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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    Yeah but the point is if NPHET want it then that muppet overseeing health will sign off on it without question!

    If you honestly believe the passports thing will be dropped in Oct then I’ll PM you my address so you can send send me some of whatever it is your smoking at this hour of the morning lol



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,962 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Twas just a playful jibe Pen. I don't think anyone has the appetite for that discussion ever again.

    Ah jaysus, you've only gone and mentioned the "long COVID" now as well. It's either long COVID or the body getting rid of last weekends beer after the festival 😆

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,571 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    As much as I don't like the idea of vaccine passports, talking about them in relation to the MMR vaccine shows a complete misunderstanding of the difference between the two vaccines.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,962 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    What's not true?

    Last month we were told that the only option available to the government according to NPHET was to keep indoor shut till the end of September at the earliest or a vaccine passport. MM and Donnelly will not go against anything NPHET recommended since January. That is not going to change before this year is out.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,571 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    I've him down as more of a David Brent. A nice enough bloke, but utterly spineless, runs away from any blame or responsibility, would sell his soul for a position of power (Brent tried to sell his employees into redundancy to become the manager of the merged branches, Martin agreed to potentially put a final nail in the existence of FF to avoid the ignominy of his name on the Leaders section of the Wikipedia FF page having an asterisk beside it as being the only leader never to be Taoiseach)

    I still can't fathom how the media let him off on his nonsense before the last restriction lift.

    In the evening time,, Mehole stated that the increase in Delta would not impact the next phase of the reopening, specifically pubs.

    Not 12 hours later I woke up for work at 530am, opened the Indo app on the phone, lo and behold indoor pub reopening is looking unlikely because of the increase in Delta (this was the initial date they didn't reopen- it was after this NPHET shot themselves in the foot by saying reopen only with vaccine passes, they suggested this only because they thought the government wouldn't actually follow through on it, they must be absolutely kicking themselves that 80% of adults are now actually legally allowed enjoy themselves in a pub, absolutely sick about it they are)

    Joe Biden gets eviscerated for saying two months ago Kabul wouldn't fall like Saigon did, the clown in charge here gets a free pass for flip flopping within 12 hours. It's staggering.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    That NPHET can do as they please. Donnelly can dissolve them tomorrow if he so chooses. They are an emergency team appointed by the MoH on 27 January 2020 and that emergency is all but over. The regulations are valid until October and as our vaccination programme will not finish until September there were never going to be any moves until then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,211 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Yes technically they can be disbanded tomorrow but they won't be. Certainly not tomorrow or next month or the remainder of this year for that matter. NPHET provide a handy foil for government who can just point to them and say "they're the experts, we're just following their advice".



  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    Not a hope. We are now two months gone since Denmark and Hungary, Denmark roughly our population and Hungary twice ours, had full stadiums at the Euros.

    Every other country had, 50 to 75%, increasing as the tournament went on.

    Scotland, similar size to us, re opened indoor pubs far earlier, it hasn't fallen off some cliff. The North, oh no 9 deaths yesterday! By and large they are ticking along nicely, indoor pubs been open months.

    England, nightclubs open a month, weekly cases fell 5% last week.


    All of these countries have lower double vaccinated rates than we do, yet our government somehow seems to think we will suffer more deaths than they currently are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,962 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    He's not going to dissolve a body he can freely hid behind. I'm off the same opinion as you by the way, the ultimate responsibility lies with our elected officials. Where I disagree is that NPHET don't have a worrying amount of influence over the directions government takes.

    I also think the vaccines passport requirements should lapse in October as almost everyone will be done by then are they will be pointless. However, as it's the sensible thing to do it absolutely won't happen and will just be another piece of COVID theater kept long after it stopped being useful.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    Lads, where is the best place to keep informed as to when there's an upcoming protest? I'm off Facebook these days I can't be bothered going back in. Is it the Yellow Vest Ireland crowd that organises them?

    Yes, I know the movement is full of absolute loony tunes but I couldn't give a shyte any more. The more normal people turn out to these things the more perhaps they can influence the movement away from absolute headers like Dolores Cahill and Ben Gilroy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,962 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    The biggest difference that I can see between those counties and here is that our government were presented with modelling scenarios by NPHET that seemed completely out of kilter with observable data from elsewhere. The government still have one eye on the pessimistic projections and are terrified of that becoming a reality. It doesn't seem to matter to them that the particular scenarios they are focusing on have little grounding in reality. MM and Co will just hid behind them in order to not make any "tough" decisions.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    Didn't these only project up until the end of September?

    So is the government going to say, alright Tony, your last projections were complete bollix, none of what you predicted happened here and similar sized places like Scotland and Denmark are tipping along nicely, so we don't even want to see what you're predicting for the winter.


    Will they fcuk.


    I still can't understand- our health service didn't collapse last winter when, unvaccinated, we had 8000 per day in January. England and the North, they were treating patients in ambulances in the car parks, yet we never got to that stage.

    How can they think it will happen this year?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,357 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    There's a hurricane coming



  • Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭Parachutes


    Ah so we need more and more jabs for our “vaccine passports” to be in date. Seems the “conspiracy theorists” have magically been proven right again. Convenient for the likes of Pfizer and moderna all right, especially at 100 quid a pop.

    When are people going to stand up and say No more? We are being taken for a ride.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,962 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    That isn't how it works though. The projections for ICU and deaths cones true and they were right all along. If they don't, then the measures recommend came up gravy and they are on the right track.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    It would make my year if the Micheal Martin government was the first in the history of the state to be forced into resigning/ calling an early election by the sheer strength of street protests/ civil disobedience against it. The man should be in prison for his handling of this "crisis".



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    It's just the current plan and thinking. It really won't be that dramatic but they will see fewer signing up to them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭Parachutes


    And those people will be second class citizens, in our so called republic.

    How long till they extend the passports to going into Super-valu or even going outside to exercise to improve compliance? If we continue complying we will forever live under the pharmaceutical, public health junta that is the status quo at the minute. There’s no intention in government of going back to normality any time soon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,962 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    I think you are great overestimating the amount of dissent that is actually out there. There is still a lot of support for these restrictions and as winter comes in there may we'll be even more for further restrictions.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭Parachutes


    Big support amongst those restrictions benefit. They don’t seem to realise the bubble will burst eventually, it’s easier to sit at home and watch love island and eat pizzas all winter than it is to get off your arse and actually live a life!



  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    I keep hearing this one, yet from my day to day interactions it is only those of my parents generation and above, those who just read the paper and watch the evening news and who don't read any alternative news sources, who still believe in it.

    Most people fully bought into it until about August, September last year. Since then people have done their research- deaths within 28 days being a Covid death regardless, the NPHET report that blamed a September surge on re opened pubs but ignored schools and colleges, the media being full of stories about the tiny minority of fit and healthy young people who die or suffer Long Covid when most people in real life know of nobody young who has suffered either of these and thus can deduce that the media are hyping up outlier cases, constant manipulation of stats i.e. the amount of people "hospitalised with Covid" counting people who catch it in hospital or test positive on admission, NPHET last summer claiming only 3% of cases were travel related, lies about 10% of infected children developing long Covid when studies show it is as low as 2% if even that, deliberately vague stats from NPHET about exactly how many people can expect an adverse vaccine reaction, the shift from "protect the health system" to "protect the elderly" (both fair enough) to where we are now- well, the elderly and the hospital system are now protected but we still have to isolate to prevent teenagers catching long covid apparently.

    You tell that many lies and half truths and any population that can be bothered educating itself isn't going to listen to you.

    I have not met a single soul in real life under the age of 60 who

    a- believes the government has told the entire truth throughout this crisis

    b- believes that the government and NPHET hasn't used the crisis as cover to further its own agenda (fast forward the end of cash, artificially inflate house prices, stifle the right to protest, attempt to permanently change Ireland's cultural relationship with the pub in favour of the European meal and three drinks culture)

    c- Think the masks are about anything more than control and subservience. I'm personally on the brink of ditching mine

    I know a few women who sort of shy away from these questions, don't like to get involved types- they are sort of torn between thinking that believing this stuff puts you in the kill the elderly brigade, but deep down they know it has all been exaggerated nonsense.

    Men tend to be more vocal about it.


    In the world I live in, anybody preaching Hold Firm, anybody worried about Long Covid, anybody who thinks people like Holohan are worth listening to, would be laughed at, abused, mocked.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,210 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Which country do you think handled it best? You must have high standards if you think MM should be in jail for his handling of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    Micheal Martin knew that in the London area in the weeks prior to Christmas 1 in 30 residents were carrying the Kent variant at any given time.

    He decided to let the ex pats come home anyway, told them to stay in their bedrooms for their entire trip and seemed to believe that they would.

    This decision set us back five months, if the ex pats had not been allowed to return home we would never have went into another lockdown. Seal the Northern border to stop them coming in that way and deny them entry at southern airports. It was that simple but he couldn't be bothered.

    With travel restrictions and MHQ, the Kent variant would have crept in by about March or April, by which time our vulnerable were all single jabbed, and one jab was enough to resist the Kent variant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,440 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    You have to laugh, Tony's little puppy has already publicly stated that restrictions will continue into next year and yet we still get people saying the NPHET government will let legislation expire in the next few months. How naive can people be?



  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    Sweden.

    Martin said if we took the Swedish approach we would have suffered 2245 additional "Covid deaths".

    Given the age profile and general health of the average "Covid death", the vast majority of these people have since died of other conditions. We, on the other hand, will have copped more missed cancer screenings and more suicides than Sweden did.

    I crunched the numbers in some detail on this thread.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058202740/micheal-martin-we-saved-2245-lives-apparently/p1



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,962 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Yes and the "Gray" vote is still very important for both FG and FF. Look at the backlash they faced when trying to reform medical cards for that age group. There were mass protests and the government folded like a cheap suit. Why? Because they know that age group vote in large numbers and it would have a devastating effect on them at the ballot box.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    The grey vote is important, but young people are more political than ever. 15 years ago most people in their teens and 20s wouldn't have even been registered to vote, now they vote for SF en masse. Which considering how staggeringly complicated it is to even get yourself added to the electoral register these days is a statement in itself.

    FF know they are finished as a major party, at this stage you would expect MM himself to lose his own seat he has been so shockingly inept, it's probably at the stage where his own wife, his own twin brother, his own kids wouldn't vote for him. Their best hope is to get into coalition with SF next time around.

    FG will never in a million years go into coalition with SF- they know their best hope is to let FF and SF go at it next time around and hope they make an absolute hames of things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 620 ✭✭✭aidoh


    It broke my heart to finally realise that we truly are a little pathetic loser country.

    The insanity of vaccine passports for life-saving organ transplants is just the worst (so far) in a long list of examples of extreme over-reach from a loser government. What's next?

    People don't generally give a sh1t though and that's worse. I can't even broach the subject with most of my family and dearest friends anymore for fear of them just dismissing my observations as the paranoid rantings of a conspiracy theorist.

    I've given up. Time to sit back and watch the ride collapse from the sidelines. I won't even mourn the loss of irish society now because most of the population have already decided that it wasn't worth preserving or protecting.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭godzilla1989



    Two years and billions spent to fight something that cannot be beat

    War on Covid will go on for years



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