Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2024/25

mormank · 31-08-2021 3:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117826092#Comment_117826092

Well, because I think Utd actually are stronger this season than they were at the start of last season whereas my point was/is that signing a few players doesnt necessarily mean a team is better than they were at the start of the previous season. Chelsea at the start of last season is a better example. All the signings they made were meant to propel them to a title challenge and they didnt even finish ahead of us with no centre backs. This year we are being told Lukaku will propel them to a title challenge. It's the same every year, like this year we are being told Utd will challenge for the title after the signings theyve made. If like was a computer game then 100% I'd agree more there are more factors to consider than just player incomings.

As for city, I dont think them signing Grealish makes them better than they were two years ago when Aguero was startig games and fernandinho was still playing 30+ games per season in the league and playing brilliantly. It's the idea that teams are just constantly improving every year just cos they make 2 or 3 signings is a misnomer imo. Sure, sometimes they do but sometimes they don't. Not every signing works out as expected in real life, and squads can actually get weaker in other positions even with the same players present and available.

Agent Coulson · 31-08-2021 3:22pm

I was thinking whoever replaces Edwards biggest job won’t be bringing in players it will be finding the right replacement for Klopp a near impossible task.

Vicxas · 31-08-2021 3:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828489#Comment_117828489

I really like the Brentford manager, he has the same mentality and personality as Klopp.

Knex* · 31-08-2021 3:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827366#Comment_117827366

The cynic in me thinks they're saving that one for tomorrow to help diffuse the fans who will be going nuts at no signings.

Muahahaha · 31-08-2021 3:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828421#Comment_117828421

Well maybe thats a blessing in disguise because I dont think Henry is stupid enough to sell to the Saudis regardless of the offer. I doubt the Saudis are stupid enough to try either, even word of such a move would plunge the club into a huge crisis with many fans walking away.

.It would likely be to another American firm then and its pot luck what you end up with them. Maybe Henry isnt interested in selling right now but at the same time at his age he's not going to hang on forever, at the end of the day he is an investor who wants to realise his return. I think he has 5 kids from different marriages but dont think they are ever seen at Anfield, do any of them even work in FSG?

DrumSteve · 31-08-2021 3:38pm

Whenever Klopp leaves, I hope Tuchel is at home bored and needs a job.

31-08-2021 3:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828466#Comment_117828466

You understand that by signing the players they did, and improving their squad, Chelsea won the Champions league with five new signings in the final? ( Mendy/Silva/Werner/Havartz/Chilwell) Are you really arguing they weren’t a better team after those signings?

Now you want to go back two years because it was pointed out to you that the examples you used, Aguero and Fernandinho were not used regularly in City’s team last year, on top of the obvious improvement Utd have made by signing Varane/Sancho/Ronaldo?

As for Grealish, if Pep does again this year as he has often done, playing regularly without a CF, yes a player who assists and scores goals improves the team.

Would you like to revisit your point about clubs making new signings not improving their teams?

mormank · 31-08-2021 4:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828576#Comment_117828576

Nah I wont bother cos you're clearly not listening to me. I am saying signing players, even ones we all expect to improve teams, dont always improve teams. Champions league is a very different beast to the league as many many teams have won the champions league without being in with a sniff of winning their own leagues. Plus Tuchel coming in was the biggest factor in Chelsea winning the champions league or are you arguing that Chelsea would have won it with Lampard. In fact Chelsea winning the champions league with Tuchel kinda supports my point in actuality as they signed the bunch of players you refer to but still wouldnt have won the champions league with that squad without Tuchel, despite having improved their squad...Tuchel improving those intangibles I was referring to.

~Rebel~ · 31-08-2021 4:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828576#Comment_117828576

The broad point itself is fairly obvious and inarguable though surely - that we've no idea how signings will work out. Some will be successful, some will be fine, some will be flops. Of course making the signings improves their prospective chances, but it doesn't guarantee it by any means.

Chelsea have bought a striker that should guarantee a rake of goals. Which of course is hugely threatening. But they did that last summer too, and it just didn't happen. That's just the sort of club they are, they can keep rolling the dice with huge money, and eventually strike gold. Maybe it'll be this year, if not, they'll probably just go again next year with Haaland or something.

From the Liverpool POV, there's simply no competing with that sort of activity, but as the cliche goes, you focus on your own game - get that right and you've got a shot regardless what anyone else does.

As far as the CL win comment... I mean, it's kind of neither here nor there in a discussion about the league, no? Like, no-one knows better than us that you can challenge for a CL while being a complete irrelevance in the league. 4 CL finals for us in the last 16 years, and only in 1 of them were we in contention for the league - in the other 3 we were miles away. Cup football's just a different kettle of fish.

yourdeadwright · 31-08-2021 4:08pm

Looks like we are settling for a top 4 finish this season ,

awec · 31-08-2021 4:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828717#Comment_117828717

I think not even the most optimistic fan thinks we have a shot this year. Our squad isn't good enough to challenge for the league.

I am somewhat disappointed at how we've built upon the success of 19/20.

~Rebel~ · 31-08-2021 4:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828771#Comment_117828771

Yeah, I mean, of course it's disappointing. And we're definitely 3rd or 4th in line - would need an awful lot to go in our favour. But it's not like it was mismanagement or stingyness or something - the entire world caught on fckin' fire. It's impossible to look at things without taking the broader context of the most disruptive global event in 80 years into account. The clubs been making heavy losses since the win. It just sort of is what it is. It's unfortunate. But in any sort of perspective, it's amongst the least unfortunate of the things that have been going on with the same cause.

Widdensushi · 31-08-2021 4:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828752#Comment_117828752

Settling to keep the long term future of the club secure with contracts for the most of our important players, top class training facilities for our youth teams to develop, how much money did the club make the last couple of years? I presume with covid it was a loss, the reality is that we probably would not have won the Premier league if Coutinho hadn't been sold.

yourdeadwright · 31-08-2021 4:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828810#Comment_117828810

We won the Champions league in 2019 and bought Sep Van De Berg that summer while selling players worth 46.2 million

Its not about the current climate its what our owners do, nobody is asking to break the bank just to give the manger a dig out , Its 2021 & Origi is still our back up striker ,

Given the form of Mane over the past 12 months & Firmino over the last 18/24 we could be in big trouble if Salah or Jota get injured ,where do the goals come from

When Jurgen goes we are in major trouble ,

Widdensushi · 31-08-2021 4:36pm

I forgot we still have ojo, problem sorted....

garra · 31-08-2021 4:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828489#Comment_117828489

One bridge at a time. And for those concerned about Edwards leaving, let us cast our minds back to the departure of "the Brain", which was supposed to signal a decline in the management team. All a load of horse sh1te as we now know.

31-08-2021 4:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828717#Comment_117828717

The poster wasn’t making a broad point about whether signings will work out, if that was the viewpoint, I would agree. This however, is what mormank posted, and what I replied to:

”I keep hearing this season after season "other teams have improved" so much so that you would think by now the prem is full of teams that are far and away the best teams ever seen on the planet. I mean, have they improved?”

Can you really argue Chelsea weren’t improved by signing the 5 new players and a new manager who helped them win the CL, or MC by signing Dias, MU by signing Varane/Sancho/Ronaldo this year or Fernandez last year? All since Liverpool won the league.

.G. · 31-08-2021 4:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828771#Comment_117828771

Count me as an extreme optimist then! With the exception of Gini and Lovren this is more or less the same squad of players who posted 97 points and a CL and then 99 to win the league. Gini was replaced by Thiago IMO, just happened before he left due to circumstances and Lovren finally by Konate and nobody is telling me either player is worse than who he replaced. Add into to that jota has come in and we now have excellent left back cover too.

They are questions raised by the performance level of some last season and whether they can get back to their best, also all of course a bit older and some have fitness issues but any squad can have injury issues, just cos we had them in the past doesn't mean we will again. If everyone largely stays fit we're right in the conversation in my humble opinion.

yourdeadwright · 31-08-2021 5:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829002#Comment_117829002

I think people are really underestimating how good Gini is over the course of a season , Ever reliable in big games and get through an absolute a mountain of work , Midfield is weaker without him in it currently & that is before even going into the fact he was always available

I think Naby is the only thing we have like him for that left side of Midfield but he can't & won't stay fit

Also Mane was on fire back then he looks nothing like that player for the last 12 months ,

yourdeadwright · 31-08-2021 5:01pm

for f** sake Nat Phillips has signed a new long term contract

Why ?

Im happy for him but makes little sense ,

DrumSteve · 31-08-2021 5:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829028#Comment_117829028

He signed the contract to protect his market value.

.G. · 31-08-2021 5:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829024#Comment_117829024

I think people are forgetting that he played almost every game last season because we had no choice. All things being equal and everyone being fit I think Gini's game time would have been seriously reduced last season if our midfielders weren't always needed in defence and/or out themselves. Goes back to the point I believe we replaced him last summer and his game time would have reflected that given the chance.

I also bloody loved Gini and wish he was still at LFC. You're other points I addressed in my post. Past injuries are no guarantee of future ones and form can change, maybe it goes back to what it was and maybe it doesn't but one bad season isn't enough to make me give up on people like Sadio and Bobby.

BillyHasMates · 31-08-2021 5:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828803#Comment_117828803

Covid happened and ofc it greatly impacted the clubs finances. But it impacted the finances of every team. I don't think anyone expects us to have the spending power of Chelsea, City or United but we should be among the next group in terms of spend. We are 15th in the Premier League in terms of net spend for the last 5 years, there is no way we should be that far down the list. It would be even lower if we got a fee for one of our best midfielders rather than him run down his contract. Klopp has worked miracles and it seems the club expect him to continue doing so. He won't speak out against the owners but it's clear he doesn't trust most of our backup options. There is no reason why the club shouldn't be able to go out and find a better alternative to Origi and Minamino, especially with the AFCON this year.

We have a net gain for this transfer window and last January, with our season unravelling and our defence gutted we waited until the very end to get a guy in on loan for 6 months and paid peanuts for a Championship defender. It's worrying.

Sappy404 · 31-08-2021 5:22pm

Don't be surprised if Philips goes out on loan later today too.

~Rebel~ · 31-08-2021 5:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829087#Comment_117829087

Like, transfer spending is important, but you write this as if it's the only kind of expenditure that exists and all that matters. Our wages are way above all those other non-superpower teams, which is why we could actually keep a Champions League and Premier League winning team together. Not to mention rebuilding the stadium, and building a new complex. The money that's available has been spent. You can agree or disagree about where it's gone, but it has been spent. Personally I think they've made good choices for the most part. I'd love one or two more for depth, but in the grand scheme of things a hell of a lot more has been done right than wrong.

Yes we have to keep working miracles to compete - that's simply how things are. We will always be underdogs in comparison to Utd, Chelsea and City. We will always have to pull off miracles to compete. There's just no way around that.

yourdeadwright · 31-08-2021 5:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829080#Comment_117829080

Nobody was willing to pay the Market value for him today

Now his wages have just gone up meaning so has his market price & even if we accept the same price we would have today the rise in wages make a deal even mire unlikely ,

Jesus Christ does the club not learn anything from giving Origi a new deals

He'll either be on loan for the next 4 season's or just stuck playing in the reserves till deal runs out ,

TitianGerm · 31-08-2021 5:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829142#Comment_117829142

Has his wages gone up?

~Rebel~ · 31-08-2021 5:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829142#Comment_117829142

Do we know how much he's on? I'm not sure it's so much that he's going pricing himself out of moves... we know there was that one errant mistaken report putting him on 60k or something insane (and which Sportrac later removed), but its more accepted he was on around 5k. I doubt he's on more than 15 or 20k now.

As for the Origi thing, I mean, he was out of contract, so it's not like a sale price was missed out on or something.

I dunno, I just can't find any strong feelings about this either way. Peripheral player who might well not play for us again, extends a low wage contract before he's ultimately sold this year or next. shrug.

Fromvert · 31-08-2021 5:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829142#Comment_117829142

I hate the idea of giving players extensions to 'hold their value'. Origi has done nothing but cost the club 10m over the last two seasons and the one coming up in wages. He should have been celebrated after the CL win and sent off on a free, forever a hero. We'd need 10m now to just off set what he has cost the club and no one seems interested in him and we can probably all see why. All the stories about him are his so laid back he's lying on the floor half the time, no manager who will likely be in a scrap every year wants a player like that. He'll be here after Klopp leaves at this rate.

Phillips should have been sold for the reported 10/12m offers we got, apparently not enough for the club though. He'll be perpetually on loan or 5/6th choice now for the next few years as no one will pay the fee wanted, his value will unlikely rise when he's not playing or if he actually is playing it might fall too (I don't particularly rate him as a PL starter).

These lads have not put in a few seasons of performances to a high standard that can be bench marked against so no one is going to pay 15-20m and give them 50-60k a week in wages. And if you where buying players, Liverpool's history is we sell you **** duds for over inflated prices. I wouldn't touch any of the lads we are trying to shift if I was a mid table team, Shaq the exception as he has clear quality and found a high quality team to join.

mormank · 31-08-2021 5:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828717#Comment_117828717

Precisely. The first and last paragraphs in this post are exactly my point.

BillyHasMates · 31-08-2021 5:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829139#Comment_117829139

Don't know why you make a point in your last paragraph about comparing us to Chelsea, Utd and City when I deliberately stated I don't expect us to be compared to them.

I realise money is being well spent on other things, I have mentioned them myself in recent posts you may have missed. But the squad could do with better backup options than Origi and Minamino. Klopp definitely isn't happy with them since he doesn't use them. The club got added investment a few months ago. Where has that money gone? I can't believe there is nothing there to spend a reasonable amount on boosting our attacking options. I will see how it plays out this season. What we do or don't do in the market next summer will give a better indicator of what the owners intentions are.

happyoutscan · 31-08-2021 5:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829182#Comment_117829182

Too much hysteria on this thread for me.

This isn't Football Manager nor Fantasy Football but some don't seem to realize that. The business acumen side of it goes over the head of too many.

As you alluded to, with the new complex and Anfield extensions along with nicely balanced books we are fine.

mormank · 31-08-2021 5:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828944#Comment_117828944

Yeah, you're just completely missing my point.

Without Tuchel do you think Chelsea would have won the champions league last season even with those 5 signings you pointed out?

Also winning a champions league is almost irrelevant to league performances as we have seen umpteen times over the years. Even with Tuchel and all those new players they still only finished 4th just about.

Fromvert · 31-08-2021 6:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829182#Comment_117829182

But the last part is the issue, there's a good chance he won't be sold this year (as we've seen) or next as the club have a value that no one is willing to get to. The club don't seem to drop their value, they clearly still value Origi way and above what everyone else does. These lads in the squad are keeping it bloated at over 30 players affecting us having room to bring in others which it clearly seems to be 'players need to be sold before new ones are bought'.

31-08-2021 6:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829284#Comment_117829284

Tuchel was probably their best signing, I certainly don’t think they would have won without half the team that beat MC. You asked if the teams have gotten better, I literally quoted your post, you seem to be obstinate that the other teams have not improved as a result of new signings since Liverpool won the clear, clearly they have.

ballyargus · 31-08-2021 6:05pm

Get Coutinho on loan for a year. Just pay his wages. Easily done deal.

mormank · 31-08-2021 6:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829320#Comment_117829320

Yes but that was in a more general sense. In short club signs players=club improves team is not always the case is the crux of my point. Sometimes signing players just means a squad is still as good as it was at the start of the previous season, or even worse in some cases. Listen to any podcast or Sky Sports or whatever where they discuss transfers and its always just put as simply as team signs players therefore team is better.

It took Tuchel coming in last season to actually improve Chelsea, not the players that were signed, and even then they still only finished 4th same as the year before with only 1 point extra. How do you explain Chelsea only gaining 1 extra point in the league after signing Silva, Havertz and all other players you referred to? We were told last summer Chelsea had vastly improved after signing all those players and yet they only managed 1 solitary point extra in the league. They had all those players in the squad when they were 8th or wherever they were when Tuchel came in. Tuchel coming in being one of those intangibles im referring to with regards squads and how they perform. Champions league win is basically irrelevant cos the best team does not always win so you cant really use it as a barometer like you can with the league.

BorneTobyWilde · 31-08-2021 6:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828869#Comment_117828869

Andre Silva was ideal for us, scored more than Salah, Mbappe, Haaland last season, snapped up by Leipzig for peanuts.

Utopia Parkway · 31-08-2021 6:23pm

Half expecting a 6 year contract extension for Origi before midnight.

~Rebel~ · 31-08-2021 6:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829270#Comment_117829270

It was a direct response to your statement; "Klopp has worked miracles and it seems the club expect him to continue doing so."

The rest of my post was in relation to all the other teams, but that line from you can only be taken in the context of a comparison with Utd Chelsea and City, because those are the ones we need miracles to compete with. Was just pointing out that that is the only way we can compete. We have to upset the financial odds, which makes miracles an absolute requirement. That's not a failing, it's just a reality.

Also, the club didn't get added investment. Some of our shares were bought from the owners. They weren't bought from the club. If I own a house, and sell a room of that house to you, it doesn't mean that money goes into the house, it means it goes into my pocket. Now, they said they would use some of it to still operate in the market, which is perhaps what allowed us to spend on Konate, while still tying up a rake of key players futures.

I'd imagine the owners will do continue to do exactly what they've consistently done from the start - do everything they can to raise more money, and to spend all the available money in the best way for the club. It's not surprising that when the money has dried up because of covid, that the breath of spending has been cut back. We'd all love to be competing for every big player, and I'd love if we had slightly better depth up front, but I can accept that the club's longer term stability and success is more important than taking a debt-risk on any given short term season. If the right options aren't available, and the less-than-ideal options only further fill the squad with lads not quite good enough, then I can see the logic in waiting. Like, Jota came in as a left-field unexpected option - but even he cost over 40m. We just might not be in a position to bring in more 40m backups. A year ago we were all complaining that 3 serious options wasn't enough. We got another one. Now we're complaining that 4 isn't enough. Yeah, maybe we should've dumped Bobby, but that requires finding a buyer that'll pay enough that he can be adequately replaced. This shts complicated I guess... and we only have a little piece of the information. But we know the club has less money, and we know most other teams (the most cash-rich clubs aside) are not spending much at the moment so its harder to shift fellas.

Fitz* · 31-08-2021 6:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829459#Comment_117829459

I'm just waiting for the Karius contract extension.....

BorneTobyWilde · 31-08-2021 6:29pm

Has NAT any Irish in him, would be great for Ireland to call him up.

31-08-2021 6:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829378#Comment_117829378

Jesus wept. Here is what you posted:

"I keep hearing this season after season "other teams have improved" so much so that you would think by now the prem is full of teams that are far and away the best teams ever seen on the planet. I mean, have they improved?"

Have MC improved? Yes, they added last years player of the year and won the Premiership at a stroll, this year they added Grealish who is already assisting/scoring goals.

Have Chelsea improved? Yes, they added 5 players who all played in the CL final, plus a top class manager, and Lukaku.

Have MU improved? Yes, they added Fernandes (Jan 20), Cavani, Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo.

All these teams have improved since Liverpool effectively won the league in early 2020, so to answer your question, definitively yes, our challengers for the league have improved due to the players, and in one case manager, they signed.

Talisman · 31-08-2021 6:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829473#Comment_117829473

With the departure of Shaqiri there is a spot in the squad for Karius to be registered.

TitianGerm · 31-08-2021 6:38pm

Wait until everyone see that Chelsea have gotten Saul on a one year loan. Outrage ensues 😃

mormank · 31-08-2021 6:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829497#Comment_117829497

Was Chelsea's squad improved by the 5 signings they made last summer and if so how come they only managed 1 extra point in the league with a vastly superior coach in Tuchel than Lamps had managed the previous season?

The champions league is irrelevant as we all know the best team doesnt always win it. I dont think a single soul here would argue our 2005 squad was better than our 2007 squad for example but it was the 2005 squad that won the trophy. Whereas it in generally accepted that over the course of a 38 game season the best team/squad wins.

We were all told last summer that we needed to worry about Chelsea because they had strengthened so much and we hadnt. We went on to lose all our centre backs and still finished ahead of them.

BillyHasMates · 31-08-2021 6:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829632#Comment_117829632

Tuchel only replaced Lampard at the end of January, bit unfair to give total responsibility for Chelsea's points total on him. He certainly is getting more of a tune out of them than Lampard. How is a Champions League win irrelevant?

SlickRic · 31-08-2021 6:58pm

Saul Niguez to Chelsea on loan has annoyed me now.

That was a deal we could easily have done, if not get him permanently.

Fromvert · 31-08-2021 7:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829672#Comment_117829672

It's definitely annoying as CM was one of the areas where they lacked a bit of depth. CB being the other if they got a few injuries but they're still trying to sort that with Kounde. If I was to look at the others I'd think Chelsea have the most complete squad.

City are light in the CF role and if Cancelo or Walker picked up an injury, FB would be an issue. I also think they're a little weak on the defensive side of midfield, Fernandinho is old and I'm not a huge fan of Rodri, he's decent to good but not as good as he should be to start for City at CDM.

United weak in CM and the dugout. The manager really holding that squad back, thankfully.

We're weak for competition/a new player for the front positions and need another CM. Also if TAA went down long term that would be an issue.

mormank · 31-08-2021 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829670#Comment_117829670

Well exactly. But the squad had those 5 extra players therefore had "improved" according to the other poster and yet they were in a much worse position in jan with the same manager the team had the previous season. How is that even possible if those 5 signings strengthened the squad unquestionably? My point is that there are alot more factors that go into how a squad performs than a simple equation of they signed x players therefore they are better.

Champions league is a high variance competition so is poor baramoter of how a teams squad is compared to previous seasons. Just like in poker tournaments the best player/team doesnt always win so its not as simple as they won the champions league therefore they are the best team in Europe despite how bonkers that sounds. Sometimes the best team in Europe does win it tho just like in poker.

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