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US and Nato withdrawal from Afghanistan...- threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Pakistan is still hosting over a million refugees, from the previous conflicts. I would expect that most would stay for good, especially young kids who will grow up seeing Ireland as their home.



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    any number would need to be multiplied by 4-8 since they seem to be mostly men. Certainly not families. We are not going to stop family reunification.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,760 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Indeed plus Afghanistan has the highest fertility rate outside of sub-Saharan Africa, around 5 children per women.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't care about Pakistan, they border Afghanistan and are responsible for a lot of what is going on there. As for those who stay here, it shouldn't be up to them to decide. If we give protection, they should be removed when the threat is considered over. Harsh, maybe? But that's what the system is there for.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    @[Deleted User] Since 2000 we have taken hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers and refugees. How many have ever been returned??

    60,000 + through direct provision over 20 + years ,

    Deported 1,400 over 20+ years

    Thousands of deportation order issued but rarely ever served as people just vanish and change identitys



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thanks, interesting figures. The 60,000 figure looks very low. We always seem to average around 3-4,000 per annum plus we've had years way higher, while also having some lower obviously.

    Anyway that deportation figure is ridiculous. 2% officially deported and hardly a murmur out of the politicians or media about this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,842 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    I suspect, despite the persistent denials, the Taliban, at least in some areas of Afghanistan, had significant support. It certainly seem Ghani was not well liked by all sides to this conflict.

    This article goes some way to explaining how things ended up as they are.


    https://apnews.com/article/race-and-ethnicity-2901e54d6268341d3caf936fef6313db



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    Such wisdom from Washington. Can we think of any cash crops from that country (a predominately rural population) may be able to grow in abundance, for export in order to make up the difference?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    I have to say, if a group can take control of a country so quick and remove all semblance of a 20 year regime in days.

    One must assume the people are in support of this change at this time, whether out of dislike for the admin in place or something else.


    It's time to let it be and remember that although we may not agree with Taliban principles etc. they were really removed due to their support for Al Queda rather than anything else.


    It would appear from some news reports that the top man intends on a more relaxed form of Taliban rule - He has been in discussions with both UN and US for some months while based in Qatar. Guess time will tell.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Pakistan didn't invade Afghanistan and setup a paper army.

    Regardless, the reality is that a lot of refugees will end up staying. Telling someone they have go back to a country they haven't been in decades would be cruel. People will start jobs, education, form relationships etc over a long enough period of time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    For those imploring afgani's to stand up, are you happy to see a decade long civil war with thousands of casualties possible genocide of some of the diverse ethnic groups?

    I fear that this is the likelihood anyway, I dont think the taliban are capable of stable government for such a large region.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm not saying some shouldn't be allowed to stay full time but as Merkel said the expectation is that most have to return home once conditions permit, yet this rarely happens. It frees up space for others in any future conflicts.

    As for Pakistan, interesting article here in the Guardian about their role in this:


    In general terms Pakistan could easily end up becoming a failed state in the next few decades, a massive country with a bourgeoning population of hundreds of millions, 220,000,000 as of now and rapidly expanding, almost half the size of the entire EU. If they do collapse we will face the same calls for mass importation of refugees and migrants from this area.

    Europe needs to protect it's borders and societies or else we will also collapse in the long term.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭ForestFire


    I don't get all the criticism that the Afghan government and army were not prepared and ready after the US departure!!


    It seems Afghanistan's President Ashraf Ghani was well prepared for the fight to save the country, but obviously when it become clear the army was disserting him, his only option was to flee the country as soon as he could, in fear of his life.


    So under the cover of darkness, he fled to UAE, with only the clothes on his back, his passport and his close family members..........



    .......Oh and the €169 million that happen to be resting in suitcases neatly packed up for such occasions!!!!


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9905093/Former-Afghan-President-Ashraf-Ghani-fled-169MILLION-cash-stuffed-helicopter.html







  • Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I believe they will not change because fundamentally they are still saying "we will follow sharia law" to the letter, they are completely inflexible on this. Eventually it will revert to very little civil liberty and suppression with kangaroo courts and rife corruption. I am not taking much solace in their messages about women in education and the workforce. They will say that the women want to wear burkas and be obedient servants because they will want to due to the overwhelming weight of fear they will feel and the culture of spying and snitching.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,760 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    There'll be no making up anywhere near the difference no matter how much they grow. The country is bust.

    Europe needs to prepare for a huge wave of refugees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    FYI, its Afghan's, not afgani's, afgani is the currency of Afghanistan.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Turkey is currently reinforcing their border area with extended walls etc. To what extent this will help, who knows. Greece also. The real test for Europe will come when we find out who replaces Merkel in Germany. What they say ultimately will decide what happens.

    Austria have had enough though as has most of Eastern Europe. Italy will depend on their next election but they have huge support for right leaning parties so their days of mass immigration should be over.

    As for Ireland we will tag along with Germany, France, Belgium and the Dutch unfortunately. Britain will do their own thing from now on.

    Even the open border advocates throughout Europe know that the entire system will come crashing down if they continue to bring millions of people into Europe. Half a million arrived last year officially during a pandemic (who knows what the real figure was), yet this wasn't enough for some.



  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Something like 10 billion dollars in Afghan reserves have been frozen in U.S. banks. You wouldn't be inclined to give much to the Taliban, they would probably just waste it on craft beer and beard grooming kits anyway, but the country needs money badly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,760 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog



    Seems they'll be reliant on NGO foreign aid for the foreseeable.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Haha, they definitely won't be getting their hands on that anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    You may well be right, mind you with regards corruption, the Admin just gone was by all accounts the most corrupt set up ever.

    I read the now ousted president even ran off with 165 million dollars ffs.


    That kind of admin was bought by the US and dissolved as soon as US money did. I really do hope the Taliban are better than they were but things tend to revert to the same state in the end.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    UNICEF have said they are quite optimistic after Taliban comments on girls' education, official says, according to Reuters.


    Give me strength... 😔



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,989 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Could be various opposition groups coming together to oppose the spread out Taliban fighters. There's alot of road and negotiating yet to run out I'd imagine in this situation.



    Meanwhile, videos from the Panjshir Valley north of Kabul, a stronghold of the Northern Alliance militias that allied with the US against the Taliban in 2001, appear to show potential opposition figures gathering there.


    It is in the only province that has not yet fallen to the Taliban.


    Those figures include members of the deposed government, vice president Amrullah Saleh, who asserted on Twitter that he is the country’s rightful president and defence minister General Bismillah Mohammadi, as well as Ahmad Massoud, the son of the slain Northern Alliance leader Ahmad Shah Massoud.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,262 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    In general, history repeats itself in this region of the world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,427 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    That area is in for a savage bating if the Taliban get in there. Lots of scores to settle.

    Smart move would be to hold out for a Kosovo style deal



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Possible economic sanctions were mentioned. Wouldn't this make things just worse for the people of Afghanistan?

    What kind of leverage is going to be employed that won't hurt the people?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmreire



    Fandymo, when the Taliban first arrived in Afghanistan after the Russians had left, there was a war already in progress between the different factions,and each faction was armed to the teeth,,you name it, they had it,,pretty much the same situation as exists today .. heavy and light machine guns, rocker launchers, Mortars, AK47's by the lorrry load, and as for mines and ammunition,,without Nr..+ explosives by the ton. All courtesy of the departing Russians, and gifted by the US. They were trained and experienced fighters, and guess what??? The Taliban went through them like a dose of salts, City after City including Kabul. Only the Northern Alliance were able to hold them off. And I don't know for sure , but as I remember, they had no where near 100'000 fighters back then.Now you can talk %'s all you like, but its not the Nrs that count in the final analysis, its the quality and experience of the people involved. So could a force of 167 professional well armed soldiers could take a town of 10'000 Civilians? Yes, they could.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmreire


    WiFi might be in very limited supply affter the honeymoon though, if past experience is anything to go by.....😀



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