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Gulf stream goes,what's next

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,777 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Id be very optimistic youll see a complete 360 reversal on any policies they try and implement, food security of a nation/continents is literally on a knife edge at the minute, the total crop failures in canada and large swathes of western america, combined with the bread basket of america califronia facing huge issues with water supply for agriculture effectively shutting down huge areas of land as lake meade dries up will really hit home into 2022, noting will force politicians to row back draconian environmental regulations then empty supermarket shelves



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,956 ✭✭✭dzer2


    Already getting scarce in Britian in certain areas.

    Stop production beef but fly avaocado's around the world great policy that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,978 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Most environmentalists and vegans have no real understanding of what is need to prevent climate change. There is absolutely no point in 15-20% of the world (mainly sections of European and US society) making huge efforts if the rest of the word is increasing greenhouse gases faster than we lower out output. Brazil, China, Australia and a lot of Asia and African countries are in increasing carbon at a phenomenal rate.

    This project is doomed to failure unless we find a technical solution or all countries cone on board

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    The amount of teenagers i know who are full on depressed because they thing they will be living on an ice berg in 20 years.

    This non stop news feed is doing more damage than CO2 is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    It reads like the lack of Environmental regs in the likes of the US,Aus, Brazil etc. is actually the cause of poor harvests as the ground water supply is fast disappearing due to over abstraction for intensive farming or is so heavily contaminated with pesticides its not safe to use. EG. The biggest river system in Oz (Murray/Darling) is now only at 20% of its pre-European Settlement flow while GM Soya production in Mato Grosso has contaminated many of the headwaters of the Amazon and Argentinas biggest river with pesticides and significantly reduced their flows.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,956 ✭✭✭dzer2


    Anyway we will all die of covid before the jet stream



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,211 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    I think things will double down. They'll look at the area where 50% of the world's bread grain is grown turning in to arid soil.


    It'll scare the living sh87 out of them.

    Another tough year there and you'll see revolution and uprisings again across much of the world.


    The Arab Spring started off on less of a blow to American harvests



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    "Stop production beef but fly avaocado's around the world great policy that."

    Million percent TRUTH about modern so called "climate change" apporoach. 99.99% of actions are dangerous scam nothing more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,929 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Quick note - Gulf Stream (ocean current) and jet Stream (air current) are 2 different things. A lot of people mixed these up.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    The problem is literally everybody is looking to a different group to make the sacrifices to solve the problem.

    farmers are saying food production is essential deal with airlines

    Airlines are saying flying is essential we’re not serving beef on board to solve the problem the farmers are causing

    vegans are saying ban animal farming because of their emotional weakness towards it, as they fly in avocados from destroyed rainforest

    rural dwellers are saying we can’t manage without diesel cars because there is no infrastructure

    people in cities are saying deal with the farmers, we get our food from supermarkets so we don’t need them

    the hotel groups are saying foreign holidays are unnecessary, but they then charge 5 times the cost of same holiday

    the teenagers are blaming previous generations while fast fashion and changing a smart phone every few months is common and we’re building data centres to store their TikToks

    Eurocrats are looking to import beef and peat from far flung places so we don’t produce it here and we can crow about how green washed we are

    the politicians are busy getting re-elected and are trying to fogure who to hurt with charges so their vote isn’t hurt

    There’s 100% a climate crisis, and we 100% need action, but I see no leadership in this country from any party capable of dealing with this complex problem fairly and impartially



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,530 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Moody depressed teens were always a thing. Remember emos?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Some of them'd need to take a hard look at themselves alright, did anyone see the program earlier in the week about ''The way we were''



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    The difference is that generation were willing to go over the top in the Somme. Our generation aren’t willing to use a bicycle



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭Gillespy


    Poor fools they were. Singing the 'we're here because we're here' song getting slaughtered. A lot of our generation went to be killed in Afghanistan too. All for nothing. Imagine being the family of one of them dead soldiers today. So it's understandable people are a little cynical about the stuff they get force fed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,782 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Soft times breeds soft people.


    For the day that's in it. There's a clip on cnn of a taliban fighter saying taliban law will be brought all over the world and their jihad will continue.

    Expect more attacks in Europe and Britain now.


    Anyway gone way off topic. Memes or some other Internet stuff!😏



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,111 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Well Ireland is at the same latitude as the southern end of Hudson Bay in Canada, which freezes over solid and has polar bears roaming around and on it in winter.

    If the Gulf strem shuts down completely, Europe will freeze and much of it will experience Canadian style winters, until the kilometres thick ice sheets cover it year round.

    Before Ice ages kick off, you get sudden and rapid increases in CO2 levels, average global temperatures increase rapidly, the Gulf stream stops and icebergs break off from Antarctica and drift a lot further north than normal. We seem to have three of the necessary ingredients and just need that last one to seal the deal.

    Some think it takes millenia for an ice age to become established, others claim research indicates it can take as little as a decade.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Being an island we would be probably slightly less impacted than say western France, but you could be looking at winter that looked more like NW Scandinavia and probably colder summers too.

    Much the agricultural activity in Western Europe would be disrupted.

    Most of our infrastructure is also incapable of dealing with a hard winter, so you’d be looking at having to rebuild almost every building, water and sewage systems would likely freeze (water systems did freeze during a couple of very cold snaps in the recent past.)

    If it picked up moist, cold air from the Atlantic you could also be looking at months of snow blankets instead of intermittent rain.

    Much of our vegetation and wildlife wouldn’t survive either as relatively little of it could deal with a sudden climatic shift like that.

    If that happened you’d really be looking at a total disaster and probably mass migration out of Northern Europe towards the Med, as it would rapidly become too harsh to be a pleasant place to live.

    Biggest issue would be crop failures on the continent creating food issues. You’d also be looking at things like the end of dairy farming, the collapse of the French and Spanish wine industries, that are dependent on relatively mild Atlantic driven winters, huge disruption to fruit and vegetable growing on the continent etc etc

    A big shift like that if it were to happen suddenly could be a total disaster and basically end our way of life here and in most of Western Europe.

    It also doesn’t equate to having more extreme summers. It could very easily just end to with extremely cold winter and summers more like say Iceland - say 8-14°C. Ireland has little or no continental temperature effect, as we’re too far away from it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    You know there was a time too when tropical jungles reached well inside the arctic circle. If anything we are heading more towards that scenario. The area between the tropics would be uninhabitable in that scenario. The Mediterranean would become the Sahara. The one country that would benefit massively from a warm planet is Russia. Huge areas of that country currently under permafrost would become very attractive.

    Canada would become a super power too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    Parts of Sibera had Summer time temperatures in the mid 30s this year. Last year it went over 40C. It's seen an explosion of growth too



  • Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Biscuitus


    If every farmer had 2 less cows in Ireland climate change wouldn't be a problem anymore............



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,325 ✭✭✭iLikeWaffles


    Wasn't a temporary shutdown of the gulf stream the cause of the bitterly cold winter in 2010. Anti-lockdown cohorts won't want to believe the gulf stream is in bother, likely thoughts on it will be all part of the "plan".

    If there is another bad winter here like 2010 what way would it effect your livelihoods? And what, if any preparation can be done to the now to adjust to it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They say when the permafrost melts up in Siberia etc that it will cause a carbon pump meaning a massive release of methane from the ground which will mean global warming cant be reversed.

    The greens got in to government here and offered little in the way of moving people off fossil fuels etc. We are still importing fuel to run our cars and heat our homes.

    Agri could be part of the solution here but talk of cutting cow numbers etc when the likes of teagasc, farmers journal, IFA etc offer farmers little alternative enterprises just show us how pointless they are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,978 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Problem is that no matter what smaller countries do, as larger economies do nothing it's immaterial. As Brazil burns down rainforests the size of France, the US still has sub 4 dollars/gallon petrol ( that's about 80c/L), China opens 30-50 new coal power generation plants and Australia supplies the coal we are trying to hold out the tide on the beach with a bucket and spade.

    And that is before we allow for the.pmanned expansion of the Brazilian beef herd that plans to slaughter 10 million more cattle/ year by 2030. New research is showing that green house emissions of western European cattle herds in 30-40 % of these cattle

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We still have to do our bit.

    There are so many things we could be doing in Europe:

    1. Accelerate move away from fossil fuels by retrofitting cars
    2. Eliminate beef, soya and grain imports from South America
    3. Use food waste to produce energy and produce more of our own energy
    4. Encourage more home working / staycationing with tax reliefs
    5. Factor in food miles in labelling in supermarkets
    6. Scrap food offers 6 for 6 offers etc that lead to food waste and see producer being pressurised
    7. Scrap teagasc and set up a farming research agency focused on low carbon / new farming enterprises


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    When were the green party here anything other than a Gimmick. The last time they got into power was on the strength of being the watchdog over fine fail, as it turned out John Gormley couldn't be bothered to get out of his bed the night they decided to bail out the banks.

    They are in power this time and it's no different. They lack any real ambition or knowledge, just a bunch of cute hors ridding the green flag for a free ride



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Total failure of a party.

    They lacked the courage to force any real change through.

    This is the last government without SF at the helm. The greens could have held that over FFG and gotten more of their agenda onto the table. I’m some respects that doesn’t matter because their policies lacked any real teeth or true progressive initiatives.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Its been said so often but the greens are like fine gael on bikes.

    Prattling on about people growing veg in window boxes when in reality people should be able to secure housing with a decent garden to do veg etc.

    Spot on about the greens in power, they seemed eager to up their game this time but as soon as they were in it was jobs for the boys and girls.

    The lesson from the bail out seems to have been the market will sort it out and hence european pension and vulture funds from everywhere took over and operated in low tax.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    "The lesson from the bail out seems to have been the market will sort it out"

    That was the thinking of the British parliament during the Irish famine. They knew there was enough food in the country to feed everyone yet the new radical thinking of the time was that the "Market will sort itself out" so they didn't intervene. Roll on to 2021 and the current government has the same mindset wrt everything from housing to the Environment



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Good loser


    That certainly was not 'the lesson from the bailout'.

    Didn't the Govt interfere to an unprecedented extent (in the market) through a takeover of virtually the entire banking sector?

    It is arguable that a different approach would have left us far better off today.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah they took over the loan books and flogged them at will.

    They did as you say step in too much at the start but it was a bad idea to flog everything off like that, they are all land lords though I suppose.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Good loser


    Proves the State is at least as incompetent as the market.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,111 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I'd call ensuring Ireland became a diesel powered country a forced change. A really environmentally stupid thing to do, and a change in the wrong direction, but it was a change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,978 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves



    Hindsight is 20/20 vision. The government of the day had little choice, we were funded by the IMF.

    How fast we remember the friendly face of Ajai Chopra

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Photos+Ireland+imf+bailout&client=ms-android-oppo-rev1&biw=360&bih=582&tbm=isch&prmd=niv&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_2aXWk8PyAhWJbsAKHdJ1C9kQ_AUIFigC


    They set the terms and conditions. If we did not da as we were told, nurses,doctors and teachers would not be paid, the unemployed word need soup kitchens and ...... farmers would not have received REPS payments or the last of our shed grants.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Yea.

    they we’re dragged into a meeting on a Friday night with no option to get advice. Essentially a gun was put to their head to do this or the country would be out of money. As it was the Guinness family paid the HSE fortnightly wage bill.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Did that really happen with the guiness family covering the HSE payroll?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,978 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Ya we were by a punch drunk FF government who expected those that they enriched or were there political funders to tell them the truth. We had a Green minister who was in bed and u contactable until a Garda woke him up

    If it was a Friday night we might have got a different result. It was a Tuesday or Wednesday night the markets were reopening in the morning. Ya a gun was put to there heads but they received a **** load of incorrect information from two main banks AIB and Anglo. That is not forgiving them, I will never forget what FF or the banks for what they did to us that night forgive maybe but never forget.

    Most of the decision's after that were made by the IMF even after the next government came into power.

    Sh!t happens it would not be sh!t if it did not happen


    Na he just using a metaphor, as the tax from the drink industry covered the cost if the HSE he is incorrect in that as well

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,325 ✭✭✭iLikeWaffles


    It amazes me how off topic this thread has gotten 😂



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You have to wonder where the money goes in the health service, 20 odd billion and its still 100 if you go to A&E



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It is a legitimate concern, the weather has got extreme.

    Will the IFJ be doing articles in 10 years on dairy farmers converting to trawlers and braving the icy conditions for "the big catch"?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    That’s been said within senior management of the hse is all I know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Jist on the first point.

    If we had a massive uptake in EV we would have a massive infrastructure problem to deal with. The grid wouldn’t be capable of the overnight demands and as it is they are talking about power blackouts. Pushing massive EV numbers without infrastructure is putting the cart before the horse. Imagine the numbers ringing into work because they can’t come in as there was another power blackout overnight.

    and if the electric is generated with fossil fuels you’ve achieved nothing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Public service is very wasteful and poorly managed. no other company could survive the carry on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,325 ✭✭✭iLikeWaffles


    Depends on how many metres above sea-level, a lot of farmland is well above sea-level. There would have to be a major climate shift which would be outside projected models for sea levels to rise that high. It would be unrealistic to become a fisherman on that basis. Sea levels have been on the rise since the 1900's if it hasn't made farmers convert to trawling yet it is unrealistic to think that it will anytime soon.

    The side tracking of the thread was not caused by the weather.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭Suckler


    SEa level changes affect inland waterway outflow; it won't matter if your above sea level if the water is taking longer to drain off land. We're not talking trawlers etc. but as I mentioned earlier, heavy land like mine won't take consistent years of saturation.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    That's such a good point. I never thought of that.

    A big question about sea level rise too is what happens to ports. You can't relocate your ports every decade or so, and what happens international trade then? Of course it depends on how fast SLR happens, and it's one of the trickier things to predict in the models. Big variation on the current estimates.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,325 ✭✭✭iLikeWaffles


    What sort of sea level increases are you expecting lads? Ports are still a good few metres above sea level even accounting for high and spring tides they would still have a good few metres to spare. Would be fairly easy to make ports higher if it ever came to that, no relocation would be needed. There has been about 16–21 cm rise since the 1900. By 2030 it is predicted there will be a 9–18 cm rise, 15–38 cm by 2050, and anywhere between 30–130 cm by 2100. Drainage might be an issue but it is not exactly an unmanageable problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Same point as @Suckler made, marginal land will just continue to be harder and harder to manage, shorter and shorter windows of opportunity to get stuff done.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As someone who has lost land to the sea, it'll be adapt or die baby! Farming will continue in some guise, what will become more obvious is damage caused by unsuitable management will become more visible in either farm sales/retirement due to mindset not meeting reality or actual visible land damage.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Batteries seems to use materials mined from dictatorships where people suffer.


    LPG cars produce 10% less carbon. Not a very expensive conversion either and its cheaper than diesel or petrol.


    Also, serious benefits in terms of how cleaner it is than diesel for Nox etc.


    Lets say if autonomous driving takes off then a "car subscription" like for your phone could be an option where you request a car for specific periods.


    If the Gulf stream does shut off the consequences will be drastic for Ireland, our climate benefits hugely from it we can see that in agri.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I can see a big push towards reclaiming national fishing grounds if our climate does change drastically.



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