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Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭techdiver


    Now that is ultra bizarre! They accuse you of being irresponsible for doing more than they are doing? The group think around this stuff is unbelievable!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    Ireland doesn't use widespread antigen testing because it's use and performance is seriously limited. These tests do not perform to any acceptable standard for the purposes people want them to be used. Vaccines, hand hygiene and masks are of more use. It is not worth setting up another new testing strategy from scratch costing another billion euro for very little gain.

    It's not NPHET taking a huff against it. There is no real evidence to support it.

    https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/07/11/why-all-the-secrecy-around-innova-lateral-flow-tests/



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    In the absence of anything more obvious, I think we have to look at the CTA with the UK as the most obvious cause of our high numbers.

    We always said that the reason zero covid couldn't work, was because both countries had to be on the same page. Which means that in essence we are a single epidemiological area and remain so even now.

    Or it could be down to travel in general; have Irish people been engaging in more travel than other countries?

    If that is the case, then we might actually see our case numbers start to improve as a result of schools coming back, and less people travelling in and out of the country.

    It's a noodle-scratcher alright though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭Toodles_27


    Absolutely - I was lost for words to be honest. Utterly bizarre stance.

    Also, when our other daughter tested positive 5 days later (again, caught by antigen at home 1st) and the contact tracer rang about her, she wanted to know if I knew where she could have picked it up….now, considering she was a close contact of 2 confirmed cases I would have assumed she would be ‘in the system’ - whatever that system is. Bewildering.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,752 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    It's hardly that bewildering, the contact tracing is never going to be 100% fool proof. For one thing, it relies on everyone being honest for it to function properly.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,906 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Can't figure it out at all to be honest.We have a high vaccination rate and yet it is still spreading quite a bit. I suspect the Government/NPHET can't really either.They have been doing a kind of "whack a mole" thing since last November - one week it's schools and playdates, 2 weeks later they are telling us too many people have gone back to workplaces, then it is young people going to several social events on one night while infected, now we are back to parents at the school gate being warned again.All of these at one point or another have been cited as the "reason" for cases "spreading"since last November.

    I have long lost interest in their many warnings at this stage.I take my own responsibility for what I can, and outside of that, I can't do much else.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,752 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I think while it's still spreading, the difference is they are now confident that the spike will not become an out of control spiral into disaster. We have a spike, but we're nearing the peak or have already reached it.

    I've zoned out as well to be honest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Agree. It's just something that needs to be factored into the overall assessment.

    If the CoViD-19 prevalence is around 2% in the general population then a one off antigen test might reduce the prevalence to around 1% by excluding the half of the cases it does detect.

    400 CoViD positive out of 40,000 is better than 800, especially if that 400 are more likely to have a lower viral load. However the impact of the undetected 400 still needs to be taken into consideration.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    We've 10 times more in hospital with Covid now than we did this time last year, although it's safe to say that Delta is more transmissible and movement/gatherings are now less restricted across Europe and within Ireland. I wonder what the numbers would currently look like without vaccines and I wonder how things will fair out, considering we already have nearly 90% of adults fully vaccinated.

    A few short months ago, I would have expected the numbers to be bottomed with such a high vaccination rate but it seems that as we go on, our expectations are subtly reigned in and adjusted. If we had a crystal ball in 2020 and could see things now, I wonder how we might have changed our approach in all of this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,962 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    We are past the point whereby the government are lagging what the public are doing anyway and this has been the case for months now. Most people are just doing their own thing and getting on with life. Pubs not open - grand we'll have people around to the house for a few drinks. It's been going on so long now that it beggars belief we are at the end of August with so many restrictions still in place. People have decided that with vaccination they are going back to normal, regardless of what NPHET/government think.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭greenheep


    I don't understand how Romania and Bulgaria aren't totally out of control with delta considering how far behind us they are with vacination



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭muddypuppy


    I don't know if this is the case for Denmark (but I think so), but Antigen testing really brings down the positivity rate elsewhere. The reason is that people seek PCR only when they feel bad, are a close contact, are referred by a GP etc... while you use Antigen testing to be able to go out if you're not vaccinated and just "to be sure", so there is a huge bias.

    As an example, yesterday Italy did 223.086 tests with a positivity rate of ~2.6%. This looks a lot better than Ireland, until you break it down by PCR and Antigen. Out of all the tests 81.254 were PCR tests with a positivity rate of 7.12%, and 141.832 were antigen tests with a positivity rate of 0.12%.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,906 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Their reporting may not be great.We may not be seeing a full picture



  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭greenheep


    True but if their hospitals were bursting they wouldn't be able to hide it so it can't be that much of a disaster as per Italy in March 2020



  • Registered Users Posts: 550 ✭✭✭pawdee


    Just got this text from our daughter's school........

    "Unfortunately we have been informed of a positive case of covid 19 in your childs classroom. The HSE has deemed your child IS NOT a close contact and therefore no action is required at this time. We would appreciate greatly if you would be extra vigilant if your child shows any symptoms of Covid 19 and not to send your child to school if in doubt. Thanking you for your cooperation."

    I'd have thought that sitting in the same room as someone with covid would qualify you as a close contact? I suppose the HSE knows best.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    All that would do is put people off from ever interacting with a contact tracer again. I’m finding the way this is being handled very poor. The vaccination programme has been excellent but beyond that the systems seem very patchy and illogical.

    If you take my niece for example, she returned to primary school this week and her parents had been expecting there to be simple measures like CO2 monitors in place.

    None of that is there yet and she’s been mentioning that ventilation is inadequate, they complained to the principal and we’re more or less told that she was suffering from school anxiety and they needed to cop on. There was widespread media coverage saying this would be in place. It isn’t. Why isn’t it? Who is responsible for why it isn’t? The school? The department? The principal didn’t seem to give a damn either way.

    It’s like the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing and instead of logic being applied, it’s patronising or blind rule following by officialdom.

    I also had bizarre stuff like being asked for my phone number and name while sitting outside, along a river front on a windy day. This wasn’t even a terrace, just a seat on the quays and I’m fully vaccinated.

    I was thinking afterwards, if I had been flagged by that place as a close contact, it couldn’t have possibly made any sense as I was 3+ meters from anyone and in an extremely well ventilated outdoor area. So I’d be isolating for no reason if it came up.

    Then contrast that to calling into a hospital to collect a relative: phone call which went like “are you vaccinated? Yup! Have you been in contact with anyone with covid recently: nope. Have you any covid symptoms? Nope! Grand so, see you at 3pm then at ward such and such.”

    I'm hearing some people saying they’ve been asked for information at Irish airports, and others saying they walked through without anyone checking anything. That’s not the case going into France or Spain for example, documents are being checked consistently.

    It’s all very illogical and inconsistent from what I can see of it and the antigen testing position is highly out of step with the rest of Europe and North America.

    Why do a bunch of medics in what is a very small country think they know better than colleagues across the entire EU Abbas much of the planet? And yet, we accuse the British of island mentality exceptionalism anytime we see it…

    You can have a bunch of very draconian rules on paper, but having a system that is logical, smooth and most of all, consistent would be far more useful!



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    @pawdee wrote:

    I'd have thought that sitting in the same room as someone with covid would qualify you as a close contact? I suppose the HSE knows best.

    Nah, they have ways of assessing this, and based on last year it seemed to work pretty well. I know people were generally incredulous that two kids in a room all day wouldn't automatically be close contacts, but the data in general indicates that (somehow) kids don't spread it to one another as readily as the rest. I'm sure the mitigations in schools are also having some effect.

    There were a number of these every time schools returned last year. Kids who came straight off the plane from their holidays, into the classroom for a day, before being pulled back out again after a sibling/parent became covid positive. Whole class gets the standard "case of covid... not a close contact" email.



  • Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭Toodles_27


    The much talked about Co2 monitors that the DES have been proudly slapping each other on the back about still haven’t arrived in a good portion of schools. Certainly our primary and secondary school are still awaiting their arrival according to correspondence received from both schools last Friday.

    The secondary school purchased a very small amount of their own last year funded by the PTA.



  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭godzilla1989


    Or Ukraine or Poland or Czech

    Delta are all the cases there as well, but it's no issue.

    What's going on here is insane, myabe it will be a problem for them too eventually, but I personally think they have way more natural immunity which is way better as re-infections are very rare.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That’s just absolutely incompetent, although to be fair, it’s exactly what I was expecting.

    There were the entire, very long Irish summer holidays to get this done and ready.

    They should be asking the minister to step down over something like that tbh.

    We’ve also had 3 incidents so far this year of a younger kid (6) coming home having sprayed or rubbed hand sanitizer into her eyes. The way it is being handled just doesn’t really make me think the mitigating measures are being planned or executed very well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭godzilla1989


    What ways?

    Last year was Alpha, Delta is way more transmissible.

    It's airbourne and gets to you like passive smoking

    HSE still at March 2020 with wash your hands and keep 2 metres apart?



  • Registered Users Posts: 631 ✭✭✭Space Dog


    My friend is Romanian, she said you have to pay to get tested in Romania, even with symptoms. There are no free tests anymore, so people choose to not get tested -> low incidence rates.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,906 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    I believe not every classroom will have a monitor and depending on school size there may be monitors shared between rooms, so they will have to be wheeled around.

    I honest to God do not know why we bother.Who comes up with these absolutely ridiculous ideas?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,133 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Friend in Berlin was telling me her daughter age 7 has to wear a mask all day in school and parents have to do three antigen tests on the child every week .



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I am aware of several parents who were willing to actually put significant money into buying air filters for a school, but trying to find guidance on what to buy, or how to do it or get cooperative support is challenging to say the least.

    What’s coming across with many things is nobody wants to take responsibility. It’s likely Ireland’s sue! sue! sue! sue! sue! culture.

    I suspect that’s what behind the antigen testing issue too. If you provide a state funded test and the test isn’t 100% accurate and someone gets sick or dies, I guarantee you there’ll be a path beaten to Four Courts.

    Just to give you an example, I heard of a case here where a company removed an automatic defibrillator, because someone used it on someone who had a fatal heart attack (likely would have had a very high % chance of death anyway) and the company who installed the AED got dragged into a legal issue.

    So the response was to remove the facility entirely and never install anything like that again. That’s Ireland for you - if in doubt, sue!

    We then get paralysed in perfection or nothing type choices. Best efforts often don’t cut it legally here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,804 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    People keep assuming waves of covid start, peak and finish at the same time through the world. It doesn't. As you can clearly see, Ireland's peaks have been different.

    It seems to go Ireland peaks, then Bulgaria, then Romania and then Ukraine. I don't see why this will change all of a sudden.

    This can be seen when you look at Europe as a whole, the west seem to peak first followed later by eastern Europe.

    It's easy to see why the west seems interconnected, lots of travel between Ireland/UK/Spain/Portugal/France, I assume there's a similar pattern all over Europe with groups of countries all interconnected.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Wheeled around? They’re the size of a central heating thermostat or a mobile phone.

    A CO2 monitor is a very small little device and they’re not particularly expensive either.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,906 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Fair enough....which further highlights the question, why can't we have one in every room, and why they aren't already there...?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Inadequate budget, penny pinching on something cheap and essential while spending billions on things that are expensive and non essential? Slow tendering processes that seem to assume we’ve all the time in the world, legal issues, etc etc etc

    Basically a system that couldn’t organise a p%%% up in a brewery.

    They had nearly 3 months of school down time to get this done.



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