Herd immunity is not going to happen

astrofool · 19-08-2021 6:02pm

I never mentioned frontline healthcare workers in my original statement, I do however think that the frontline workers are used as a shield by the rest of the organization to justify the rest of the organization's inefficiencies, and while we can probably enforce changes for the better at frontline (as could every single country in the world) that is generally not where the problems are.

McGiver · 19-08-2021 6:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770447#Comment_117770447

Absolutely. The Dutch system would be a good fit for here. German or French I think not. And UK absolutely not...NHS sucks and is a one-off event.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776311#Comment_117776311

Agree with a lot of this. But you hit the nail there on the coffin - Irish people don't want to pay more tax, they think the tax is high. The reality is that median earner in Ireland has the 3rd lowest tax in the EU (including VAT effect). Taxes are super low here, talking about income taxes, social and medical insurance contribution combined. Where I come from 13.5% (9% employee, 4.5% employer) taxable income goes to compulsory medical insurance (single-payer system), automatically deducted from the salary. That's separate to the income tax. This pays the universal free healthcare.

Universal compulsory medical insurance will need to be brought into practice here else the system will either collapse or escalate into the US uncontrolled costs spiral which is absolutely not what anyone wants. But HSE will need to be addressed too, deep reforms needed. And unions are not the main issue, certainly not.

And yes, this is related to this thread. The bed/ICU levels here are so abysmally small that the whole lock-down policy was built around it, everything had to (and still does) lock down hard, there's so tiny ICU capacity that you don't have any other options.

Goldengirl · 19-08-2021 6:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117777282#Comment_117777282

Nail on the coffin , indeed !

Problem is memories are short and when the present " crisis " is over , people will get tired of hearing/ thinking of it as compassion fatigue sets in , and other equally important worries regarding jobs , finances , education will be back front and centre in the national consciousness .

If nothing else is learned from this pandemic it is the prime importance of good, well managed public healthcare .

There is obviously a financial cost .

But the cost without it should be also pretty obvious by now .

McGiver · 20-08-2021 11:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117777327#Comment_117777327

My opinion is that Irish society (as a group) simply don't want to pay more tax and/or compulsory medical insurance (equivalent to say AT, NL, FR or even CZ situation) to fund public services and hence public services won't be ever good here (i.e. on a reasonable EU level). And here I include healthcare into public services.

I understand the reluctance of the taxpayer here to contribute more, especially for healthcare, given the extremely poor track record, so it kind of seems like throwing more money into the blackhole. But obviously, throwing more money/taxes into the system without some changes to the system would be stupid - both are needed. Nobody says - invest more and keep the system as it is and let the government waste money.

Unfortunately, you can't cheapskate out of infrastructure/public service deficit (at least 20-30 years in EU standards) by paying & investing less. Won't work. So what other options do we have? Invest more but also tighten the controls and purse at the same time (add in audits, controls, legislation to suppress nepotism/waste/bloating).

Goldengirl · 20-08-2021 1:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117779677#Comment_117779677

The only option then, is to move the Irish Health system to the Netherlands or Denmark !

skimpydoo · 01-09-2021 8:23pm

During this pandemic, there has been one person who has talked sense. That person is Dr John Campbell and in his latest YouTube video he states herd immunity isn't possible and that it's only a matter of time before we all get Covid. His latest video is below.

https://youtu.be/JhRb5hnTseU

Cuddlesworth · 01-09-2021 8:46pm

Dr of Philosophy, John Campbell.

ZX7R · 01-09-2021 8:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117834915#Comment_117834915

No

Nurse John camble🤪

Bubbaclaus · 01-09-2021 9:07pm

I don't think a nurse is best qualified to give such information. Immunology and herd immunity aren't exactly within the job spec. I'm sure the content is interesting but they are as qualified in the area they are talking about as I am (zero).

I'm sure they are popular with the Facebook crowd though.

skimpydoo · 01-09-2021 9:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117835067#Comment_117835067

Somebody with a medical background is well qualified to give such information. What qualifications would you prefer him to have? He is also not a quack spinning guff.

Bit cynical · 01-09-2021 9:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117834915#Comment_117834915

In fairness, it's fairly common for people to use "Dr" if they are putting out information in which they are academically qualified. For example, someone who puts out a chemistry blog or videos may use "Dr" if their doctorate relates to chemistry. Campbell's doctorate is in nursing, in which he is or was a lecturer, so he's entitled to use that title if the posts or videos relate in some way to that subject.

I've never taken him to be an expert on specific disciplines like immunology or epidemiology but I think he's good at summing up what those experts are saying and converting into something the public (i.e me) can understand.

Having said that, I don't necessarily agree with everything he says but I think his channel is a good place to get up to date on developments around the world.

Bubbaclaus · 01-09-2021 10:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117835133#Comment_117835133

"Medical background" is such a wide ranging term to the point of almost being meaningless. A person trained as a nurse won't have had any knowledge in this area. A person trained as a medical doctor would.

It's two very different qualifications.

skimpydoo · 01-09-2021 10:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117835614#Comment_117835614

He knows enough to explain it to the every day person.

is_that_so · 02-09-2021 8:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117835686#Comment_117835686

As someone commented to me about their IT skills - I know enough to be dangerous! Single sources only are dangerous and you can learn more in a couple of Google searches than 15m with him. He's also pitched for Ivermectin more than once and then there is that issue of a nurse offering ideas and opinions on things they don't really have the expertise in. I watched a brief 5m of him once where he "analysed" our caseload and it was little more than waffling about a graph. For all our flaws this site has offered a whole lot more useful information during the 18 months, but each to their own.

mariaalice · 16-11-2021 2:02pm

I understood it as when everyone or almost everyone gets covid or has the vaccine it would be all over?

Loafing Oaf · 16-11-2021 5:33pm

What happened to heard immunity?

Haven't herd...

yosemitesam1 · 19-11-2021 9:45am

It was never possible

spaceHopper · 19-11-2021 11:14am

They were wrong and this continues, pure and simple.

We need to learn to live with this. The current vaccine only gives short lived protection and not immunity. We'll need boosters and hopefully a better vaccine will come along.

patnor1011 · 19-11-2021 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117836552#Comment_117836552

Oh well, given his qualifications and expertise he most likely knows more about this than certain IT person who shall not be named but who likes to be in front of the cameras talking about what we should and should not do.

Herd immunity is not going to happen

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