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The Irish protocol.

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭mariab21


    Well done to Ireland for helping protect the 6 counties



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Unionists should be shouting loudest for the NIP because if this circus of a UK government force a trade border in Ireland then Stormont is finished and we move to the post GFA phase.


    The post GFA phase will be an acknowledgement that the north simply doesn't work, British direct rule is unacceptable so that leaves us with one option, and that's unification of our country, to bring this ****-show called 'Northern Ireland' to an end once and for all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    The EU returned a small amount of the money that our government had passed to them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Every interpretation of every poll shows that less than 50% have any stated desire to change the status quo. The staid quo is that ni is part of Uk. Join the dots



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    You are just highlighting your own prejudice with that statement.

    unless I specify otherwise or the context suggests such, when I refer to ‘us’ I refer to the residents of ni



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The pro-UI vote is doing extremely well ahead of any plan/proposal from Dublin.

    if you look at Ind Scotland pre their referendum and the White Paper on Independence it was in the low 30's and moved upwards to damn near winning the thing.

    You cannot extrapolate a majority in favour of the Union in the absence of a proposal. A majority favour the status quo in the absence of a proposal is all you can claim.

    What you can do is see that there is a very clear majority in the north and the south who want the question asked which they presumably mean - want to see Dublin's proposal for a UI and the UK's proposal to maintain the Union.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭KildareP


    Your interpretations of wanting to stay part of the UK are based only on opinion polls but yet we should accept it as fact.

    Yet you'll outright dismiss an actual, official democratic poll on EU membership that indicates the desire for the people of NI to remain in the EU!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Suckler


    I'm sure there'll be a zoom call with representation from all sides of the community to back up this



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Suckler


    On the contrary; You've shown (again) the blinkers you're willing to put on when it comes to EU/UK to justify any reason for siding with the UK government so unwaveringly. The UK government have treated NI (all people) with nothing but contempt during the Brexit process, yet your ire is constantly and consistently directed at the EU and, even more bizarrely, the Irish Government. Your misguided, and plainly wrong, place of blame has been pointed out numerous times.

    And as for highlighting "prejudice"; that's back fired spectacularly.

    You're 'justification' for siding so loyally "any day of the week" with the UK was "Just compare what each has done for us over the decades". Again; one governing body ruled/allowed the ruling over one specific portion of the population in a manner any third world despot would've been proud of. Yet you gladly hark back to what they done for "US" of ver the decades. As you so eloquently put it; Join the Dots......Telling indeed.

    Edit: And to echo my previous post; The UK government willfully caused and entertained 30+ years of violence to justify their apartheid stance on one side of the populace of NI.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Stop trying to twist my posts into some sort of hypocrisy.

    1) I am not suggesting any poll is taken as fact - I was simply saying that all the polls support my position

    2) I completely accept that a majority of NI voted to stay in the EU, as did a majority of London. I am not denying that

    So I have no idea what point you are making?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Incredibly one-sided nonsense.

    As you point out i said "Just compare what each has done for us over the decades"

    Over the last 6 or 7 decades the UK government has tried to manage a situation where two communities were engaged in a murderous sectarian campaign over nationality. They done this at great cost financially and in the soldiers lives. They even formally confirmed a few decades ago that they had no strategic interest in keeping NI against the will of the people.

    EU government has done nothing for us over the last 6 or 7 decades. They have returned a small percentage of the monies our goverment gave to them, and even that is returned with endless conditions and expensive bureaucracy



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,212 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    EU government has done nothing for us over the last 6 or 7 decades. They have returned a small percentage of the monies our goverment gave to them, and even that is returned with endless conditions and expensive bureaucracy

    What an incredibly naive and uninformed opinion



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    He's drinking the Jamie Bryson/Jim Allister koolaid.

    It doesn't matter if cold hard facts are presented again and again, they are just ignored or the conversation is pivoted to something else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭KildareP


    I don't need to twist, it is plain to see.

    Brexit is an all UK affair that does not require the explicit consent of the people of NI but the NIP is invalid because it has not received the will of the people.

    The will of the people of NI is to remain in the UK and we are supposed to accept your point because of opinion polls but the Brexit referendum result and the explicit desire of the people of NI to remain in the EU is brushed aside.

    You denounce Irish Sea checks that go against your desire to be as closely tied to the UK as possible, even when to do so would be to your own detriment, as petty, beligerent, nonsense but denounce actual positive benefits to NI of being in the EU SM as "irrelevant".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Suckler


    "One sided"- no, I wasn't one of the "Us" you refer to and, given your responses, I am am proven more accurate on the "Us" post earlier...

    You've side stepped the point raised in my post intentionally and painted it simply as a "sectarian campaign over nationality".. Your precious UK government for generations, allowed the implementation of apartheid-esque in a UK member state and watched a peaceful civil rights movement be met with state sponsored violence. This ensured "Themun's" had no other voice than retaliatory violence and made it easier to justify a two tier system based on those they saw as beneath equality. If you or your fellow loyalist brethren really gave a toss about the "great cost or the soldiers", again, your ire would have been squarely at your own in-house leadership and Westminster. Lets not kid ourselves either, if it wasn't for international pressure, things would still be as they were 20-30 years ago....maybe you miss that?

    The statement you keep regurgitating about the EU merely "returning a small percentage of the monies" is ( I hope) a willful simplification of how the EU operates; otherwise it's uniformed drivel of the lowest denominator.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Well DC that's not your choice I'm afraid. Ultimately England will decide on what happens in Northern Ireland and you can bet it won't be something that'S conducive to keeping the union intact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    One side was engaged in a conflict with the British Army, and its proxies, while Unionists were engaged in sectarian mass murder of innocent Catholics. This is evident in the numbers i.e. a majority of PIRA killings were Security Forces while the vast majority of Unionist death squads' killings were innocent Catholics.

    You know this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    It’s a great relief that they have protected our Nando’s chicken. Just a pity they didn’t work harder to stop the ira launching attacks from their jurisdiction foe 30 years 🤔. But hey. We’ve got Nando’s



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Maybe you can present some facts on what the Eu done for us bar allowing us to spend a very small percentage of what our government gave them , with strings attached



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Are you really serious about this “ie. a majority of PIRA killings were Security Forces”, or are you on a windup. Could you produce a link to support this absolute nonsense. Facts are completely irrelevant to most republicans, he Se the claims that the ira were not waging a sectarian campaign.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    This is tiresome.

    brexit was a Uk wide vote. Simple

    nip is legitimate. Uk gov have the right to ignore the views of one region and implement it. The people of ni have the right to work to have it’s bad bits removed.

    what is there hard to understand about that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Wrong again. The comment was about remaining in Uk. England will not decide that thanks to gfa. The people of ni have 100% control over that one - unique I reckon anywhere in the world, unless you know differently



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,212 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle



    You're still coming out with this nonsense, presumably just to troll the forum because it has been clear to anyone who had an interest that the EU have financed many areas in NI such as these and that these were areas that had been neglected by London previously: https://www.finance-ni.gov.uk/topics/finance/european-funding-2014-2020.

    If you think that this is money simply being returned to the UK, then how are NI farmers getting on without EU subsidies?

    Which of the various structural funds have been seen their funding replaced by Westminster? Have Invest NI seen a reduction in income because I thought that London would only supply 10% of what the EU supplied?


    As for your silly comment about them protecting Nondo's chicken - you're simply belitteling a serious logistics issue affecting GB which is worsening but because of EU rules is not affecting NI. This is protecting NI jobs which you ought to be happy with but hey, whatever you think is more important



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    You're exhausting to have to deal with. https://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/troubles_stats.html



    We've covered this over, and over, and over, yet you're so wedded to unionist propaganda that you'll be surprised by the numbers all over again in the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    As 'producing links' goes that is fairly conclusive proof of your point Tom.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,742 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    All that needs to happen now is for belligerent Unionism/Loyalism to accept (I think they have BTW) that an all Ireland economy is in the interests of all of us on the island. We were always linked and we always will be. The protocol is just an accommodation of the link.


    Protocol can turn Northern Ireland into an economic powerhouse (irishtimes.com)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    That's some change of tune: from calling it illegal and suggesting that the nutter legal challenge was going to be a potential game changer to acknowledging the legitimacy of the Protocol.

    Very different to what you were parroting earlier in the thread....almost like you've realised you were on a beaten docket and tried to pivot away to avoid the red face of acknowledging you were wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    No change of tune.

    this is what I was responding to “Brexit is an all UK affair that does not require the explicit consent of the people of NI but the NIP is invalid because it has not received the will of the people”

    I meant that it was legitimate in that our government could legitimately put in in place without going to a referendum as in brexit. They could also have brexited or remained without going to referendum, but they went to referendum and heard the wishes of a majority of our people.

    so don’t extrapolate ‘legitimate’ in this sense to mean that I think the protocol is acceptable in its current form. It’s not and it is entirely ‘legitimate’ to resist it and agitate against it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    You thought that it was illegal and the court case taken by Jim Allister et al was a, 'potential gamechanger'....if it was illegal then it is inherent that it wouldn't be legitimate.

    You can't ride both horses and just claim to be on whichever one doesn't fall at the first hurdle. It IS a change of tune no matter how much you deny it.


    I fully support the right of anyone to peacefully oppose it by the way. I may disagree, I may think it is misguided for supposed Unionists to rally against something which creates a strong motive for remaining part of the Union, I may think it is idiotic when the plan is to protest in Dublin, but I fully support your right to do so, no matter how ineffective I suspect it may be.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,629 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I think we are reading the use of ‘legitimate’ differently. In the context of the post I was responding to I simply meant that it would not have been legitimate to go against a referendum but that it is legitimate for a national government to go against a regional desire.



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