Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Eastern Europe has always tended to lag in waves compared to Western Europe. There's the week on week growth, I would suspect over the course of the next month the chart you linked may be inverted to some extent.

Over this last month or so, covid has got real for me.

When you watch it on the news, and hear of deaths, it's sad but basically numbers that go in one ear and out the other. Of course I took it all seriously and got the jabs asap.

About a month ago my brother caught it and was hospitalised. He was very ill for about a week, but thankfully he recovered but is now at home with oxygen. He struggles to climb the stairs and recovery will be slow.

And today i just heard of the death of a next door neighbour, who has a holiday home here. He was fully vaccinated. I'm in shock tonight and it just shows that even the vaccinated have to take some care if they are old and perhaps frailer than most.

Knowing Ireland had the strictest suppression measures but very high case numbers I wonder was it a real life example of the Peltzman effect?

Knowing that NPHET removed all personal responsibility from Irish citizens and ordered closures of businesses,outdoor amenities etc, did people subsequently end up living life and socialising in the home and in more confined unsuitable environments where the virus could spread more easily?

Again, why are we higher cases but higher vaccinated population?

I was reading that Ireland has very high level of cases per capita, but also one of the higher vaccinated rates in Europe. Did you not hear that? Maybe I picked it up wrong.

I think the fact that Ireland has not embraced and come on board with antigen testing may be playing a part in our higher case numbers.

In other countries people use antigen tests provided by their respective governments either at home, before school/colleges/work or in pharmacies. LF test will only provide positive result for the period of time someone in infectious. PCR positive window is far greater.

There is no way of knowing how many ppl in other countries are testing positive with a self administered LF test and just not bothering with a follow up PCR test. Why would you? Seems like a waste of time and resources? If you get a positive result, you follow public health advice regarding isolation etc.

Personal responsibility and not being treated as if the population is stupid may be where we are again the outlier of Europe. That and our proximity to the Uk.

Very true regards antigen testing. I can't understand the opposition to it. I was feeling a bit ropy, but nothing that would raise a flag but I did an antigen test. It came back positive. If I didn't have access to an antigen testing I probably wouldn't have known and as such could have spread it around more. As a result of the test I'll now be isolating.

How many potential cases could that save and by extension perhaps even hospitalisation and death?

It is the efficacy of antigen v PCR tests and people assuming they have a particular status. NPHET never liked that scenario and have always opposed them.

But here is the thing. If you start from the point of correct assumption then you mitigate that. We know PCR is better but what you do with antigen tests is catch more cases that otherwise wouldn't be caught as people won't routinely submit to pcr.

I don't see embracing antigen testing as having a downside or making things worse.

@Toodles_27 wrote

I sort of agree with you (I was posting similar a few weeks ago citing Germany and Denmark), but to counterbalance that the UK has relied (if that's the right word) heavily on antigen testing and it doesn't seem to have helped them that much.

Case in point: the Boardmasters super-spreader event.

I think what annoyed people most about the NPHET/antigen communications debacle was the sense of being lectured like children. I know that's been a criticism levelled at Tony since at least last autumn by some people, but not so much at the others. It's like the wheels came off and they started shooting from the hip like a bunch of Sinn Fein councillors.

Yeah, fair enough. I suppose we have competing versions of common sense: NPHET's version was "anti-gen tests won't stop mass gathering being superspreader events, so let's have neither antigen tests nor music festivals", and UK govt version is "return to normal whilst using all available tools to make it safer".

Do I care much about music festivals being superspreader events? In 2020: yes; right now: not really.

I don't like the premise that we're now calling it 'stupid' for vaccinated people to socialise in large groups.

I just attended a festival in the UK. 50,000 people. Pubs and restaurants fully open, the premier league with full stadiums every weekend and yet the world isn't falling apart. Really makes you wonder what the point of it is in Ireland.

Whether it's good or not depends on how or in what context it is being applied. As an additional screening measure in an environment where people will be anyway e.g. healthcare worker, meat processing plant, school or college it will help reduce the number of CoViD-19 positive people who would otherwise be there.

If it is used to facilitate something which people would not otherwise be doing it will add to the number of CoViD-19 positive people mixing, perhaps with a false sense of security, as it may be letting through as many people as it is catching.

It could be used in the former case as an indicator requiring targeted PCR screening and / or temporary containment measures.