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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Username2017


    Yes that’s what I’m saying, In the u.s , specifically a privately owned for profit hoapital. Mostly because the hospitals being mostly empty were loosing millions with surgeries being cancelled and the sick afraid to go to a hospital. Each covid related death is a big pay out for that hospital. Its common knowledge by now over in the u.s. that the numbers have been exaggerated in order to fund the hospitals and pay staff. Of course there were genuine covid related deaths just not the numbers they are reporting.

    NurseErin was a nurse in nyc last year when covid was at it’s peak , watch “undercover epicenter nurse”if you don’t believe me.

    I would never step foot in a hospital in the u.s and think we are blessed with health care in Ireland.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I’m going to call absolute BS on your post, falsifying a death cert would have serious implications for the Dr/Hospital, the family would be up in arms, any litigation associated with the cause of death would have been affected etc. Both my wife and I worked in hospitals in the US, I can assure you that what you are alleging never happened, if they died due to massive trauma in a vehicular accident, that is what was on the death certificate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,934 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I'm pretty much in the least risk group for everything with COVID, but thanks for asking :)

    Also good to know there's not much critical thought going on behind the future meme dumps.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Username2017


    Is this the first you’ve heard of this “bs” ? Genuinely curious. I don’t live in Ireland anymore but I’m back visiting so I’m interested in people’s opinions/thoughts and also what information is given over here.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If you are asking is this the first time I have heard of a Dr/Hospital policy of falsifying causes of death for profit, yes it is. Are you saying Hospitals are telling staff to record deaths due to car crashes, gunshot wounds, work place accidents etc as deaths due to Covid, so the hospital can earn more money to pay wages?

    Have you any comprehension of how that would play out for the families, or litigation relating to both the actual cause, and indeed the Hospital?



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Username2017


    Oh WOW!! So i I sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist right now ?! Ok that explains a lot , thanks!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Stating that a Doctor was instructed to falsely state cause of death as Covid, for a couple who died in a car crash, so the Hospital will profit is a bit out there, don’t you think? Surely you must have questioned your relative about the veracity of the claim.

    Just so you know, in the US, falsifying medical records is a Federal offence. As you live there, you know what that means.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,066 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Mod - thread has been getting off topic, can we get back to discussing boosters please?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,934 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I think what people are saying is that, sure, you can get death certs entered wrongly, it happens, however, very rarely.

    It is something that can be litigated for and have people up on malpractice charges, it's a pretty stupid way for a doctor/consultant to lose their license if proven (and a car crash victim case would be easily proved), the cost of getting caught is way higher than any small benefit.

    Unless you're into COVID being a global hoax, but there's a different forum for that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Username2017


    100% I thought that’s weird , aren’t their poor family going to be confused when they read that. Why would they do that ?!

    Im only giving that as an example of the first time I heard of it. It’s been 16 months since then , I know of so many cases that’s it old news. But I get why that sounds insane if that’s the first you’ve heard of it. I’m honestly shocked how filtered everything is !



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We hear a lot of stupid claims, but most people here, we hope, look at the source and are not stupid, Gemma O’Doherty followers being the exception.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Username2017


    No I don’t think covid is a hoax. But who cares about what I think.




  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Username2017


    Oh I saw her videos last year , if I’m being put in the same category as her I need to delete my account .



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    So how will booster shots work? Would it go on an age based rollout again?


    I can't help but think of all those who skipped the queue at the beginning of the year. If there was a 30 year old teacher who skipped the vaccine queue and got the shot early, would they have to wait until their age group opens up now? Which leaves them with a bigger gap and not protected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,836 ✭✭✭brickster69


    It looks as like US is considering reducing boosters from 8 months to 5 after Biden met with the Israeli PM today.


    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Off the top of my head, 44% of the severe cases in Israel were in immunocompromised people (fully vaccinated). This was flagged last year with trials excluding them (or including them and skewing the efficiency - SA and AZ). If you give a 100% effective vaccine to an immunocompromised person, they may not generate the same immune response as a healthy person. It was common knowledge months ago that after 2 jabs a immunocompromised person can show no or negligible antibody response.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "Vaccines don't prevent spreading of Covid" is not the same thing as "vaccinated people can still pass on the virus". Anyway, it's clearly a misunderstanding on my part as to what you meant.

    Do you have any comments on the rest of my post?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,836 ✭✭✭brickster69


    That may be the case. However with Israel boosting everyone over 50 now, they obviously have concerns from it's findings on severe illness and are playing it safe. That was based on all over 65's


    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Vaccinated people are less likely to catch and pass on the virus. a vaccinated person is less a danger to society than an unvaccinated one. that is not in doubt.

    A booster may reduce the transmission of the virus further so that it cannot get going again. Ireland should carefully observe what is happening in Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    We are not going to do blanket boosters except maybe for very limited groups and we are more likely settle for a more managed approach as required.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    At this point the situation is not clear. The older people and health care workers that were a priority last February should probably receive boosters. How far you go after that awaits further data.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    More vaccines available to the rest of the world over rich countries using probably unnecessary boosters is preferable.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Does anyone know where I can find the safety/trial data for the third (or more) shots?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,442 ✭✭✭NSAman


    i have been vaccinated .. I live in the States and last year when our local hospitals had zero icu capacity (according to the news) I ended up in casualty. There was no one in the place. The hospital was empty. Staff were sent home, speaking to the doctors treating me, they were mystified as to where these reports were coming from. Many people do not be;Eve anything from any American news source as a result. I can concur with usernames analysis of news reports here. The trust has gone completely with general public.

    now in relation to boosters and vaccination in general, the politicisation of COVID has deterred many people. It’s stupid. With a lack of trust in the news, with politicians fighting over who did what, with many family members actually having adverse effects to vaccines, the trust in the process is not there.

    to hear that a vaccine needs annual boosters leaves non-Vaxers even more steadfast in their beliefs.

    even me, a firm believer in vaccinations is questioning the current situation.

    as for usernames report of COVID being used as the death cause, it was told to me anecdotally by a police friend that the numbers do not represent reality, money for local health department was the driving force for using Covid funds 15000 per person apparently. Yes I take it with a pinch of salt but the tale remains….



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,836 ✭✭✭brickster69


    You can add how long will boosters last for also. Talk is 5 months after 2nd dose for a booster now. You could possibly end up with a situation you have the first jab 1st January, second 1st Febuary, 3rd shot 1st of June and 4th shot 1st of October.

    Israel have admitted themselves they are a guinea pig for world re. boosters.

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Big Gerry


    Endless "boosters" for covid is the next scam.

    It could be up to 8 per year.





  • Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭ohnohedidnt


    They're not doing any trials, because it's so similar to the first two doses. Why bother, they have indemnity?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,836 ✭✭✭brickster69


    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Username2017


    Thanks for articulating my views better than I can! I hope you don’t get attacked for also conveying what you’ve seen and heard.

    The data is there , the hospital receives $13,000 for every covid death and $40,000 if a ventilator was used for more than 4 days. Fact.

    If a patient tests positive or show any signs of covid (difficultly breathing , cough ect) and dies, then covid is allowed to be written on the death certificate. That is not conspiracy, that is fact the info is there anybody can read it but it seems like people don’t want to know.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,836 ✭✭✭brickster69


    All the data will be coming out soon. Even Topol is seeing the light, people have been shot down here for trying to show the light weeks ago to the blind.



    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,934 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    As part of the CARES act, hospitals can get paid more if a death is recorded as COVID. Worth remembering that this is a USA thing, not Ireland/UK (UK having it's own under-reporting scandal).

    There's numerous fact checks, but here's one from fox11news (just because Fox seems to be rated more highly by those who believe in some of these conspiracies):

    Fact check: How are COVID-19 deaths counted, do hospitals get money for COVID-19 deaths? | WLUK (fox11online.com)

    This is the important bit, if a hospitals got (easily) caught then they'd lose out financially:

    “If somebody knowingly alters the medical record, which would then create the bill I think is being alleged here... That would be caught through audit. And if that occurred, you could be prosecuted -- there’s huge penalties,"

    I think to bang on any further about this should be in it's own thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Yes, covid deaths were over reported in the US. This is a fact. For example

    And


    also families can receive money to cover funeral expenses if a death is recorded as covid so that may be a factor too. I guess we won't really know the true death toll until the data has been cleaned up a bit in in the coming years, but I suppose mistakes are to be expected in the chaos of a pandemic. Not sure if there is malice or intentional fraud behind it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Don't worry, they have "hope", who needs things like data and evidence in that case?

    That said, there's no data just yet that proves that a third shot of the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines would increase protection against infection. But Walensky and her colleagues have "hope" that a third dose would decrease transmission, and thus infections as well.

    "We do know that the higher levels of protection, certainly in the alpha variant (first identified in the U.K.), resulted in less transmission," she explained. "We are hopeful that the booster will not only protect you, give you a higher level of protection, not just against the delta vary but against a broad range of variants. It might also decrease the level of virus that you have and make it less transmissible."




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,836 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Words like hopeful and might do not sound very reassuring

    Sounds like the FDA full approval letter for Pfizer this week.

    " the vaccine may prove effective "

    FFS is it effective or not, and if you can't say for sure it is, why are you giving it full approval ?

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,836 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Even Dr. John the other night nearly crossed the line on his neurality


    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭HerrKapitan


    Why are NPHET being dismantled at a similar time as when boosters come in. Surely they should be there to advise if and when boosters are needed or not. Unless there is already a long term plan for boosting that the HSE will overlook.

    The end of NPHET is the end of temporary measures and the beginning of more established measures.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,836 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Looks like the Israel PM woke up Biden after a couple of hours meeting


    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Big Gerry




  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭Unicorn Milk Latte


    Entirely different situation here in Ireland. If you've ever been to a hospital here, even in normal times, they are busy beyond description, frequently overcrowded. If you go to casualty on a Saturday, be prepared to wait for 7-9 hours before anyone even looks at you. Pizza deliveries here are, famously, significantly faster than ambulances in emergencies.


    Now regarding trust in main stream media. A good strategy to get meaningful information (IMHO) is to look at two types of sources: information that comes directly from relevant scientists (virologists, epidemiologists), and conspiracy websites. By doing that, you get unfiltered, clear scientific information, and also get familiar with the most popular disinformation, and who relevant personalities are, right from the source.


    Credit where credit is due: the idiotic politicisation of Covid, and science in general, primarily originated with the GOP in the US, followed shortly afterwards by far right groups here in Europe. In the US, idiots beat each other up over mask mandates in schools, here in Europe, antivax idiots demand that health care workers be executed. Have I mentioned that the idiotic politicisation of Covid is idiotic? Don't think I have. It's idiotic.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,836 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Not far fetched really. If you were in the market making a vaccine that could earn 100's of billions of dollars in revenue for your business, the last thing you would want to see is some outfit selling a similar product at 90% of your price.

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Username2017




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Wolf359f




  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Username2017


    Aaaaand we’re back to counting covid only needing to be mentioned for it to count as a covid death..

    “This new figure was drawn from data supplied to the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and takes into account death certificates where COVID is mentioned”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    That was a deliberate cover up to hide the extent of deaths caused by the policy of returning covid patients to nursing homes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,442 ✭✭✭NSAman


    The thing is UML, they are ALL at it. GOP the DEMs they are different cheeks of the same arse!

    the reports of people beating each other up over masks are wildly exaggerated. Obviously they happen, where I live we have some of the highest vaccination rates in the country. No one cares if you wear a mask or not, it is not mandatory until this coming Monday again.the thing is .. we were told vaccination is the way out, now it’s not. Now boosters are the way out… seems as if they are not.. so masks are being brought in for ALL inside and outside… if science is being politicized… it is by those in leadership… does it work or does it not?

    we have some scientists saying masks help, others saying they don’t. It leaves the tradition belief systems in research and scientific facts in limbo for most. For me, I simply maintain distance, even in the office. We installed fresh air circulation at huge cost to protect us all. We still have hand sanitizer at all entrances and still maintain distance in the office. Common sense precautions have seen no one catch COVID.

    the vast majority of Americans are ordinary sensible people. Like Irish people they too value their lives, friends and families, reading some of the reports on news in Ireland (I keep,up to date) I didn’t recognise what they were saying.

    ceadaoine has similar experiences and I think she is on the west side of the country. I am mid-west.

    i, like many others, gather my news from numerous sources. I don’t believe any of them. I make my own mind up based on personal experiences and from talking to people. I am not saying that I am all-knowing, far from it, I can only report on what I have personal experience of.

    BUT… the American political system is broken … it cares not of the ordinary American. The trust of the people is lost. That leads to massive issues in public health. When you have different stories and information coming from the CDC on a daily basis, people loose faith. It’s sad but true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    So it was a cover up to hide deaths or only counting deaths that mentioned covid (the latter I do disagree with, unless it's a contributing factor, it shouldn't be attributed as a covid death)



  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭Unicorn Milk Latte


    we have some scientists saying masks help, others saying they don’t

    Please kindly link to one or two scientific studies that have measured mask efficacy, and found they don't work.


    It leaves the tradition belief systems in research and scientific facts in limbo for most.

    The idea that science is a belief system or an 'opinion' is the kind of nonsense that you hear from the conspiracy crowd. The whole point of science is that any findings can be measured, and reproduced at any time, by anyone.

    Conspiracy theories that contradict science do not invalidate science.


    we were told vaccination is the way out, now it’s not

    Again, this is different here in Ireland. We have had the exact thing you would expect, reducing restrictions and opening up step by step, as more people are vaccinated.

    It's still an ongoing effort. While over 90% of adults had at least one vaccination, and 86% of adults are fully vaccinated, when you look at the entire population, only 65% are fully vaccinated as of now. Uptake is still very good. New announcements of further lifting of restrictions in the last couple of days.


    That being said - a global pandemic is an evolving, ongoing situation. It's not surprising that there were no predictions that anticipated something like the Delta variant. Getting it under control on a global level will take time, and new difficulties can be expected - as frustrating as that is for everyone..


    BUT… the American political system is broken … it cares not of the ordinary American.

    I only have an outside view, from news coverage in Europe, but my impression is that you are 100% correct on this one. From a European perspective, the idea that the person with the highest number of votes does not necessarily win an election (electoral college vs popular vote), that there's no public health care, no unemployment benefit, no free college education, and that the US still has the death penalty, seems incredibly bizarre.



  • Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭ohnohedidnt


    1. medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.18.21257385v1.full-text
    2. swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/
    3. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29395560/
    4. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32590322/
    5. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15340662/
    6. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26579222/
    7. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31159777/
    8. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/
    9. medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.01.20049528v1
    10. medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047217v2
    11. nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372
    12. jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214
    13. cmaj.ca/content/188/8/567
    14. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5779801/
    15. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19216002/
    16. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/
    17. academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/11/1934/4068747
    18. jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bio/23/2/23_61/_pdf/-char/en
    19. link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01658736
    20. journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/0195-6701(91)90148-2/pdf90148-2/pdf)
    21. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2493952/pdf/annrcse01509-0009.pdf
    22. nap.edu/catalog/25776/rapid-expert-consultation-on-the-effectiveness-of-fabric-masks-for-the-covid-19-pandemic-april-8-2020
    23. nap.edu/read/25776/chapter/1#6
    24. wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
    25. academic.oup.com/annweh/article/54/7/789/202744
    26. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6599448/
    27. acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342
    28. link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00392-020-01704-y
    29. clinmedjournals.org/articles/jide/journal-of-infectious-diseases-and-epidemiology-jide-6-130.php?jid=jide
    30. sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1130147308702355




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