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New 2021 Assistant Principal in the Civil Service

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭urgelgru


    I've done a lot of the tests over the years. I even recognised some of the data sets from previous years! And I was looking out for the "Not able to say" options for ranges of years because that has come up and it's a good trick but unfortunately it didn't work on the set of questions I had.

    I think I was extra panicky this year because I'm in a work situtation that I would REALLY like to get out of it and AP is a possible avenue out. 😔



  • Registered Users Posts: 30 Maelenn


    Thanks agnena! It's always quite hard to know how well or not we did on these tests


    Best of luck everyone!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭billyhead


    In relation to the SJ test. A lot of the statements made as to what you would do or not are obvious as a manager. Use your judgement but you need to always be mindful of the soft skills an AP must possess when making your choice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 706 ✭✭✭SATSUMA


    Numerical was ridiculous. What are they hoping to achieve?



  • Registered Users Posts: 19 Longfordgal


    Hi folks, in regards to the Management Scenarios, can we use an answer from the rating scale more than once in each example?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    This.

    Like, what PO or Head of X or A/Sec is going to give those sort of scenarios to an AP and insist the AP provide the analysis? Even if they did give it to an AP who doesn't pass it on to an EO or HEO, you'd copy and paste the data into Excel and there's all your maths, done, in a couple of clicks? You want graphs? We can do them wholesale!

    It is a hoop; through it, we must jump!



  • Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭crinkley


    Just finished verbal and numerical. Always do well with verbal and had plenty of time left. The numerical was disastrous, usually I just aim to pass so don't worry too much as the end score isn't taken into consideration its simply used to cull people, but I certainly found it harder than last years comp. Fingers crossed the pass mark is lower. Will tackle the situational test at lunch



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Yenwod


    Since PAS has gone the way to 3rd party exams, the inconsistency of the level of the nummerical is all over the place. The goalposts just keep changing. For the 2016 HEO comp, the nummerical was more about being able to understand and deduce information from a graph, numbers, stats etc. A much more realistic take on the work someone in the civil service might need to do. Never in my CS career have I ever needed to figure out how much extra water I needed if I had a 3/4 full cup and spilled 1/2 of it but needed 50% more 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Kenrach




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 706 ✭✭✭SATSUMA


    I have done all three tests I think it's fair to say I pretty much tanked the lot! I have done many serious professional exams in my life and even they weren't quite like those...🤣 Plus I noticed some spelling errors in the questions... do I get a bonus point for that? I am not sure that could save me so I will leave it be 😋



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Yenwod


    One of the practise ones yeah 🤣 - I haven't braved the real one yet



  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭taato


    Well that was a couple of hours of my life that i’ll never get back. I never know with the situational judgement tests, but usually do ok in numerical… not this time though. With time they are all dooable, but with the clock ticking it’s nigh on impossible to get the calculations done. The verbal reasoning was tricky this year too. Hmmmm, not expecting to survive the cull.



  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Avenger2020


    If we all tank it they'll just have to send us all through! And maybe develop a better way of testing people's capabilities - or let people with the experience through to interview at least!



  • Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭Curranjo


    The tests were brutal. Had to take a break before I attempt the judgment test but say I’m a goner already



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    No additional tools required for the numerical/quantitative ability? How is that possible?!

    I can only do tests once also.



  • Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭FenFlynn


    Wouldn't that just be great, but I doubt anyone did as bad as I did. Got to stop procrastinating and leave it behind until results are out. The more I reflect the more I consider how bad I've done, and how I probably should have waited till tomorrow so more practice could be done.

    Hope we hear soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    Does practice really help? I thought they were meant to be about natural ability?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Not sure if this type of job/sector would be something I would be interested in. Or if I am the type of candidate they would be interested in!

    But, having read about the process on this site down through the years and listening to friends/family, I submitted an application.

    I did the test yesterday. Some things that struck me:

    1) the situational assessment, it seemed fair enough. I could see (I think) what they were probing in each instance. The action taken should be specific to your role with consideration on impact on entire organisation. That said, if I retook it I'm sure I would struggle to answer the same way again.

    2) verbal. Time pressure was tricky but got it finished. A few little trip hazards - double negatives etc.

    3) numerical. The fonts used were atrocious. I had trouble distinguishing between 5 & 6, in some instances. Some sneaky footnotes, that were crucial, but easily missed. Time pressure was more pronounced in this, for me.

    I got it finished but, when I was labouring, I began to do computations in my head and made best estimates. I reckon I did 80% of it properly - not that I expect that I got all of the 80% correct!

    4) Seems like a very blunt instrument to get a candidate. But I can see the need for it, particularly when you have a popular competition.

    5) The instructions said that you could stop numerical/verbal at any time but then you would return to the start.

    Does this mean you could 'abort' if you were doing badly? Compose yourself and go again?? If so, are there different questions each time? If not, what is to stop you aborting it after 99% of it and returning to it having already had a look (or screen grab of the questions).

    If the questions are different each time, how is it fair? I might get an easier run of questions compared to another.

    If the questions are the same, but with different numbers, having an eyeball of them all in advance will allow you to hone your methodology for the final attempt.

    Just a thought...

    6) I can't see how you can practice or study in advance for such an assessment. Which is good, IMHO.

    Anyways, that's my uninformed 2c's.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    Verbal and numerical must be completed in a single sitting…



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  • Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭Curranjo


    although it says that in the first brief we received, when you go to take verbal/numerical test, it does say you can exit out of it and restart the test. Now it doesn't say if you still have 25 mins to do the test. I was thinking the same as KaneToad, whats to stop someone from reviewing questions first and then trying again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭InsideEdge


    Just finished the tests and like most people I thought the numerical reasoning was a lot harder this time round, I didn't get close to completing it. Verbal reasoning was just ok but I managed to finish and the situational judgement part could be moot!



  • Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭FenFlynn


    It helped me with my AO competition. After failing 3 times, the last time I did it I bought a package and practiced intensively for a month and I got top 100 in OOM. This time I merely gave it a week, could definitely see the difference.

    There were tutorials in one of the packages showing how to do currency questions (I got 3 currency graphs, just my luck). I thought the currencies were too complicated to learn, so I brushed that aside never delved too much into them. They appeared in the test which really threw me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    The instructions in the PAS message do state this:

    D. You do not need to complete all 3 assessments at the same time or even on the same day, however each of the ability assessments (Verbal and Numerical) must be completed in a single sitting as these are timed assessments. The Situational Judgement Questionnaire can be started and resumed later.

    But I'm fairly sure the instructions on the SHL site were slightly different. They definitely mentioned that you go back to the start of you exit the numerical/verbal. I can't check now as the link won't work on a phone. Maybe someone with a laptop can check?

    I suppose it's possible that they mean that, if you exit before completing, you have to go back to the start but the time doesn't reset ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Kenrach


    So completed all 3 today...I honestly think they were the same as the 2020 AP tests. Hard to know if I hit the mark. Hopefully we're not waiting too long for results.



  • Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭Curranjo




  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Avenger2020


    Thanks. But what do you mean in 2 by “double negatives”??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,366 ✭✭✭✭Rikand




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 925 ✭✭✭Vologda69


    I did it last year. Got about 70% in verbal, 58% in numerical and lost out in SJT by two marks. Verbal this year I found ok and had some time left. Numerical was a disaster and was very similar to last year, graphs were a nightmare. Guessed most of them. Spent more time thinking through SJT this time. I do find practice helps. But numerical will drag me down this year.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Avenger2020


    So do show up late for work 😁 double negatives cancel each other. Ah PAS are getting tricky - under pressure I probably would give a wrong answer to that. But people who use double negatives in real life work situations need their heads examined!! Or should I say they need not need to unexamine their heads… Shakespeare 😂



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