What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Yeah because Europeans never went to war against each other, not a single instance of that. Not one single thing I can remember form history that might fit as conflict between European countries.

Now were did I put my poppy lapel pin.

Indeed Cordell do you think we should all hide under our beds in fear lest our neighbour kill us or the sky fall in?

I would say if you and I walked outside holding hands and looked at the sky together you would disagree with my opinion of what colour it was Wojtek!

PS: right now its blue!

All the usual talking points, or rather the sloganeering you know as well as I do doesn’t change anything, it doesn’t even stem immigration, it certainly doesn’t do anything to address failed social policies, the kind of policies which lead to people being condemned to live in poverty, who you call our native spongers, which you say you can do nothing about. The colour of their skin has nothing to do with point when the vast majority of people affected by these failed social policies are the same colour as the people who engineered them and promote them. That’s the natives btw, as opposed to immigrants. You can’t do anything about immigration policies either.

I don’t think there’s any point in entertaining your daft narratives when nobody, nobody has ever argued any such thing as supporting immigrants to commit fraud. What we actually have is a bureaucratic mess as a result of generations of failed social policies which have led to our current circumstances in Ireland at least where we’re simply unable to cope with the numbers of immigrants coming into the country.

That’s not a consequence of multiculturalism, it’s a consequence of failed social policies which govern a society and direct a society. What we have here is nothing more than simply history repeating itself and people looking for a scapegoat.

I seen some posters still trotting the line about what are the negatives. Here's a couple of examples from some major EU countries.

mi5 believe there's 43000 potential jihadi attackers now living in the UK.

In Denmark integration has failed so badly the Government now force these parallel communities into integration classes, refusing to do so results in their benefits being cut.

Sweden has many problems like being forced to have women only attendees for its largest music festival due to sexual assaults, but the rise in gang violence over there is there all for to see. A few years back they didn't track grenade attacks because it was a non issue, now there's hundreds every year.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50339977

"It's very new in Sweden, and we are looking for knowledge around the world," says Mats Lovning, head of the National Operations Department.

For criminologist Amir Rostami, who has researched the use of hand grenades in Sweden, the only relevant comparison is Mexico, plagued by gang violence.

"This is unique in countries that pretty much don't have a war or don't have a long history of terrorism," he says."

France had to ban any public showings of their world cup games in 2018 due to the fear of terrorism.

""I call the attention of elected representatives to the fact that fan zones with large screens cannot be organised in open public space,” said Gerard Collomb, France’s interior minister.

"In the context of the current terrorist threat, the requirements that prevailed during the European football championships [in 2016] will again have to be applied.”

We can talk about Molenbeek in Belgium or the New year's eves rapes in Germany that were tried to be covered up but the biggest problem of all is the tension all these problems bring.

Far right groups and more and more right wing or populist governments have been rising in power over the last decade or so and imo that is a pure symptom of a bigger problem, which is an absolute failure across the board of integration and assimilation of migrants who came from places with incompatible values. The man on the street can see it even here in Ireland, so not sure why certain posters can't.

For each point I posted a link from the times, time.com, bbc and euronews backing up the claim. I think it's you, or perhaps your worldview unwilling to accept valid counter arguments, that has the problem, not me.

Now if only Sweden would release crime statistics based on ethnicity so there wouldn't be any ambiguity. I wonder why they changed that a few years back.

If I have to spell it out for you

https://www.ft.com/content/8cfa6212-4270-4962-a200-949a868c7cbe

Sweden’s democracy could be threatened if the country fails to get a grip on gang violence and allows parallel societies to develop in its inner-city areas, the head of Sweden’s police force has warned. Anders Thornberg told the Financial Times that Sweden faced a growing threat as incidents of shootings and bombings between rival gangs rise and family-based clans tighten their grip over some areas.

“If we don’t talk about this, then it could be a big problem. It’s not a threat to our democracy yet. But if you have certain groups standing outside of society, we will have a huge problem,” he said. Sweden has suffered a wave of shootings, hand grenade attacks and bombings in recent years, particularly in the immigrant-dominated suburbs of Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmo, its largest cities.

Do you reckon there’s any room for negotiation between those extreme characterisations? 😁

There are people condemned to live in poverty, the spongers who you say you can do nothing about, and yet here you are coming up with ideas as to how immigration policies should function according to you, but don’t, because there’s ne’er a native politician supports your ideas.

I didn’t suggest it was anyone’s fault that anyone from other cultures don’t integrate into what, the society that you imagine exists? It’s not self-flagellation to point out that immigrants aren’t responsible for social policies engineered by the natives before immigrants were even a thing in Ireland, and I don’t see anyone demanding reparations. I’m only suggesting we don’t have to be cnuts about it either is all, as that doesn’t help or support anyone or foster good relations between different groups in Irish society.

By your own standards, I’m guessing you’re also not British or American so you don’t have to portray yourself as though you’re a victim of their failed social policies either.

It doesn’t make any sense to hold all policies to the same standard, no more than it’s realistic to expect that immigration policies should be determined by your standards, and the standards you list above are albeit granted a shortlist of your own standards.

I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt at least that you’re trying to give a broader context to the criteria for determining social policies, but you don’t appear to include recognition of our international human rights obligations, or our aspirations for future generations of Irish society.

I think the first obstacle you’ll face is that all opportunities must be equal before all responsibility can be shared equally, before all benefits can be shared equally. You’ll have no end of people complaining that policies are unfair to them or are discriminatory, etc - Dog in a manger type politics.

Your personal anecdote means the sweet sum of fcukall when determining social policies, you must surely be aware of that? It also means nothing in a discussion about social policies which affect approx 7m people (and growing).

You’re also no doubt aware of the fact that it’s the same narrative-pushing “pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, you should try it some time” types who are elected to represent the national interest, and not just the interests of the natives, are the same natives who are pretty much dumping on you from a height, never mind the fact they don’t care about your vision for society.

You’re exactly where they want you, unable to see past your own brother being a drain on society while the respectable native politicians are engineering policies which are successful for themselves, absolute failures in terms of the nation’s interests.