Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

MBE220d · 17-08-2021 11:26am

For anyone that thinks that the asylum seekers in direct provision for years are genuine.

Just ask yourself the question, why are they still there years later. Simple really.

crooked cockney villain · 17-08-2021 1:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765944#Comment_117765944

The come one come all crowd know this full well. Sorcha Pollak has at least twice run articles with people who blatantly state they are there for economic convenience. They just don't care. These people will say "we can help both" yet given the choice of the state buying a specially adapted flat for a disabled child and their family, or a one bed flat for Abdul the 35 year old child refugee, every last one of this mob would spit in the child's face.

Fandymo · 17-08-2021 1:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765755#Comment_117765755

Handy for the bleeding heart backstory when they are told to leave. "He was such a help to the community". 🙄

crooked cockney villain · 17-08-2021 5:27pm

Given the numbers of Afghans we are to take seems to double by the day, perhaps some of the femininsts banking on about it would take a look at this.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12066/germany-rape-crisis

January, Feb and March of 2018. All of the reports backed with links to mainstream media that reported them.

The word "Afghan" appears TWENTY FOUR times in the article. And that is only where an attacker was apprehended and his identity therefore could be confirmed. Some attacks involved multiple assailants

There are 250,000 Afghans in Germany as per Wikipedia. 20 times less than the population of the Republic of Ireland.

Extrapolated, if the Irish population had the same offending rate, we would see in the region of 480 stranger on stranger sex attacks in the first three months of 2018 in this country.

Would we normally see that many in a decade?

.

enricoh · 17-08-2021 7:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117766482#Comment_117766482

We are now taking in 300 afghans, various charities/ quangos calling for 1000 absolute minimum. No doubt it'll be 1000.

There's 3 properties to rent in limerick city at the minute on daft, 3! New blood required , we gotta keep the 'housing crisis' going!

https://www.daft.ie/property-for-rent/limerick-city

crooked cockney villain · 17-08-2021 8:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117768686#Comment_117768686

I'm fairly sure Simon Coveney wanted 20,000 Syrians at one stage.

Irish politics is full of chancers, crooks, sleevens, snakes, but I'm not sure there are any as sinister as dyed in the wool Pan European Globalists like Leo, Harris and most glaringly the Bilderberger himself Coveney. FF's raison d'etre is often confined so county level pay offs- FG are more into selling our bodies on an international market.

Maybe it's recency bias but I honestly don't think "European/ Global citizen before my birth one" types like Macron, Tredeau, Merkel, Starmer and the aforementioned three were really a thing before this century.

Patrick2010 · 17-08-2021 10:55pm

Matt Cooper had his usual balanced guests on his show this evening, Brid Smith and Colm O Gorman both in agreement that we should be taking in far more refugees .

when Matt read out texts from people that we can’t house our own population the two of them insisted we could do both.

According to Brid the country is full of empty houses.

17-08-2021 11:24pm

She's dead right, it is full of empty houses.

irishproduce · 17-08-2021 11:48pm

We really should be taking in more of these Afghan refugees. They're genuine and they're deserving of help security and safety.

The big problem is, we've thousands clogging up the system who shouldn't be here and aren't deserving so what we've got is a situation where because of the bleeding hearts pushing bogus lads from around the world on us, there now is an actual discussion on whether we can take in real refugees. We shouldn't even have to consider it. They should be welcomed in asap. It's crazy but it's where we find ourselves. Hope those that insisted we take more bogus migrants are happy.

John Doe1 · 18-08-2021 1:02am

I have no doubt certain elements within goverment and lobby groups will use the legitimate need to provide asylum to Afghans to open the doors even further to every Tom, Dick and Mohammed chancher who want a few more bob in their back pocket while hating our values.

archfi · 18-08-2021 7:42am

If the authorities had any sense at all or even the brain to use this as a PR exercise that would assuage very legitimate concerns that many in the public have, they would match the legitimate Afghan asylum seeker/refugee intake with enforcing the actual deportation of those wandering the country with...deportation orders. Within possible weeks, our citizenship will be doled out without question to up to 20,000 non-legitimate asylum seekers and fraudulent chancers by the weakest of political parties both in power and out that I have seen in decades.

1,000 legitimate in - 1,000 frauds out.

They need to face down the likes of O'Gorman and the myriad 'not-for-profit' setups and think about the good of Ireland for once.

18-08-2021 7:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117769688#Comment_117769688

What about the Afghan asylum seekers who are already here?

Are they bogus or genuine?

The_Kew_Tour · 18-08-2021 8:48am

More then welcome to see Ireland help out people who are fleeing basically being killed.

The sad thing is that because of the bogus claims here we won't be able to help out as many as we should. People will try and blame this and that but reality will be the main reason being people who are here who should not be.

Let's hope we can still help a good chunk of families.

18-08-2021 1:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770005#Comment_117770005

O'Gorman and the Greens are a tiny party. The simple fact is FF/FG are quite happy with the current system. It's FG who are currently handing out tens of thousands of Irish citizenships to people who have broken our laws.

There is no party in Ireland who wants to end the abuses of our system.

SF will be even worse, a party who want to overturn our birth laws etc etc.

18-08-2021 1:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770023#Comment_117770023

Some are bogus, as can be seen throughout Europe, where Germany, Spain , Netherlands etc were in the process of deporting them up until last week.

Why do you consistently ask ridiculous open ended questions?

Patrick2010 · 18-08-2021 3:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117769631#Comment_117769631

If Ireland is full of empty houses why have such long waiting lists?, are you including half built ghost estates in the back of beyonds?

18-08-2021 3:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117769506#Comment_117769506

Will Brid ever put a number on it? Should we bring in 20,000,000, 1 billion etc. How many?

crooked cockney villain · 18-08-2021 5:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117769506#Comment_117769506

The concept of "we can do both" is routinely used by these people to justify this type of thing. It deserves examining.

Can the Irish state provide an adaquate amount of affordable and social housing for its own citizens, plus similar for refugees? Absolutely it can. Housing is already ridiculously affordable in most of the BMW (border, midlands, West region), it is only people living within easy driving distance of Dublin, and in the immediate vicinity of Cork city, probably Galway city, who struggle to find an affordable home- to alleviate the housing crisis the government only needs to build a few thousand cost price/ social homes per year in our urban areas, which in turn will lead to a fall in the cost of existing homes
Should they? IMO no, even if the governent did pull the finger out and deliver affordable 3 bed homes at 160k a go (the cost price of building a 3 bed terrace on council owned land in Dublin is circa 160K), refugees and asylum seekers have done nothing to deserve them.

But let's ignore my opinion- can the government deliver affordable/ social housing, plus house a few thousand refugees per year?

Yes. It can. It, however, refuses to, but puts up its hand at every given opportunity to fast track these services to whatever refugee crisis is flavour of the month.

This is where it gets interesting.

PBP "It doesn't need to be a contest, we can do both!"

FG "Well maybe we can do both, but the EU wants a dig out so we will only do one- we will give a few thousand essentially free homes to refugees while working people sweat blood to get deposits or never get one because they're stuck in 1600 per month rentals"

PBP "Fair enough so"

What sort of opposition is this? We can do both, but we won't do both, and nobody in our political system has a problem with which of the two vying groups will end up getting the assistance. It's insane.

I'd somewhat agree with a small number of Afghan programme refugees being put in some sort of communal establishment for a few years, get a job, work towards their own deposit.

Instead the plan here seems to be come in, here's a house after three months, whether you want to bother working is your own prerogative.

enricoh · 18-08-2021 6:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117772230#Comment_117772230

No chance of a number! Just tax the rich, the bankers, landlords, the fat cats etc etc

18-08-2021 7:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117772207#Comment_117772207

Because the waiting lists are people waiting on houses from the council. Beside their mammies. Nothing else will do.

18-08-2021 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771432#Comment_117771432

Right.

So last month Afghans were bogus asylum seekers, this month they are not.

Right.

18-08-2021 7:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117773169#Comment_117773169

I never said that. Yet again you know that though and once again you are deflecting.

A temporary hold was put on deportations because of the unfolding situation in Afghanistan, it doesn't change the fact that they failed in their asylum applications.

Not all countries have stopped deportation though, I believe Austria have said they will continue due to pressure from the public following the rape and murder of a 13 year old girl by a group of Afghan asylum seekers.

20-08-2021 1:02am

Surely any currently here are free to go home.

The Taliban weren't in power when they came here to begin with so it should be safe for them.

Also people need to bare in mind those already in DP arrived on commercial flights from Europe or other safe countries and what that tells you is they aren't genuine asylum seekers.

Real Donald Trump · 20-08-2021 3:39am

Coveney must have one big gaff to house all these lads

Mike Murdock · 20-08-2021 2:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117778823#Comment_117778823

Under the Dublin Regulation, we can send those that arrive from another European country right back there.

It just requires enforcement

20-08-2021 2:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117780587#Comment_117780587

not exactly right.

Mike Murdock · 20-08-2021 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117780659#Comment_117780659

How so? It was designed to stop Asylum Shopping.

20-08-2021 2:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117780587#Comment_117780587

I understand that.

Ive worked in an industry where ive dealt with AS and I've seen many of their interview papers.

They all came via a safe European country.

I did encounter one Afghan, he was deported from the UK, left again and went through 10 countries back to the UK and then down here through the north and he application was multiple years pending at that point(maybe 4 to 6 years iirc).

So that's the kind of application we have pending long term, someone who should have been an instant rejection on two counts.

24-08-2021 8:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117773169#Comment_117773169

That's correct. Last month they lived under the most liberal and free democracy in the area. Thanks to Biden's incompetence they don't anymore.

24-08-2021 8:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117769688#Comment_117769688

Why should we? I mean, there's wars ongoing throughout the world all the time.. Afghanistan has simply received more attention because the US was involved. Would you advocate taking in refugees from all warzones or places where the government has fallen?

The big problem is this desire to place the needs of foreigners above the needs to our existing population (regardless of whether they're Irish natives or foreign born). Ireland has serious problems with both our own population at the bottom of the socio-economic scale, along with the thousands of migrants (Asylum/refugees/migrants) who were previously allowed into Ireland, but remain at the bottom of our society in terms of employment and living standards.

There is a tendency in this country to be always looking forward to the next issue, rather than dealing with the problems that currently exist. Taking in more people merely places greater strain on a series of systems already struggling with current demands. In many cases, such as DP or those related to accepted refugees, the systems are just there to maintain a particular status, doing little to integrate them into Irish society, ensuring that they're educated to a standard to compete effectively with other people in Ireland, and provide an adequate standard of living without government supports. There is so little interest in dealing with the problems that currently exist here.

So, we add in more refugees promising to provide for them, but ensuring that most live in an expensive country, as poor people. Lovely.

24-08-2021 9:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117795958#Comment_117795958

They were plenty of areas in Afghanistan that were ruled by the Taliban before last week. you know that.

I'm interested, do you think we, as a country, should take refugees? Do you think countries should interfere in other countries? When ?

Jinglejangle69 · 24-08-2021 4:45pm

So there is 38 million people in Afghanistan.

Are we expected to take the whole 38 million people?

How many does Bríd want us to take?

enricoh · 24-08-2021 7:28pm

Coveney had to come out of hiding after the zappone gig and Afghanistan done the job perfectly. Getting the Irish citizens out was an afterthought to the grand statesman!

There is no upper figure jingle jangle. We were the third most indebted country in the developed world pre covid, the government is spending money like water at the mo and the golden goose that pays for literally everything the multinationals will be less attracted to Ireland after tax changes.

Only this week the minister whose brief it is , is doing an amnesty for 17k here illegally. Imo there's gonna be a lot of disappointed illegals if it is limited to 17k. Theres 8k in direct provision who will be getting an amnesty due to covid. Zero deportations since covid started. Throw in family reunification on top for good measure!

Any issues with any of that n yer a big bad waysist! Now anyone for a temporary covid rebuilding tax!

irishproduce · 24-08-2021 10:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117796000#Comment_117796000

My point was that we should be opening our door and welcoming as many genuine refugees as we can facilitate (wherever they may be from but in this case, clearly those fleeing Afghanistan meet the criteria). But that as a result of having been forced by leftist pressure to take in all manner of chancers heretofore, that we find ourselves in a situation that we are not actually in a reasonable situation to take in genuine cases as we're bogged down with chancers.

So in a way you and I are in agreement. We shouldn't be adding further pressure to the system. Agreed. But the pressure built up historically is of the bogus type. Which is a shame now really because of where we find things in Afghanistan.

24-08-2021 11:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117799591#Comment_117799591

My point was that we should be opening our door and welcoming as many genuine refugees as we can facilitate (wherever they may be from but in this case, clearly those fleeing Afghanistan meet the criteria)

Again.. why should we? (I'm not going to repeat my points from the previous post).

>>>But that as a result of having been forced by leftist pressure to take in all manner of chancers heretofore, that we find ourselves in a situation that we are not actually in a reasonable situation to take in genuine cases as we're bogged down with chancers.

There's little difference on immigration and asylum when it comes to our politicians. The argument of the left/right is a smokescreen to avoid recognising the commonality between the political groups on certain issues. TBH, the left/right has little relevance when it comes to Irish politics, and their desire to virtue signal.

>>>So in a way you and I are in agreement. We shouldn't be adding further pressure to the system. Agreed. But the pressure built up historically is of the bogus type. Which is a shame now really because of where we find things in Afghanistan.

(Can't get the handle of the new quote system, sorry.)

No... Bogus claims, even those who were admitted into Ireland wouldn't be that high. Asylum accounts for a tiny portion of our numbers of immigration over the last two decades. Those in appeals are an issue, but it's a political issue, because the politicians don't want deportations, and they know that appeals fatten the coffers of the legal profession, and the NGOs who are loved in government house. We're just leaving two decades of extreme pro-multiculturalism from the EU, and our politicians have spent that time doing everything they could to pander to the European governments.... that's why our system is a mess. In addition the expectation that Asylum should provide facilities and services beyond what should be available, stretches resources, and makes the overall system unworkable.

Afghanistan shouldn't be a consideration. It's not our problem. We weren't involved in the Coalition efforts. Let the US take in 20-30k Afghans fleeing the area.. God knows, they have enough territory and resources to provide for them. But that's not going to happen. And so, to appear virtuous and to stave off the impression that our economy is a mess, our politicians will guarantee that we bring in hundreds, if not thousands of Afghans.. providing them with squat. A problem for the next government, and the next, and the next... etc. It's a stacked deck with Irish people being made to cough up for crap that does nothing to improve their lifestyles, and provides a wide range of very expensive issues, to make life more difficult overall...

Wouldn't it be nice if we have an RTE that put the interests of the nation first, and put the hard questions to the politicians and NGOs, about the impact on Irelands economy and society?

25-08-2021 12:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117796035#Comment_117796035

Not that many compared to the free parts. I think we should take refugees, yes absolutely. Should countries interfere in other countries? Mostly no, unless their own security is threatened.

25-08-2021 8:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117799992#Comment_117799992

So why should we take refugees then?

And why should Biden be responsible for the citizens of Afghanistan?

Hamachi · 25-08-2021 8:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117799992#Comment_117799992

We shouldn’t be taking in any Afghans. Ireland played zero role in current situation that pertains in that country. If ‘the West’ is required to absorb refugees, the US should be the primary destination.

What does it achieve exactly with Ireland taking in 500-1000 Afghans? It’s not even a drop in the ocean. Surely, those resources are better spent by providing aid to support them in safe zones in that region. It makes zero sense bringing them to Ireland, where they will likely live on the margins of society for generations.

I guess Coveney sees this as a way to burnish his ‘great statesman’ mantle. However, as the Zappone affair exposed, the emporer has no clothes.

Mr. teddywinkles · 25-08-2021 10:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117773042#Comment_117773042

I must be the rich so because theres tax increases every budget on normal working people.

Mr. teddywinkles · 25-08-2021 10:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117798167#Comment_117798167

I think people who make absurd statements about migrant quotas like her should be made take in 10 right into their own home by law.

Hamachi · 25-08-2021 1:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117800837#Comment_117800837

Now that’s something I would pay to see. Maybe RTÉ could film a reality TV show around the scenario: At home with the fish wife and her 10 Afghans’..

Galwayguy35 · 26-08-2021 7:41pm

A British reporter was on The Last Word earlier on and mentioned a member of ISIS already made it to France posing as an Afghan refugee, that puts to bed the argument that everyone is properly vetted before being sent to the various countries taking them in.

Cooper of course hurried the discussion along and didn't make any comment on this at all.

I'm not blaming the soldiers either they are in an impossible situation trying to sort this mess out.

Speaking of a mess sure when we have Coveney and O Gorman on the job back here at home what could possibly go wrong!

breezy1985 · 26-08-2021 7:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807680#Comment_117807680

But they caught that ISIS person coming in so that could also prove the system works

Galwayguy35 · 26-08-2021 7:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807710#Comment_117807710

If the system worked he wouldn't have made to to France at all, we are constantly being told everyone is vetted before they enter a country but its now clear terrorists are able to make it through.

26-08-2021 8:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807759#Comment_117807759

Where was he caught then?

enricoh · 26-08-2021 8:49pm

What is the story with this does anyone know? This fella has bought 15 houses and apartments for people in direct provision to move into. He's a philanthropist apparently so fair enough he can spend his money as he likes. But at the end of the article he's bemoaning the delay and as a result there's a cash burn. Were these to be rented back to the government?

Is this the next gravy train taxpayers are to be subjected to? Sounds like it

https://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/news/659097/fifteen-empty-portlaoise-homes-waiting-a-year-for-direct-provision-families.html

26-08-2021 9:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807953#Comment_117807953

Seems to be, its registered as a company not even an AHB or a charity. I would expect that hes like a lot of people you see who want the label of philantrophist and the cache that comes out of that label but is going to bleed the State to do so. He gambled that they would want this at any cost rather than it all having to be tendered for etc. If he was actually concerned about people he would not let so much housing stock lie empty

Mike Murdock · 27-08-2021 7:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807953#Comment_117807953

He's not a philanthropist. If he were, he would be funding the entire venture out of his pocket and not looking for the Government to rent his properties off him. If he were a philanthropist, he'd be paying for every little thing (food, bills, education, healthcare) for the asylum seekers himself.

Plus he talks about kids growing up in hotels "segregated". There are lots of Irish kids in the same situation and he has had 15 properties vacant for some time. Why not address that issue first?

16-09-2021 10:25pm

https://www.thejournal.ie/eu-pact-on-migration-5549645-Sep2021/

Thoughts on this newly released piece?

Seems to me like this is the tune O'Gormans been dancing to.

20-09-2021 12:46pm

Has anyone ever heard this before apparently theres a seperate planning process for asylum centres as long as they're on State land. Its all just rubber stamps, not even subject to appeal.

"“In exploring the model of more State centres, we need to agree and acquire a capital budget,” the briefing stated.

“State land does not require planning permission for new centres as the Minister has a power under the Acts, whereby the OPW can grant the planning permission and this is usually a three-month process. It is not subject to appeal.”

The document says that State centres “can also have a bigger footprint as it will be a permanent fixture in the locality”. In recent years a number of plans for private providers to open direct provision centres in regional towns have been met with protests from locals and anti-immigration activists."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/officials-pushed-for-state-to-buy-direct-provision-centres-from-private-firms-1.4678208

Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

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