should be done.

boardtc · 05-11-2022 10:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832994#Comment_119832994

Ok, with a 5.5mm rod I can screw in a 5.5 screw? I actually thought the thread was just on the outside of a threaded rod.

Gen.Zhukov · 06-11-2022 9:13am

I don't think 5.5mm threaded rod exists.

OP, if I'm reading this right, you have a 10mm hole in the wall. I've mentioned drop in anchors above.

A M8 drop in anchor has an M8 internal thread and an OD of 10mm. It has a little tapered wedge in it. You put the anchor in the wall (10mm hole) you then drive the wedge in with a hammer and a punch. The wedge, when driven in, expands the anchor and grips the wall. You are then left with a female M8 thread in the wall. Open up the slot in the bracket as described above and use a M8 screw

boardtc · 07-11-2022 9:24am

Brilliant, thank you General. I found the one in your picture I believe, it's only 34mm long so I don't need to redrill as I have a 5cm deep M10 hole. I will be punching into the hole blind though so perhaps it will go in past the masonry hole opening, probably no issue with that.

https://www.diy.ie/departments/diall-brass-drop-in-anchor-l-34mm-pack-of-4/1517963_BQ.prd

Gen.Zhukov · 07-11-2022 10:59am

Couple of points - push/tap the whole anchor in to the back of the hole using a 10mm dowel or similar. The punch to drive the wedge in could be knocked up out of an old screwdriver or something. I think the max dia of the punch would be 6mm to avoid damaging the M8 thread of the anchor.

The link you put up doesn't mention the OD and I see some makes say they're 9mm OD - I know it's only a mil but I'd prefer the 10mm

For anyone else thinking of using these -

boardtc · 07-11-2022 12:49pm

Super stuff. Some clarifications for myself:

Can you recommend one I can buy with an OD 10mm?
From your description & diagram, I gather that the first step is to use an M6 punch to make sure the M8 anchor (with M10 OD) is engaged in the M10 hole (again this is all done blind). Then I switch to an M10 dowel to get it in all the way. Is this correct?
The diagram suggests a brush to clear out the hole after drilling. I've never done this. What do people use?

Gen.Zhukov · 07-11-2022 4:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119844801#Comment_119844801

The ones in the pic I posted were from radionics https://ie.rs-online.com/web/p/masonry-bolts-anchors/6222111 - .30c each but seems like a bag of 50 though. Don't get too hung up on the OD - the ones in B&Q may well be 10mm, it just doesn't say.

Tap the anchor in fully - then drive the wedge in as the last step. The setting tool above is a bit confusing as it would be for a pro banging in a lot of these every day. Dust - not a huge issue, a quick vac would do. The homemade punch should fit into the anchor easily, it's the top of the wedge that you need to hit

Found one in the shed and tapped the wedge out so ye can see what the craic is with them

boardtc · 09-11-2022 2:37pm

Thanks for the link. The picture helps too! I was struggling with what the wedge was. My current understanding then is that the wedge is inserted in the metal anchor and comes as part of it when you buy it, but you remove the wedge when first putting the anchor in.

Gen.Zhukov · 09-11-2022 4:34pm

No, leave the wedge where it is. I just took the wedge out so people could see what's going on.

Put anchor (c/w internal wedge in place) in the hole in wall - tap in with wooden 10mm dowel (or similar) - then drive the wedge into the anchor with the punch. Job's oxo 😎

boardtc · 10-11-2022 11:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119827315#Comment_119827315

Would you recommend doing this over using a step drill bit?

boardtc · 10-11-2022 11:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845868#Comment_119845868

I'm ordering the bag of 50 and will use 2, so if anyone needs any, give me a shout!!

Gen.Zhukov · 10-11-2022 8:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856687#Comment_119856687

I probably would but it's much of a muchness and whatever you're happy doing. Also depends on what you have ie. if you don't have an 8mm hss bit don't buy one just for this job if you have a step bit.

Don't overthink these things - get stuck in

Re the excess anchors - I'd bag them in 10's and flog them on adverts for a fiver a pop

boardtc · 12-12-2022 5:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845868#Comment_119845868

I know you say not to overthink but easier said than done if you understand what's going on. I'm really struggling with this one. I've never used these drop in anchors and don't understand them. I opened the RS pro bag envelope at the weekend but there was only the bag of anchors included, no instructions. They are so short too. I struggle to see how they will hold when the initial solution did not.

So they idea is I have to get separate 100mm M6 screws? I don't have them.

But first I think I need to remove the wedge inside, drive the outer part of the drop in anchor into my M10 hole with a lump of wood stuck into my hole then somehow try and put the small wedge through the hole into the drop in anchor - I will need some kind of magnet to hold it? Why does the wedge need to be removed first? I can't get my head around it at all.

I might have to return these and go with the M8 express nail and chemical anchor at least I can understand the solution. What chemical anchor do ye recommend?

Gen.Zhukov · 12-12-2022 10:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119988364#Comment_119988364

Why does the wedge need to be removed first?

It doesn't - as I said above, leave the wedge where it is

If you have a 10mm hole in the wall push the anchor to the back of the hole. Then drive the wedge in the anchor further into the anchor. The wedge expands the sleeve of the anchor and grips the inside of the hole.

In the diag I posted prev, shows the method. I've expanded that a bit for ya here

Do a test run if you want in brick or a garage wall or something. Guarantee it will hold and never come out again

The wedge, when driven in, expands the outer part of the anchor and holds in the wall

DublinDilbert · 14-12-2022 8:05am

my go to for this situation is use express nails and put a rawl plug inside that. I use this for curtail rails and radiators, never an issue. The flared head of the express nail should be driven flush with the plasterboard and gives a good surface to clamp down on and not crush the plaster board.

50mm warm board I would use a 100mm express nail and only needed in top screw holes on each bracket.

boardtc · 14-12-2022 1:09pm

@Gen.Zhukov I'm feeling this solution is a dead end for me. I found some M6 screws and they are way too small. Looking at the RS anchor it seems to take a M8 thread I think, a wasted purchase :-( Unless you had another idea how to get M6 screws in there?

boardtc · 14-12-2022 1:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994499#Comment_119994499

@DublinDilbert Thanks for staying with this. I need to start again with a potential solution and would love to be in a position to do it on Saturday morning and have it sorted for Christmas dinner. I can get some express nails, they are M8 and my holes which I can't change are M10. The suggestion before I believe was to secure the M8 express nails in the M10 holes with a chemical anchor. I have no experience with them, it sounds like they will fill the 2mm gap anyway? Can someone recommend a readable available product as googling is not helping?

It's far from ideal though as the holes in the plasterboard are M10 too, so stopping the express nail from dropping down will be hard. (In summary for the thread, I am replacing a corefix installation that was not strong enough to hold the middle bracket on a 3m+ curtain rail)

Gen.Zhukov · 14-12-2022 3:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119995596#Comment_119995596

I said this in a post on the 1st page

..." You are then left with a female M8 thread in the wall. Open up the slot in the bracket as described above and use a M8 screw "

So your options seem to be - A) Back to square one and explore all other solutions - Express nails, chemical anchors etc...

or - B) get a M8 bolt/screw

I know what I'd do.

DublinDilbert · 14-12-2022 4:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119995620#Comment_119995620

Don't worry about the size of the holes in the cosy/warm board. What size are the holes in the brick wall behind it? (I assume its a brick wall?) Do you have a drill and a 6 or 8mm bit to drill in. Express nails are so strong that even if only 25-30mm of it is buried into the brick wall, there will still be massive strength in it.

There are probably other easier ways, but this is what i always do and it never fails.

boardtc · 16-12-2022 7:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119996376#Comment_119996376

I can't do this, I've always been restricted by the curtain holder brackets having 5.5mm holes, there no room to drill them out to M8.

boardtc · 16-12-2022 8:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119996508#Comment_119996508

The only holes are M10 made for corefix. This was a standard drill hole I made starting at the plasterboard and finishing in the wall. How will the M8 express nails stay in the M10 holes? Also the express nail will bend down to the bottom of the M10 hole at the plasterboard exit...

Gen.Zhukov · 16-12-2022 8:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005056#Comment_120005056

...there no room to drill them out to M8

I don't get this. In the pic of the bracket it looks easy enough to drill

Sourcing 5.5mm anchor wall plugs 100mm long

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