4 year olds able to change gender in Scotland

I have children.

The only thing that should be said to a small child that says they're the opposite sex/gender is something along the lines of "Okay, that's nice, what will we have for dinner?"

If it's persistent, then you might get a referral to a CAMHS psychiatrist/psychiatric nurse (my wife is the latter) for assessment.

At no point should transition be discussed with a small child, and no way should anything like this ever be kept from parents.

There's a big part of the equation you guys are leaving out imo, which is that there has to be x amount of people claiming to be transgender who aren't genuine and are using the title as some sort of narcissistic power play. It's not outside the realm of possibility that people get off on it when they feel power over others because they're forcing others on how to address them and the consequences that may bring if they disobey. There's probably countless reasons why some people jump on the bandwagon, e.g. lonely outcast type sees the opportunity to join a protected group.

If everyone was genuine it would be a different story, but human nature cannot be blindly trusted. If someone wanted me to address them differently, I would want to meet that person and find out for myself whether or not they seemed genuine, if I thought they were I wouldn't have a problem with it. If I thought they weren't genuine I wouldn't entertain them. Imo there's a subset just reveling in the weirdness of it all like the goth movement but with the added benefit of being in a protected group which linguistically and to some extent professionally can exert control over other people. I don't think my stance is transphobic at all, I just have a low opinion of people in general and respect should be earned, anything else is respect through fear.

I see these videos on youtube now of people behaving like teachers almost in a smug tone explaining whatever new dozen pronouns we have to learn that popped up in previous days. They believe they're smart people and roll their eyes a lot but IMO they're the dumbest of the dumb just masquerading intelligence whilst talking about made up nonsense terms. The scary thing is millions watch and like those videos, it's like a cult in my eyes.

At least you recognise the nonsense of the pronouns. I would never consider myself a trans-activist, not even close. But the pseudo-intellectual bullshit being used to deny people their rights is too stinky.

I'm sure actual trans-activists would educate me on plenty.

The ones denying that there's 40 different genders, not believing in made up words which have no scientific evidence backing them up are the cult like ones?

The point you're trying to make sounds very silly to me.

I honestly didn’t know how to approach Cymro’s previous two posts because I found a lot of points contradictory, eg: Unicorns are aesthetically pleasing and she wouldn’t make any assumptions about gender (I don’t know has she ever come across bronies, but if my son were ever to give any indication of an interest in unicorns, I’d be steering him away from the idea pronto 😂), but then girls developing an interest in makeup isn’t something which shouldn’t be celebrated, but boys taking an interest in makeup is no doubt worthy of celebration because they’re not conforming to gender stereotypes and boys who want to be called girls names and wear girls clothes ARE conforming to gender stereotypes…

Honestly I couldn’t keep up 😳

But, even though you said intent matters, you still regarded her post as being ‘pretty transphobic’, which is a rather unkind interpretation when it’s clear from the context of the posts there was no intent to convey transphobia, or the idea that they had any prejudice against people who are transgender. Her overall point was (and to be fair always has been), criticism of gender stereotypes in society. I don’t agree with much of it as it appears to be not much more than “society would be much better if everyone agreed with me and those who don’t just aren’t resilient enough!”. It’s self-contradictory, but I don’t think that’s intentional either.

The reason I picked up on your post is because of your suggesting that intent is critical, which is a good thing I share your view that intent is critical because initially upon reading your use of the term “unfortunate deformity” in relation to people who are transgender I thought I must be misreading that 😂

It did raise an eyebrow, but I understood the intent of the point you were making, and surely if your point is that people should be able to meet halfway, doesn’t that require you to lead by example and give other people the benefit of the doubt that they are not intending to cause offence by stating an opinion which differs in some cases vastly from your own?

You make good points too about things which society should concern itself with from your perspective, but that too isn’t much different from anyone else saying that society should concern itself with issues which matter to them from their perspective, in this particular context that of children in schools in Scotland who are identifying themselves as transgender, and guidelines for teachers from the DOE in how to cope with that reality.

(fwiw in any case the guidelines shouldn’t be read as suggesting that teachers are not to tell parents that their children are identifying themselves as transgender, it’s making the point that is not their role as the child’s teacher, recognising that the child has rights which must be respected, and their duty is to respect the rights of the child)

What’s actually a myth is your idea that we never get to hear the voices of people who are transgender who disagree with current policies and the way they’re going. They’re being paraded, lauded and celebrated by other people whose opinions they share, so to suggest we don’t hear them when they’re in a far better position to make themselves heard, is just nonsense.

You wouldn’t happen by any chance to be referring to Debbie Hayton, whatever their opinions are now, they are not the same as the opinions they held when they were given an opportunity by Buzzfeed to have their opinions heard -

That’s both from their perspective as a teacher, and the perspective of the children in the schools they taught in, at a time when teachers were calling for more help to support children who are transgender in schools, which is why the guidelines from the Scottish DOE came to be published.

The trans lobby itself has been sending out contradictory statements about what transgender is. Some posters here have explicitly stated that it's nature gone wrong and one trans poster said in the gender identity thread that she wouldn't wish it on anybody.  

A concurrent explanation is gender is on a spectrum for everyone and those are that gender fluid/ non-binary / trans are those that simply exist on a more rare part of that spectrum. This is hardly nature gone wrong then, it's just a natural characteristic of us humans. 

Your harsh interpretation of @[Deleted User] comments does't make any sense if you go by first explanation, because they only commented on how to deal with it from a health issue perspective. Your comments make sense in terms of the more recent newer explanation...but most people do not accept this new explanation. So clearly you thing everyone who states gender is not on a spectrum is a transphobe.

As far as pronouns are concerned, this is a classic example of Lefty political shenanigans. They know perfectly well that by declaring pronouns on their twitter pages, ostensibly done to show solidarity with trans folk and to agree with the idea of a gender spectrum that this will illicit a backlash and they will use that backlash as an example of widespread transphobia. I can't put into works my boiling contempt for the way those people operate.

@[Deleted User] point about wider society changing to accommodate transgender people is right because it has to the potential to create the most ludicrous situations like this one:

https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/news/20210616/remove-sex-from-public-birth-certificates-ama-says

So, do you agree with the above? Because if you don't you are a transphobe by your own definition of transphobe.

I'd also say that that recommendation shows what @klaz was saying earlier is right, which was that what the trans lobby are asking for today is by no means the end of it from them. And also it shows that this general issue does concern kids of 4 years old and even younger than that.

Ayyye, and Blindboy was just reclaiming the word spastic 😁

In any case, seeing as you brought them up, the people you’re referring to would experience the same resistance if they were attempting to place an equivalent imposition on society. As it happens, they’re not, and that’s why people tend to be far more reasonable in accommodating them.

Anyone who expects their unreasonable demands should be met, is likely to be met with an equal and opposite resistance in equal measure in being told that their demands are simply unreasonable.

@Morgans I'm sure actual trans-activists would educate me on plenty,

Here is one of the issues Tra's a self appointed title used mainly on twitter , people in a lot of cases are not themselves trans or person who self identifies as something else , don't have the first clue what they are actually doing they act like rabid dogs attacking anyone who they doesn't subscribe to their agenda ,and tend to fake offense on others peoples behalf who have not asked these self appointed people to do so,

Or you have people who self identify themselves but go looking for posts or discussions and claim this discussion is offensive ,that discussion is offensive ,I don't want the words, mental health , medical or psychological condition ,groom , women's rights, because they find them offensive to other trans people ,only trans men or gay men should get to discuss the topic in LGBT forums with strict criteria who can post ,

So nobody but 3/4 people can post on the subject , because they want an Echo chamber discussion not a free open discussion where their Ideological views cannot be challenged.

Yeah, good luck to them. I've never referred to a trans person by anything really. I'd call them by their name if I had to. I'd only personally know two people who identify as trans (one in pretty regular contact with).Both are sound and have always understand when people aren't precise. it appears that there are some trans people being extreme has given an excuse to damn and deny the experience of all trans people.

Nobody has suggested discussing transitions with children.