Dublin Bus tables conditional pay offer of 12%

5h45? Must be without walking time to the garage. Anyway, not gonna fight over fifteen minutes.

Still, if that's actually the case, then the entire proposal document is self-contradicting, or simply not clarified enough, or simply not thought through enough. Pages 17, 19, 25, and 26 more or less support my understanding, but at this point I actually want to see the proposed material properly.

There have been demands here for the offending document to be uploaded so that the problems drivers have with it can be explained.

Even after that, some anti-transport worker observers still aren't happy. They are only exposing themselves as obvious trolls and then the 'ignore' option becomes useful.

Wasn't going to post but here I am now anyways

Yes I worked in Dublin bus many years ago and I bailed very shortly after joining.

I think the issue with the company now is very much that it's just not sustainable anymore going forward and change is very much needed to make it viable to operate upcoming routes/expansion. The company aren't making any profit anymore, and with airlink, nitelink etc gone, go ahead coming in and many many other operators around the country, I hope drivers start to see the writing on the wall, that it's going to come to an end at some stage.

I saw people on marked in status who think they have a handy number, they don't. They are delusional, the roster is crap for work life balance as is, rest time between work quite bad and shift work not being great as is.

The spare drivers do have it worse too. Was spare myself and I tried hard to stay on the 4 day week and so a rest day every week but I got fucked off it and well I didn't last long after that.

The new roster system I don't think is unfair, everyone on one big roster all work spread equally. Just because a driver is there 15 year, doesn't give them an entitlement to a handy duty and to hell with the new drivers as if they are above them. You're all the same, drivers in the same job doing the same work, get over it.

If there is a genuine reason not to be on particular route because of an attack etc then I'm very sure the company will make accommodations.

There is a bigger picture going on and I still get word of mouth of NTA plans from different sources and yes I do very much believe a lot more of Dublin bus routes won't be given back in the near future so I do agree that turning down reasonable offers over selfishness will have very negative results.

I'm very much of the opinion too that if there is any official line on strike action that the public won't be in any way supportive.

The commute argument is invalid, everybody commutes one way or another, if you live in Dundalk and drive a bus in Dublin well you'd want to reassess your personal situation and if that commute and shift work isn't working then a job closer to home will probably be a better option. And hell, even if it did pay a bit less you'll save on fuel and vehicle maintenance.

Having being there myself and gone, I do agree it's very much about you satisfaction and if the job is causing stress, unhappiness, marriages to break up, no time to see kids etc then again you as a driver need to take a step back and reassess your overall situation.

All I'll say is I left the job years ago and I haven't looked back and it just faddams me how drivers there are so blind to the outside world, other jobs etc and what they are missing. I feel sorry for drivers in that respect because that's not a life.

Anyway there's my 2c.

TL/DR :

1) unhappy in home/work = move

2) Pay deal will be got one way or another weather you like it or not with agreements you won't like, if you are not happy with pay deal then see point one.

realistically the deal has been rejected, it is gone and will not be coming back and the drivers will not be accepting it, that should be clear given a 97% rejection rate, which is huge.

drivers aren't just going to move rather then try to keep the terms they have, if all drivers decided to simply move on we would be up the creak, so that is just not realistic.

a very vocal minority of the public never support transport strike action anyway, either way it will do nothing as the only way to solve disputes and end strike action is talks, not bashing a keyboard.

realistically any changes will absolutely be almost favourible to the drivers, because the reality ultimately is that no matter who operates the routes, terms and conditions will not be allowed to go down, any other operators will in the end have similar conditions to db, look at transdev at the luas operation, look at GAI.

not perfect just like db, but seem to have reasonable enough terms because they want the staff, and it was expected that terms would be crap at those operators.

nobody gets 100% of what they want, i have no doubt db drivers are aware of that and don't expect it, but a rostering system that is working well being replaced with a rubbish one that puts the company at risk of potentially losing staff is just not ever going to get support from the staff there, and saying they should just move on is not realistic and doesn't ultimately solve the issue, just creates more.

i don't know who has said there would be no privatization/whatever, they certainly didn't do so publically to my knowledge, in fact many have been saying it is coming for a lot longer then 2014/15.

either way, the good news is any attempt to drive down terms and conditions for transport staff will fail, whether bus eireann or dublin bus exist in the future or not, because we are a small market with a small population and realistically, few interested in transport work, and while different, the hgv driver shortage in the uk at least, will focus the minds of the uk bus operators.

if a strike happens it will just go the same way the others have, as i said the public generally don't support transport strikes and support or lack of has never solved a dispute within that field within recent years at least.

Well was told a few weeks ago that there would be trouble before Christmas but now with the country looking like another lock down on the cards it will probably be in the new year, anyway some of the things rejected in the vote are being sneaked into the busconnect changes happening right now, not contusive for a happy workforce to say the least.

Anyway here are a couple of pictures of the original pay deal that where totally rejected.

As stated in this thread all marking in as we know it, gone and drivers do all duties in the depot, neither spare or marked in are happy with this

we seen in the media talk of a 15% pay rise, it was posted here as 12% but as we can see its was only ever 11% and only 5% was guaranteed the rest relied on conditions, and we all know that aint worth the paper its written on, whats inflation running at currently in Ireland? well its 5.5% just for this year, so we would be earning less. https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/inflation-cpi

Its a bad deal, that obvious and no one here can argue its not.

We where then told after the total rejection of this deal that the unions have identified several issues as to why it was rejected after a consultation and survey of drivers, only problem is not a single driver know anything about a consultation or survey, to say this as furthered angered drivers is a understatement, most are ready to go on strike if its forced through.

keep a eye on new hires at the WRC and NTA in the new year

there will still be maintenence and other staff to strike, so it won't be the silver bullet that some would like to believe.

Can I ask what has any of this to do with anyone here?

This is a pay & conditions negotiation between your employer and their employees, and frankly the terms of that are none of our business unless we work in the company.

It is only going to be resolved by talks between the employer and the employees, through the unions, and frankly nothing anyone posts here is going to change that.

I can never understand why some people feel a need to post this sort of thing online.

Costs will always change with several different factors from new routes, changes, service required and other factors such as inflation, running costs etc. So yes very possible even likely that cost will go up in future to run public transport and that'll be with or without Dublin bus.

Proper payments that Dublin bus already get you mean. Having several union admin staff that under work at less than 30 hours work a week, or several inspectors, chief inspectors, revenue inspectors, driver inspectors, depot Inspectors and so on, all on over €80 grand a year plus whatever overtime they do at a rediculous wage rate but will never drive a bus in service if it ever had to come to it ?

I'm sure a private would do just fine with the money Dublin bus get at the moment to slim line it down and probably make a few euro from it too.

I would say Dublin is a terrible small city too and probably 3 or 4 operators at most. But I don't foresee industrial action from them in the same way as Dublin bus. Afterall, Go-Ahead have siptu in as their union and they have not gone on strike or the likes since they started up.

A lot of companies, not just National Express want in on tenders, if it's from a school run or a PSO tender etc. They'll make it work.

The issues they suffer are the very same issues Dublin bus are suffering, which is a shortage of drivers , so yeah it'll probably pass on. But Dublin bus won't fix it either. Dublin bus are under the very same threat as Go-Ahead because of these issues, but the difference I see is Go-Ahead are trying to make a good fix at it by putting supervisors out in buses and getting them running etc. Where as the attitude in Dublin bus is there's over time there if you want it but if nobody does it they'll call it out on the radio last minute begging drivers to do it as overtime on double rate. Again pushing costs up.

I think it's people working there just admit and accept this is happening weather they like it or not. The sooner they admit it then the sooner they can make peace with it and get on with it or move on.

That's not true either, every year here Dublin bus introduce the summer timetables with reduced vehicles to lower costs. When covid hit the drivers were only doing half duties and there were plenty of buses off the road. All the euros, bogies, Universal's, the xpresso routes etc , extra workings were all taking off the road nearly immediately, so we are already in that world.

€80,000 a year for an inspector is a joke for a lads job, I won't go into it because there's so much in it from nepotism to corruption and all sorts there but them jobs won't last and there won't be inspectors again with that kind of money. A waste of taxpayers money they are.

Going on your previous comment of issues and strikes getting worked up at me companies it's almost as like you expected one from Go ahead by now but there isn't a whiff of one. Or then again, maybe the drivers that were there had the right ideas, if they aren't happy, go elsewhere.

It's a tender, it's a set amount paid in increments agreed on a contract. It's not a guess or surprise when the operator gets paid. They know when they get paid and they budget accordingly.

Go ahead asking supervisors to cover runs and then agreeing to suggests they don't mind getting the hands dirty. Why can't a Dublin bus inspector do that ? I'll tell you why, because they think it's below them. They think that's it now they have the cap they don't have to work anymore, leaving the company to sink.

Great, so it's win win and terms and conditions are only getting better along with pay. So why are we here ? The deal by Dublin bus you might not like but it's the way forward and that's it now. They'll have to accept whichever way it presents itself now soon because the drivers have very little say anymore

You no longer work at DB, you have no idea what the atmosphere is like at the moment, redundancy is the hot topic of talk, there would be a mass exodus if offered tomorrow, and its coming 2024

You sound bitter, are you ok?

the deal has been rejected and by the sounds of it the staff will not be excepting it.

it's a crap deal and anyone with pride does not except crap deals, so no it won't be the way forward.

yeah the drivers at GAI have db to go to thankfully, so that is where they go and GAI will have to up their terms if they know what's good for them otherwise they ain't getting the drivers.

i don't sit around expecting strikes here there and everywhere, they are as they have always been, a last resort and i expect management to be communicating effectively with their staff.