Novavax and the lack of Vaccine Choice

This is one of the weird things happening on boards, do you want people go give you an ego boost and treat you as a baby to encourage you to get a vaccine? I mean, there's lots of facebook pages for that.

I don't understand this "well because you're calling me an idiot, I'm going to be a bigger idiot and never take it" is it bravado, fighting against the system, genuine fear (where lots of information and data doesn't seem to help), it really sounds like you want a therapist to talk you through this. Should we have a boards safe space for you? I mean, the internet is a nasty place at times, boards is generally one of the nicer areas and people think you're being an idiot in this area, you have to own and live with that.

But, sure, tell us what type of responses you want to encourage you to get a vaccine, and I'm sure everyone will play along, for the %'s.

Er lots of people who are alive now were alive when the Church was dictating to the whole country up until the 1980s. It wasn't that long ago.

I'm having lunch with someone who was forced to go to mass against their will in the 1950s.

As long as there is this hard dictating to people on personal matters, there are going to be all sorts of unlovely comparisons made regardless of whether you find it inviduous or not.

That's an interesting comparison but you have it backwards.

All the facts and science say vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate.

The anti vaxx side is just based on gut feelings, third hand anecdotes and blind faith in controversial figureheads.

So, which side is most like the Church, do you think?

'Most of all I'm getting increasingly miffed at the ever more partisan and dogmatic stance taken on both sides. Any straying, no matter how considered from the current catechism whether that be tinfoil hat great reset lot or the trust your authorities/the science without question lot is met with dismissal and rancour. I expect that from the masks cause 5G cancer of the hair types, it's disapointing from the on the surface more reasoned types.'

Hardly equivalent in terms of either social weight or power though are they? Have any Gemmabots snatched the vaccines out of people's hands? Whereas the latter group are talking seriously about bouncing people from their jobs, and they might be able to follow through on their threats.

While I accept some of what you say one thing I question is your thinking in J&J. While it a good vaccine. It's efficacy is only fairly similar to a single shot of AZ or any of the mRNA vaccines which is 60-65%

If J&J was the only vaccine developed we would be either looking at boosters at this stage or facing into a second winter lockdown.

Also there are some on here waiting for vaccines that may not be available until mid 2022. If you make that choice is it not acceptable that you do not have the same freedoms that those who have opted for vaccines have.

As I have posted it all very well to make a big story for choice, but the reason that choice is because of the 90% of other adults that went away and got vaccinated.

Having principles about choice now is because other people have given principled people choices.

So sorry like I posted most of this being on about choice and principles is BS because other gave these people the option to have that choice. It the 90 odd% of adults that took the vaccines that opened up this country. Not so called principled bullsh!tters

You were asked what type of responses you would like to see to counter what seems to be a pretty belligerent mindset (that someone calling you stupid on the internet would make you more belligerent is a pretty petty response), take Wibbs post above, does that convince you to get a vaccine? Do you need something more reasoned than that? Would entry into a $1M lottery help? Are you looking for an echo chamber of how great you are for refusing the vaccine? growleaves has given you that.

I can post data and studies all day, and have posted them before, showing the undoubted safety of the vaccines, all the people in power have taken them, all the people who developed them have taken them, the manufacturer of them gave it to all their workers and their families, the experts are all coming down pretty hard on one side of the debate, what have you got to counter that weight of evidence other than "it's new", which chatting to anyone who developed the vaccines would counter pretty quickly (reddit has a number of threads like that). I expect some people won't follow that. But to go back to your opening gambit, you want to be given a choice of a vaccine that hasn't finished trials and hasn't been approved yet and expect everyone else to wait around for that, the world is moving on, restrictions will lift, the unvaccinated will start finding themselves in a pretty sh*tty place very quickly (and if you go to the vaccine passports thread and read my older posts, I didn't think they would come in for anything other than travel but delta put paid to that idea), unless you think there's a worldwide conspiracy against you, the arguments start making less and less sense.

This is how vaccination programmes work. You never get to 100%. A proportion of the population, ideally a very high proportion, will get vaccinated and they provide the so-called herd immunity. MMR currently is at about 92% which is a little low for measles, yet we don't hunt down parents, nor force children to be vaccinated. 

I'm not sure where you get your data on the principles of the people getting vaccinated. Some are looking after themselves and their loved ones, some are doing what they are told, some out of fear of the virus, some are doing it for a greater good but some are also getting it to get back to normal life or to hang out with their friends and in one case I know someone feeling forced into getting the vaccine. It doesn't matter why it just matters that they do.

The irony is here though is that the unvaccinated would be elevated to a better level of social perception in your eyes if they did. 

Every 1% we can get beyond our current level is a cause for public health celebration but we won't get there by being nasty to people or excluding them from parts of society. 

You can see in the commentary by both the CMO and Paul Reid that they understand the need to continue to remind and persuade people to sign up. They certainly don't care about justifications for doing so just that people do it.  

I've been here a long time and seen all sorts of arguments, people are here for information not pats on the back for sticking to their principles, how about instead of complaining about others putting pressure on, you present your own arguments to the refuseniks, shouting "leave them alone" isn't going to do much.

Has Ireland ordered any Valneva yet ?

I think only the UK has confirmed orders with Valneva looking at bi-lateral deals with individual countries, it's probably a Q1/2022 vaccine, depending on how the trials turn out.

Eu has done "exploratory" talks but no firm deal yet.