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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,045 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    They will need to define more closely what they are tracking, there has been a lot of reports out recently but headlining as not as effective against moderate disease, what really matters is severe disease (i.e. what gets people hospitalized) and the data there continues to be good as seen by the case numbers vs. those in hospital and ICU.

    I'm almost at the stage of disregarding a study if it doesn't specify the numbers who get severely ill (the other one being for how long the viral load lasts, not just what it's peak values are).



  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭godzilla1989


    Vaccine's and better hospital treatment's have the CFR well under 0.5% now I believe

    There will be death but hopefully not massive



  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭godzilla1989


    Moving the goal posts there astro

    Symptomatic covid prevention was how the vaccine's were measured eg 95% and what they study looked at, severe disease is much harder to track as you need a massive pool of data that might not even be accurate ( in hospital with covid or from covid )

    Our own data shows severe illness in CHR rates

    CHR ( which is severe illness imo as your in hospital with Covid, but you can argue in hospital with covid or from covid ) is 9% for over 65's at present who are vaccinated, it was over 20% pre vaccines

    Now something like 20% of daily cases are fully vaccinated and less than 0.5% are re-infections ( 40 times less )



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    P

    • This is incorrect. Like, just not correct.
    • "Vaccine was 100% effective in preventing severe disease as defined by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and 95.3% effective in preventing severe disease as defined by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration"

    Pfizer and BioNTech Confirm High Efficacy and No Serious Safety Concerns Through Up to Six Months Following Second Dose in Updated Topline Analysis of Landmark COVID-19 Vaccine Study | Pfizer



  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭godzilla1989


    That data is months old

    If it was 100% effective in preventing severe illness no one would ever end up in hospital with Covid

    Half of the 320 in our hospitals are fully vaccinated, so it's not 100%, not even close

    9% of covid cases over the age of 65 who are fully vaccinated end up in hospital, that's a fact

    Data is on the HSE site.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,064 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    I'm not dismissing the figures, but can you link to where the HSE provides that info. I didn't think they were releasing that kind of detail.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,503 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    I work in a university building full of labs. Some chem. Some bio. Etc. Some materials studied may be hazardous. We get vaxxed for all sorts of things to reduce potential health affects. Some require boosters. We also ensure we are covered for travel to various countries about the world.

    Adding COVID vaccination is just one more. When a booster is recommended by the university, I will be first in line. This is not politics for us. Just ensuring that we are safe, as well as all those living in our community and those we encounter in our travels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Now it's you who's moving the goalposts.

    You said "Symptomatic covid prevention was how the vaccine's were measured" - that was not correct.



  • Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭ohnohedidnt


    I bet this is the first time you took a first if its kind vaccine technology which was also rushed through trials at record smashing speed and administered under emergency authorizarion and manufactured by a company with history of dangerous manipulation of trial data (assuming Pfizer)

    The assumption seems to be that people are against this vaccine because they're anti-vaccine. That is not the case at all. I'm skeptical about the safety and benefits of this one vaccine. If I was offered anything other than mRNA, I'd probably take it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Dr. Greenthumb


    There's a lot of things you can do to reduce your risk of getting a severe dose of covid. Boosters are the easy way out but why is there no push for people to improve their lifestyle? Why aren't they publishing the info on comorbidities like the amount of obese people, people with hypertension, chronic smokers etc. that are dying from this so we can make our populations more resilient to any disease going forward.

    Of course healthy people have died from Covid but it seems from the reading I have done that they are the exception.

    Boosters were always coming and to me it's alarming how many people are not willing to make adjustments to their lifestyle to protect themselves and are instead continuing to live an unhealthy lifestyle while relying on shots. The majority of the population seem to go along with whatever the advice of the government is so why aren't the government pushing healthier life choices? They would probably get a great reaction out of it rather than the prolonged restrictions which lead to a more sedentary lifestyle and therefore make people more prone to a bad dose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,214 ✭✭✭airy fairy


    The FDA have approved it in full, only a matter of time when it's done here. Will you still refuse the mRNA then when it's fully approved here, or are you still going to say it's not safe?



  • Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭ohnohedidnt


    The approval was under pressure from the Biden admistration. Nothing about how these vaccines got approved sits well with me.

    Even when it's approved here I won't trust it because there's just so much political pressure. I don't trust that negative data would be correctly reported because politically it would be a nightmare, and the vaccine would still be for the greater good. Like with the masks, we were lied to, that they actually cause covid to spread more and not to buy them, then when the greater good was satisfied (hospitals stocked), masks became mandatory because that was the greater good then. Data about deaths (age, weight, co-morbidities) was concealed because NPHET didn't want to give us all the facts in case we got "the wrong idea", with the facts.

    I'm not saying it's not safe at all, people who want it should absolutely get it. I might even get it myself in a year in the unlikely event I still haven't had covid. If I was old or fat I'd take it today.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well you'll be glad to know that the Pfizer vaccine is now FDA approved. You can now take it without the above concerns or choose to move the goalposts, up to you!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    why is there no push for people to improve their lifestyle?

    Many answers to that off the top of my head.

    • There is already. Almost everyone knows that lifestyle choices like e.g. obesity and smoking greatly increase the chances of having a severe infection because it's often highlighted. We already have a sugar tax, restrictions on when you can buy alcohol, minimum pricing on alcohol, restrictions on alcohol/cigarette advertising, warnings on cigarette packs, not displaying cigarettes in shops, being one of the first countries to ban smoking in public places etc. We actually do quite well in that regard in my opinion.
    • Because it's a secondary response rather than a direct response. We know that having the overwhelming majority of adults being vaccinated can and has lead to restrictions being lifted. It's doubtful if the same would be the case if we simply advertised improving lifestyles more than we currently do.
    • There are many more people with bad lifestyle choices than there are people selfishly refusing a vaccine.
    • Severe infections happen to healthy people.
    • The overwhelming majority of people who are obese, chronic smokers etc. are fully aware that it's bad for their health, with or without Covid. Advertising that fact isn't going to tell them anything they don't already know, it will only reduce the number of people making those bad lifestyle choices in future generations (which is already the case).

    And that's not including things like comparing transmission rates of healthy unvaccinated people to unhealthy vaccinated people etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,214 ✭✭✭airy fairy


    See above reply to my post.

    He thinks it's political, Biden in US with FDA, Irish government here. No talking to some. Would always find some excuse. Leave him at it.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ah I didn't realise he was a conspiracy theorist, thank for pointing it out. 😃



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,214 ✭✭✭airy fairy


    I hope you'll never grow old, or 'fat'.(not a nice term for those who are obese due to medications) And let's hope that you won't allow new treatments to be wasted on you if in ICU for any reason.



  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Dr. Greenthumb


    Then maybe the derision that non vaccinated people face should be directed at the unhealthy that have resulted in the requirement for a vaccine to be rolled out to everybody rather than just the vulnerable like the flu shot. Not that I would condone that as I believe everyone should be free to make their own choices when it comes to their body but I would find it hard listening to someone that is obese giving out about people not getting vaccinated when in all other areas of their life they don't care about their health.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    the unhealthy that have resulted in the requirement for a vaccine to be rolled out to everybody rather than just the vulnerable

    1) What percentage of non-vulnerable people need to be considered healthy for the ICU not to become overwhelmed if non-vulnerable people were not vaccinated? How did you determine this percentage?

    2) What percentage of non-vulnerable people are currently considered healthy? How did you determine this percentage?

    3) Do you believe that a government drive to encourage a healthy lifestyle can increase the percentage of 2) to the percentage of 1)? How long do you believe that would take? How did you determine this number?

    4) How do you plan on circumventing an overwhelmed ICU in the meantime?



  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Dr. Greenthumb


    I didn't state any percentages or numbers but it's widely accepted the healthier you are the less likely you going to get a severe case. Also I don't believe the numbers are reported in a transparent way stating how many patients in ICU have comorbidities. If there was more transparency on those numbers then a rough estimate of the above percentages could be made and a risk analysis conducted based on that.

    Based on how the population has gone along with everything the government has said I do believe that if they had promoted a healthy lifestyle it would have been picked up by people. I'm not saying all people but there was an opportunity lost here and not just for the covid response but for the betterment of Irish society as a whole. We're over 18 months with Covid on the scene, a lot of people could have improved their health considerably in that time which would then have had a positive effect on the Covid numbers and in general hospital admissions.

    Do you think that the solution here long term is boosters for the foreseeable future? I don't. I can see the first booster being taken up in good numbers but as time passes less and less will bother, just like the flu jab.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But you have stated that the "unhealthy have resulted in the requirement for a vaccine to be rolled out to everybody rather than just the vulnerable". You cannot make that assertion if you don't know the answers to the questions that I asked. The existence of unhealthy people, just like the existence of selfish people not being vaccinated, may mean Covid is around for longer, if not indefinitely, but you cannot conclude that their existence alone is necessitating the need for healthy people to be vaccinated.

    Do you think that the solution here long term is boosters for the foreseeable future? I don't. I can see the first booster being taken up in good numbers but as time passes less and less will bother, just like the flu jab.

    If by foreseeable future you mean over the next few years, then yes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Dr. Greenthumb


    I don't think anyone can answers the questions you have asked as the information is not being shared by the authorities as I pointed out but it is widely accepted that the majority of people dying from Covid have comorbidities or are at an advanced age. Of course there are the exceptions of perfectly healthy people dying of Covid but if people are going to rely on these exceptions as a reason to pressure people into getting vaccines then they should also consider the exceptions when there is an adverse reaction or a death due to a Covid vaccine.

    You referenced non vaccinated people as selfish, if that's the case I would label obese people and smokers as selfish too and not just over Covid. Their life choices costs the taxpayers a considerable amount money each year regardless if Covid is around or not. They have cost the public more money than unvaccinated will. I actually don't understand this approach anymore, the vaccine is more of a prophylactic now. Doesn't prevent you getting it or spreading it, it protects the taker from a severe reaction that's all. Something that can be achieved just as well by being a healthy person.

    I think the reason they don't share it is due to what is widely reported that a significant percentage of those dying have multiple comorbidities. Although this isn't widely reported on within the media for some reason. Healthier people would then be able to make up their own mind whether to get the vaccine and the uptake wouldn't be where it is.

    I think the first booster will not be as widely taken as the initial vaccine and after that it will drop off a cliff.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't think anyone can answers the questions you have asked as the information is not being shared by the authorities as I pointed out but it is widely accepted that the majority of people dying from Covid have comorbidities or are at an advanced age. Of course there are the exceptions of perfectly healthy people dying of Covid but if people are going to rely on these exceptions as a reason to pressure people into getting vaccines then they should also consider the exceptions when there is an adverse reaction or a death due to a Covid vaccine.

    The majority of people who end up hospitalised or in ICU do not die.

    You referenced non vaccinated people as selfish, if that's the case I would label obese people and smokers as selfish too

    Well, smoking (and arguably sugar) is an addition. Most smokers want to quit, I wouldn't put them in the same category as those refusing vaccines.

    Doesn't prevent you getting it or spreading it

    What are you referring to exactly?

    Their life choices costs the taxpayers a considerable amount money each year regardless if Covid is around or not. They have cost the public more money than unvaccinated will.

    I mean that's true about lots of groups that you haven't mentioned too.

    I think the first booster will not be as widely taken as the initial vaccine and after that it will drop off a cliff.

    If many employers in Ireland do what has been introduced by some American US companies and give vaccinated people more paid sick leave and reduce the cost of their healthcare plan then even the selfish will start taking whatever vaccine they can get.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,098 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    My vaccination centre kept everyone 2 metres apart from the front door to the exit. I was closer to people in the supermarket on the way home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Username2017


    How bout this one




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,045 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Any of your own opinion, or are you reduced to meme dumping?

    Anyway, the GOP supporting Americans would be rushing from pharmacy getting jabbed if it meant a 10% saving on hot dogs.

    trump got jabbed, did you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Dr. Greenthumb


    Apologies, I don't know how to multiple quote so I'll just respond paragraph per point.

    I never said that the majority of people in ICU die although the majority that end up either dying or in ICU have under lying health problems.

    Smoking may be an addiction but if you really want to give up you can, I did and people do every day. Same with diet, people make the choice to lead healthier lives and get through the initial sugar withdrawals. It's just an unfortunate fact that most people don't have the real desire or will power to do so however I don't see that as an excuse. Everyone should be responsible for their decisions whether it's smoking or taking a vaccine.

    The vaccine doesn't prevent catching or spreading Covid, it reduces the severity of the symptoms but that's not across the board either.

    I understand your point but we're speaking about Covid and health. This is bigger than a health emergency due to the economic damage the concerns of the effects it will have on peoples mental health.

    I have never been given sick days and I've never had a healthcare plan provided by an employer in Ireland either so I'm not sure how relevant that is for the majority of people working in Ireland. Maybe for the public sector and the likes of google?

    Have you considered that the people that haven't been vaccinated are maybe waiting for the dust to settle before getting jabbed? I've read articles where they have said if you have previously contracted covid one shot maybe enough, if your immunocompromised then it could be 3 shots, in the last week or two it's come out that you lose the antibodies from the vaccine after 8 months or 3 months if your immunocompromised. People have said on this thread if they knew it was going to be a like a flu shot with boosters they wouldn't have taken the vaccine. AstraZeneca isn't accepted in certain places like New York. The doctors are saying you can mix shots while the US is saying it won't accept people with different shots. So it's not as clear cut as some would have you believe.

    I'm all for the science but there is so much that is unknown about the virus and the efficacy of the vaccine that I can understand why some people are hesitant to get the vaccine. I'm actually surprised so many got it with so many unknowns but that's down mostly to the allure of the pub in my opinion.

    Calling people selfish for not taking a vaccine for a virus that's surrounded with so many unknowns is unhelpful I believe and all it does is create division rather than promote discussion and education on the topic as it causes both sides to dig in and get entrenched but that's modern discourse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Username2017


    The GOP are mostly hard working , not sucking off the government so this wouldn’t entice them! I don’t care who got jabbed and who didn’t , it’s non of my business. I take care of my own body , been working around people 6 days a week for 16 months without catching a cold , I think I got this. Since me getting vaccinated or not makes zero difference to anyone around me then what’s the point. 99.8%.



  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭Unicorn Milk Latte


    Regarding the WHO guidance, a compromise seems to be the best solution IMHO:

    Booster shots only for the most vulnerable for now - immunocompromised, health care workers etc.


    This means, a relatively small amount of vaccine is used for booster shots, - statistically insignificant for focussing on vaccination in other countries with low vaccination rates.

    It's a global pandemic, so looking at the bigger picture seems sensible.


    It also means waiting with booster shots for the general public until we have better data that show if they are actually necessary, and what exactly the right time span from 2nd vaccination to booster should be. Also, more time to customise boosters for new emerging variants (which is comparatively simple, once there is a working vaccine - not like vaccine development has to start from scratch).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Username2017




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Boosters for vaccines are common to gain a level of sustained immunity

    MMR at 12 months and Junior infants

    6 in 1 at 2, 4 and 6 months

    Men B at 2 4 and 12 months

    PCV at 2 6 and 13 months

    Men C at 6 and 13 months

    Tetanus generally needs a booster after 10 years

    Hep A is 2doses 6 months apart however most who travel don’t go back for the second and need booster if not doubled within the year



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Smoking may be an addiction but if you really want to give up you can, I did and people do every day.

    That's a very big generalisation. Just because you managed it doesn't mean it's just as difficult for every smoker to quit. Addictions and the brain are complicated things.

    Anyway, the point is that comparing addictions to people who are anti-vaxx (well, pro-Covid is my preferred term) is a bit silly. Willpower has nothing to do with taking a vaccine.

    The vaccine doesn't prevent catching or spreading Covid, it reduces the severity of the symptoms but that's not across the board either.

    Well, that's blatantly not true.

    Have you considered that the people that haven't been vaccinated are maybe waiting for the dust to settle before getting jabbed?

    Not at all. I've never met anyone who had said "sure I'll take it next year when I've noticed that everyone hasn't turned into zombies". The majority are not taking it due to ignorance or selfishness from what I've seen and read.

    I'm all for the science but there is so much that is unknown about the virus and the efficacy of the vaccine that I can understand why some people are hesitant to get the vaccine.

    Nothing unknown about the vaccine at all. Based on what it is, it doesn't make sense for there to be any side effects from an mRNA vaccine after 6-8 weeks. Everything is known about that vaccine type, and the data shows that it's much more likely you will get ill or worse without a vaccine than with one.

    Calling people selfish for not taking a vaccine for a virus that's surrounded with so many unknowns is unhelpful I believe and all it does is create division rather than promote discussion and education on the topic as it causes both sides to dig in and get entrenched but that's modern discourse.

    Those people who are not getting vaccines because they are getting their information about them from Facebook etc. rather than credible sources are not going to suddenly do a 180 if we place nice. The only recourse for such people is incentives to take it or deterrents to not take it.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    "Even when it's approved here"?

    It is approved here.

    But look, this post screams conspiracy theorist. There will be no convincing you, ever. You are not well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,045 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    So you don't like trump anymore? He got jabbed and told his supporters to get jabbed, he wasn't a little 'fraidy cat like some, would you not follow him in this behavior?



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Username2017


    You don’t really know much about trump supporters do you ? How does a 75 yr old obese man have anything to do with what I put in my body?




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    We still need to identify where the immediate need is for boosters first. The protocols here are for established general health programmes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,045 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    So you disagree with him? I'm trying to see if you're being hypocritical by criticizing Biden when both the development and approval for vaccines came under trump and he also came out recently and told his supporters to go and get vaccinated due to the runaway pandemic if majority GOP voting areas of America.

    I mean, it's easy to post memes criticizing political leaders, but you're shying away from following the advice of the opponents as well, leaving you out on your own among the tinfoil hat wearers and conspiracy theorists, I mean, if that's what you are, fine, but it would be interesting to know the reason behind the meme posting that seem aligned with a trump follower.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Well seen as those most at risk from dying were jabbed first and those who were jabbed first were given Pfizer, then it sounds a good idea giving a booster to those first. Those most at risk will be 7 months in from receiving the second dose now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    There are certain sectors they will definitely do, care homes and some front line HCWs. After that I don't think we'll see it as a widespread approach this winter but they don't seem to have a clear plan on it just yet. Boosters for everyone over 7 months without exception strikes me as quite a waste of vaccines.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,045 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    We have 700,000 Pfizer vaccines from Romania, there is clearly a plan to use them (I'm still not convinced boosters are needed in a high vaccinated % society, but they are clearly planning for them).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I don't doubt it but the talk to date has only got as far as at risk groups. I also wonder about the need for boosters right now, especially population-wide. It would be preferable to have such stocks in unvaccinated arms in places who really need them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Username2017


    No I don’t disagree with him encouraging people to get vaccinated. Biden is TELLING people to get vaccinated and shaming anyone who isn’t. I don’t agree with that. I think if you want to vaccinated then great. IF it’s saving you from getting seriously ill and dying then wonderful. Personally I believe if I get covid I will be absolutely fine as I have been for the last 2 years. I might have felt different if I was offered a vaccine in March 2020 when I thought we would all be dropping like flies.

    Now that Im more educated about covid, I know that the chances of me dying are less than 1% I don’t feel the need for a vaccine right now. Ive worked closely with approx 40 clients a week since this “pandemic” began while a “highly contagious virus “ is rampant so I’m pretty sure I’ve had it and my immune system did it’s job.

    I also live in the u.s and do not know a single person who has died from covid despite what the media will tell you. I meet doctors and nurses every day of the week , ask questions and make my own decisions based on that.

    The memes make me laugh. I’m not anti Biden. I feel bad for him and his son. I feel Biden should be enjoying retirement and not being publicly humiliated every time he tried to form a sentence and I hope his son is getting the help he needs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,045 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I don't see the Pfizer (or Moderna) supply being exported anytime soon, they will be in Ireland along with the usual deliveries and will get used in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,045 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Honestly, this is the problem the USA faces, people just ignoring the case counts and deaths and pretending it isn't happening and attack the people who are trying to help the situation. It's farcical and the people like yourself sticking their head in the sand are a huge part of the problem over there. All the data, deaths, cases and experts all saying the same thing, even their anti-everything ex-leader telling them to get vaccinated yet being ignored because of feelings and anecdotal evidence from those around you.

    But hey, at least we know the meme's are coming from a position of complete ignorance now.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Username2017


    If you believe the death rate for a second then i am not the ignorant one here. Last April my family member came home and told me that they were being told to write covid 19 on the death certificates of a couple who had been thrown through the windscreen of their car and died on the way to hospital. That was the first I heard of anything. The hospitals were empty, nurses being laid off due to lack of patients , while the media was telling us at the same hospital, bodies were piling up in the parking lot?!

    I was living in the middle of it while you were home in watching CNN.

    Maybe you should move to Australia where the government will keep you nice and safe from the 4 cases of covid and the army will beat you back into your house if you dare to go out and get some fresh air and vitamin d.

    Since you have assumed so much about me being a conspiracy theorist, anti vax, ignorant trump supporter, I’d assume you are unemployed, depending on the government to feed you so you can watch the news all day and judge people on forums? I’d be interested to know what your BMI is also since you asked what I do with my body? I hope ,being so in fear of covid that you are not over weight like 75% of people in hospital?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Imagine having lost a family member to Covid or been seriously ill yourself.

    Then you come on boards.ie and some prick is telling you it's a hoax.

    I don't know if that's a wind up or you actually believe it, either way you have a serious mental illness. You are legitimately sick and you need help. There's no version of events in which you're an OK human being.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Are you saying a Doctor/Coroner was told to falsify a cause of death? By who?

    Were there reports of bodies piling up outside hospitals? My wife is an A&E Dr, they cleared out the hospitals in anticipation of the onslaught of cases that were expected, but the lockdown last year averted that catastrophe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Username2017


    When did I say this was a hoax?? Maybe go back and re read what I wrote and come back to me when you can have an intelligent conversation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Dr. Greenthumb


    It has been widely reported that vaccinated people can still contract and pass on the virus. Nothing untrue about that. Also, if they can't even settle on the dose amount, if boosters are require, lasting efficacy of the vaccines I don't think you can say they know everything about the vaccines effectiveness and future use.



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