What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

TBF the range of change in Justice/Laws that happens without any effort to inform the public counts a lot for that.

I wouldn't be surprised by the misinterpretations or false beliefs people have about Irish law, because I know that many of my own assumptions have been proven incorrect over the decades... but that's the way things are. Until you're in a position to actually find out (either for personal/professional reasons, or a seriously researched boards post) very few people would ever invest much time in learning the way the law (and how laws are implemented) really works. Just as people can assume some kind of misplaced expertise on legal matters, bluffing that they won't be challenged.. because, most people don't really have a clue what's going on.

Whereas I would argue that the legal system has evolved to be technical and convoluted so that those with the time/education have a advantage over anyone who doesn't. I've seen a wide variety of threads on boards over the years with posters arguing points of interpretation with regards to laws, each being sure that they know better than everyone else. It essentially boiled down to whoever had the greatest endurance to keep the argument going. The laws we have today are rarely clear cut, and simple to understand/apply for the lay person. And on top of which, there is the flexibility of interpretations by courts themselves (and political pressure) when applying those laws, which makes the overall online debate even more unreliable.

I for one am delighted we live in a country where everyone's rights are upheld, regardless of background, status or wealth.

We live in a democratic country, where, thankfully our human rights are observed.

That's awfully naive. Have you seen the costs associated with many areas connected with the law, and solicitors? The costs themselves, which seem to rise every year, prevent many people from fighting for their rights, and little changes to how government organs work, moves a lot of work which would originally been free, into the hands of the solicitors.

A friend of mine (as I am too, but our circumstances are different) is moving abroad, and needed a criminal clearance letter from the Gardai, who want a certified photocopy of an ID as part of the request. Which is fine since the Gardai themselves could do that in the stations, however, in recent years the Gardai have been distancing themselves from that kind of paperwork/administration, which means we have to go to a solicitor, who charge for every single signature or stamp. And since in most visa applications, the criminal clearance letter needs to be certified too, once obtained, that means going back to the solicitor for another set of signatures.. all of which adds up in cost.

For a different example, I have a relation who has land (part of which has an inheritance) in West Galway, and wants to deal with the illegal quarrying that has been going on there. The Gardai know who is involved but won't do anything except to issue useless warnings. They need the judgment of the courts to reinforce any warnings, but my relation doesn't have the 10k plus to spend on solicitor letters, court applications, etc... all leading to a very dubious outcome, even though the law on land ownership and their usage are clear. The only thing he has going for him is that he's got some government body interested in protecting the environment interested. On his own, he wouldn't be able to do much without forking out the cash.. with political help, he has a chance.. [although considering the way people live in west Galway, there's little chance of stopping such behavior long term, unless he lives on the land himself. ]

You're right to uphold our culture as being a place where peoples rights are generally upheld. That's a definite plus, however rights are regularly disregarded in favor of the greater good. Just as the rising costs in many areas, means that many people are excluded or pushed into unnecessary difficulties because... reasons. It's not all roses and daffodils with regards to our laws, and equality is still very much a pipedream when comparing those who have money to burn vs those struggling.

In Ireland, cost of services is generally what excludes people, since the law (and those who work it) have so much power here.

The inability to edit/multi-quote/quote individual paragraphs is killing me. :D

Democracy has been slowly dying for decades now, and not by the efforts of migrants. It's been dying due to our own politicians decreasing the power of the electorate and introducing layers to protect themselves when crap goes wrong. I wouldn't consider democracy to be a sticking point over immigration or multiculturalism. Of more importance is social stability, and the growth of lower socio-economic groups, along with increased demands on the state services, which has been seen in other countries as a result of multiculturalism.

As for human rights, I'm now and always have been very skeptical about the existence and actual protections of individual rights in society... but that's a discussion for another thread.

I don't mind change.. if it's properly prepared for. Which is why I'm so against multiculturalism, and feel good gestures towards immigration. There's so little long term planning involved, or consideration towards the effects on society over any kind of extended period. Every action is based on the now, as opposed to considering what kind of country, the following generations will have to deal with. Which is a reflection of avoidance that exists throughout our political and social systems. Avoid the hard issues and make soft gestures as a means of deflection.

As for boards, it's clunky now when before it was efficient and very easy to use. Shiny screens and buttons to impress the teenagers.

If its once and they got firm about enforcing the immigration regulations once and for all that one thing but I think we all know that this will just happen periodically perpetually if it happens once. I think there will be an interesting legal case to be taken if they aren't made to pay tax and whoever employed them isn't made to pay employers PRSI etc. Presumably under the scheme you will need to prove you have been here and working for someone or for yourself, I think any Irish or European citizen could take a case under the equality act if there is tax forgiveness for one group (non-citizens) or if employers get a benefit (not having to pay employers PRSI) from having employed non nationals without work permits I think there is also a case that could be taken there.