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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    The magic words 'public health' aren't a licence to do anything you want.

    Ethical limits come first. Then you are free to act.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    So.. as it stands, masks will be required up to November 6th or 9th can't remember. But more than likely we still will have to wear them as schools/shops/pubs/offices/hospitals/nursing homes and public transport can still dictate their own rules.

    fuckin hell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Don't think I'm ignorant to this. The key here is whether you believe these roadmaps are made in bad faith. If you believe that the roadmap in 2020 was made with no intention to follow through on it, then of course you're going to assume similarly that this latest roadmap is just a facade.

    If you take the more rational viewpoint (which requires fewer assumptions), then all roadmaps are being made in good faith and based on the best available advice, and therefore with an intention to follow through on them. The fact that the 2020 plan was accelerated rather than continuously pushed back, tells us there was a desire to follow through on it.

    I can appreciate that some people feel safer when they're pessimistic, it's easier to convince yourself that you were always right when things change, even if that change is completely unlike what you had predicted.

    But as we stand right now, there is very little between now and October 22 to suggest any reason to pull back. Cases are flat, potentially dropping. Hospital numbers well manageable and under control, vaccination rates continuing to increase (we're going to hit at least 90% of everyone 12+ by the end of September). Population mixing is practically at maximum.

    The same what-ifs and unknowns don't exist now like they did in May 2020.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    They were meant to terminate in restrictions being phased out in the final phase. That didn't happen. Therefore the plan did not go to plan.

    So far, vaccines have been used to create an abnormal situation where only certain people can gain access to buildings with a geolocated electronic ID.

    So the world will needs look very different if vaccines are to fulfill their function of returning us to normality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭godzilla1989


    Except for kids right?

    4 years olds in Juniors and up to wear them all day?

    Sick **** that is, to even suggest it is vomit inducing



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  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭Vaccinated30


    Where was it announced under 12s wearing masks in school? Seems to be some crap that is being run with as fact here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Says who?

    If they didn't do it last year, they won't do it this year. I suggest you take it your disgust up with the Indo journalist who's making a big deal out of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 784 ✭✭✭daydorunrun


    It is to unvaccinated people- remembering there are some who cannot take the vaccine for medical reasons

    To partially vaccinated, there are plenty of people who won't take a second shot after a bad reaction to the first.

    To Fully* vaccinated people who see the 'temporary' checking of medical status as restrictive to normal freedoms.


    *There is no such thing as fully vaccinated as immunity wanes requiring booster shots.


    Sorry Red this is my last reply- off to work now.

    “You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.” Homer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    We will open X on such a date and they did. How is that not going to plan? Are you really going to blame them for the renewed surges in cases and variants?



  • Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭Parachutes


    They are very left wing, progressive parties nowadays, yes.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    It is literally the case that we had a reopening plan and then didn't reopen.

    There are always going to be variants and surges of mostly asymptomatic case numbers. There are thousands of variants. There is a flu season literally every year.

    If there is another surge in mid-October then we are already committed to reversing our new reopening plan.

    Is this 'pessimism'?



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,906 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Normally I fully agree with this viewpoint. I don't think the roadmap is being made in bad faith. But the knee-jerk reactive decisions, and the lack of logic with some of the restrictions, which effectively render any roadmap useless, is where the problem lies. I mean if we could have any faith at all that there might be a real push to hit any of the dates that they might set out in this, then maybe people would believe them a bit more. But as it stands, I (for one) just don't. The last lockdown in January, there wasn't even an attempt to say when it might end. It was just "another 2 weeks.Another 4 weeks. Another 2 weeks". And that would have also been the case last November, if Christmas hadn't been looming, it would have just been let run until the Government/Nphet were happy with some undisclosed statistic that justified lifting restrictions a little. No commitment to anything, no attempt to try anything different, just an expectation that we would all sit at home and wait until we were told otherwise.

    I am not a conspiracy theorist, I do not think NPHET is out to get us - but I do have a major problem with the decision making and the apparent lack of ability to stick to anything that they say. My bigger worry is not COVID, it's the mad decisions that might get made on the back of random numbers that could change next month is my issue. We are terribly quick to make decisions, but extremely slow to reverse them - often too slow, as we end up in the situation we are in now, where it's coming into Winter as we reverse decisions. I don't think the models they work off are wrong, I think they simply provide a snapshot in time, and are extrapolated on, so their accuracy is tenuous at best. There are too many variants at play to make them truly accurate, but to base all decision making on them, decisions that affect an entire country, is way over the top by now. It is too hard for people to live with that level of uncertainty.

    They can publish all the roadmaps they want, but to be honest I won't be believing a word of any of them until next March sometime, when I have seen how this plays out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,035 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    That is the biggest load of crap

    The gardai do not enforce vaccine passports



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    @seamus I don't necessarily think the roadmaps are made in bad faith as such (sometimes I think they might be).

    But as I said last winter the bar is set too low for lockdowns and restrictions.

    Also a gradual six month pealing back of restrictions can be reversed in six hours.

    Then another six months is needed to roll the stone up the hill again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭Marty Bird


    No it was definitely the Gardai that raided the pub, all wearing superhero masks.

    All as cute as a dickens.

    🌞6.02kWp⚡️3.01kWp South/East⚡️3.01kWp West



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Where is this surge going to come from with nearly 80% of the total population vaccinated? I accept that some people will see a pint with a sip out of it as half empty but you need to provide justifications for what you imagine otherwise you're doing nothing more than another round of confirmation bias.



  • Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭Parachutes


    Sounds like something out of a George Orwell novel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Every winter people are together in enclosed spaces and pass respiratory viruses to each other. These vaccines do not give sterilising immunity and so don't prevent transmission. Many are in denial about this though the mystery of why we are most vaccinated with second highest cases is no mystery.

    There *will* be a 'surge' of asymptomatic case numbers this winter.

    We shouldn't even be focusing on these numbers imo but if dissolving of restrictions is dependent on keeping these numbers low, well...



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    @godzilla1989 wrote:

    The boss said it

    What did "The Boss" say?

    If you mean that NPHET asked for HIQA guidance in relation to whether masks should be in use by children under 13, then of course you'll be aware that this is not a new thing? You do inform yourself completely, of course.

    The same exact same question was asked by NPHET back in March, to considerably less angst and Helen Lovejoyism, it must be said: https://www.hiqa.ie/sites/default/files/2021-03/Advice-to-NPHET-on-face-mask-use-in-children.pdf

    If you read that report, you'll find that virtually none of the findings will have changed between now and March. The primary differences will be a more transmissible strain and almost complete vaccination of the parents of primary school children. The assessment will likely focus on both of these in terms of their recommendations.

    You'll note that the report found that for children under 11, mandatory mask wearing was likely to be counter productive since they would be less inclined/able to wear them appropriately. That won't change.

    But continue making a big fuss about a complete nothing if you want. It's your cortisol.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Happy to be wrong but not accepting I am until I see it with my own eyes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    I can pop in to this thread on October 23rd and be like 'Sorry I doubted you'. No problem doing that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,009 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa



    Other than the clickbait headline, there's no one in the article you quoted saying that primary school kids will be wearing masks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭Ashdublinc13




  • Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭Parachutes




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭SAMTALK


    The negativity on here is astounding.

    Things are getting back to normal , but some expect to just wake up and be back to pre pandemic times just like that

    Of course restrictions could come back at any stage during the next few months, depending on variants / transmission level. Reading this thread it's like Covid was only in ireland and NPHET/Government made it all up to tag us and control us and our lives would never be the same again

    Some people just thrive on negativity and when they cant find any they start on what could happen/ what might happen



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    It's "morketing", the same way toys companies exploit kids and parents every year!



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,051 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    It's advisory in the young lads school, probably advisory in every school but not mandatory

    Spread amongst kids happen but because they have smalller mouths, lungs and noses it doesn't happen as much so I can't see it ever being mandatory

    COVID Tracker app today saying that 25/55 people have been admitted to/discharged from hospital in the last 24 hours, a good sign we have passed that particular peak



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,051 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Well I'm not going to stop my child from doing what he wants just because we have differing opinions of what is cute so I'm not sure what your comment is hoping to achieve



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  • Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭Parachutes


    We've been putting up with this shite for the better part of 2 years, We've all "done our bit" for the "war effort" by getting double vaccinated. 90% of the country is now fully vaccinated, so if this will not get us back to pre-pandemic times then what will? Excuse us for being slightly annoyed!!



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