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New Housing for All Plan launched

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  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭lossless


    Year after year after year, thoroughly informed decisions are made with precision regarding the housing "crisis".


    And the invariable result is the continuation of the "crisis". A coincidence of incalculable ineptitude with billions of Euro's incidentally up for grabs, or intelligent design?


    Two quite good articles here which should inspire an idea or two beyond the trojan horse mantra of "more supply will fix everything". It has not fixed anything, it is not fixing anything, and never will fix anything.



    And surprise, surprise, something from our own country. Fair play on identifying the problems, but note the hilarious refusal to join the dots among solutions. But it's a start in escaping the mantra of con-men. Much, much more is needed. Get to the roots, keep digging.



    Housing in this country is a long con. People need to start seeing the forest instead of the individual trees plonked right in front of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    They should see if they can get someone to house HAP recipients for free.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    If you are expanding the population, you have to expand the number of properties. So yes if you add 400k households by 2040 then you need 400k housing units.

    "Ireland covered in high-rise" LOL. You could triple the population of Ireland and still have a lower population density than Germany has today.

    I see a lot of blaming of politicians, vulture funds, social housing, etc for the Irish housing crisis. The reality we are in this position because for the past 40+ years this is what the majority of Irish voters wanted. NIMBYism, low density housing, property price inflation has driven us to this point. Any Irish people voted for it at every successive election.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,095 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Well ya HAP or rent supplement shouldn't be there if we had our social housing or cost rental program in gear.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭lossless


    This is the bare faced, blazingly obvious negation of everything these governments say, versus do.


    They will make a purposeful, informed decision to allow 400k extra people to arrive here, while out the other side of the mouth they say they will *try* to build enough accommodation to solve the housing crisis, which just so happens to be about the same number.


    What kind of idiocy has descended on the people of this country not to see the con? To see the purposeful intention and purposeful maintainence of this housing "crisis" for decades ahead?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭Amadan Dubh


    I'd be very curious as to who butters Eoin Burke Kennedy's bread. He must be well serviced anyway. Especially when he is just outright wrong with this paragraph;

    Ramping up housing supply has never once in our recent history improved affordability. Even at the high-water mark of construction in 2006, when a record 92,000 homes were built, property prices rose by 14 per cent. Back then the cost of construction was also soaring despite the fact we had an extra 100,000 construction workers in the country.

    Such a simplistic argument that "increased supply in 00s did not result in lower prices, therefore supply is not the solution". He totally ignores the fact that it was credit which fuelled house price increases in the 00s, which meant they actually crashed, not just meandered down from these highs, post-2012 and also he ignores that the reason prices were so low in 2012 was because we actually had a stable supply in that there was plenty of choice for people. No time for that journalist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    We dont have a functioning housing market.


    Young people are more and more disillusioned by the property market and the government are going to feel that backlash the next time votes are cast.


    But dont underestimate the number of homeowners in the country who have seen the value of their house increase by 5-25% over the last two years. That people gone from negative equity, people able move to lower interest rates because their LTV is better. Some of these are parents whose kids cant move out, but not all.


    There are two sides to every coin, don't forget that increasing prices suits a lot of people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,684 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Why would one want the population to grow thus? We're already facing an environment disaster due to over-consumption and pollution. More people is merely going to exacerbate that.

    As for blaming politicians, I have never done that. If there is blame to be had, it rests squarely with the older generations who have utterly failed to consider the long term consequences of the direction they steered the country and have handed a monumental mess to their children/grandchildren. Blame, though satisfying to assign, doesn't solve the problem however.



  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭FromADistance


    I'm sure there is... how many of them want back... ? Very few I would say. Would you go back being honest with yourself? What's stopped you to date?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,173 ✭✭✭Marius34


    " it rests squarely with the older generations who have utterly failed to consider the long term consequences"

    It's all relative. If I look at the same level economies from 1980, the countries from the same economic levels was: Venezuela, Spain, Israel, Trinidad and Tobago.

    They had elected a very different style governments, I don't see their young population having any better opportunities than in Ireland.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 32 RingSting


    The high chance of getting left high & dry again.

    Personally yes I would go back and have worked evenings & weekends on site for cash .



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    That's sounds remarkably unconstitutional

    O Brioin really hates the idea of people owning homes



  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭lossless


    We don't have a functioning property market because it has been orchestrated to be such.


    It's not an accident, it's not natural phenomena, it's not coincidence.


    As for both sides of the coin and how it suits some people, that number of people is vanishingly small. And you will find, in time, that they are the very people driving it. Quelle surprise.


    As for the incidental, conscious parasites clinging to the beast and siphoning their drop of profit, no need to wonder about their lockstep parroting of complete horse shyte. "More building", "vacancy taxes", gimme a break.


    For those unconsciously finding themselves "better off", innocents to some extent, they too will find that short term gain will be nowt compared to the final price, whether it be through simple capital gains tax through to burden of family chaos and all between.


    The ones behind this are literally publishing their ill intentions, it's just done through different sources. The numbers are there for all to see. It's not so much breadcrumbs to follow as it is entire loaves of bread arranged in the shape of pointing arrows.


    We're being treated like imbeciles and are responding like imbeciles. For years. It would be really nice if that could stop.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed when we finally get a SF government and realise the issues remain. A lot of other countries have a similar issue now with interest rates so low, Germany for example is practically the same as here now believe it or not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭.42.


    None of this Government plan will work and will piss off a lot of people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,684 ✭✭✭RichardAnd




  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭lossless


    This isn't a governance issue, it's a corruption issue.


    It has fook all to do with interest rates, supply issues, or any of the same goofballs that has been said year after year ad infinitum.


    The whole thing is rotten to the core. And whether Sinn Fein or a farmyard goose is next to ride the wave of extruded money, it will remain a corruption issue behind the scenes until rooted out by the pubes and set alight.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,910 ✭✭✭enricoh


    So house prices went up 12% in a year and the government is going to throw a ball of money at an already overheated market. Makes perfect sense!

    New helicopters all round for the developers!



  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭lossless


    The same crowd are, simulataneously,


    1) promising to tackle the housing "crisis"


    2) promising to build 300k "homes" by 2030


    3) anticipating and facilitating the arrival of, current projections accounted, a net inward migration of an additional ~300k people


    That in itself is the most egregious as it is raw, straightforward numbers.


    They may as well be building tower blocks and filling them in with cement for all the impact it will have. But what most certainly is happening is the exchange of hundreds of millions of euros, billions even.


    If that isn't bare faced lies about helping anyone but themselves, then nothing is.


    Then there are the numerous offshoots arising from the purposefully maintained pressure, stores of offshore wealth, the sale of passports to "investors", government-backed guarantees of rent profit, guaranteed capital appreciation, guaranteed exit strategies and so on.


    There comes a point where you have only two options of belief. You either believe that they have the collective intelligence of a bunch of grapes, or you believe that the "crisis" is an artificially created scheme to make money hand over fist.


    Call it what you will, I call that sheer corruption.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    We are part of the EU and have freedom of movement. So there isn't really a facility to prevent inward migration other than leaving or crashing the economy and removing demand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭lossless


    And you don't raise an eyebrow at the almost exact match of migration and housing promises?


    Not to mention that, from a quick perusal, ~half of net migration is from outside the eu27.


    Be it as it may, you either tackle an actual existing-today crisis with housing, or you don't deal with it via the excuse of imagined problems that may or not be real at some point in the future.


    Akin to fretting over potential water damage as you're deciding how to put out a blazing inferno burning your home down.


    Follow the money. What option will make the most money. Bingo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    We get a lot of high quality immigration that is a massive benefit to the country. I don't think there is any conspiracy, no. I think governments would find it difficult to organise a piss up in a brewery.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭lossless


    So you're on the train of they are imbeciles presiding over the housing crisis, just so happening to be surrounded by hundreds of millions of euros floating about, via the policies they have been implementing year after year.


    Well, I most certainly don't believe that. And I'm not the only one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    'The question that no one asks is why the focus is build, build and build some more. In a world facing issues like the climate crisis and the unsuitability of infinite growth economics, I find the idea of constant expansion to be counter to the often stated goal of achieving "sustainability".'

    Better think about something less serious. Dublin "growth" is just a little fart compare to growth in other parts of the World - especially "developing" areas like Asia and Africa:

    Still we have our own problems and in my opinions they are mostly caused by incompetent (corrupted) politicians, that suppose to be easy to fix every next General Election - but for some reason it isn't :(



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,621 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    Ireland isn't even close to overpopulated, so worrying about that is a bit pointless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    I think it is because there are often short term populist type solutions to things, because that is what people demand, rather than longer term solutions. These type of things tend to have unintended side effects. Say, the rent control 4% limit. Of course everyone is going to raise the rent by 4% every year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭lossless


    It isn't overpopulated in the sense that we have space to stand shoulder to shoulder. I remember reading before that the world's population could do so on only the tiny isle of man (iirc).


    That has nothing to do with nothing. We are overpopulated in terms of housing, and the government is publishing it's intentions that will correct nothing, not an iota. They are essentially going to build solid stone monuments, but a lot of money will change hands, so...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,684 ✭✭✭RichardAnd



    Ireland is suffering from a shortage of housing because there are too many humans for the housing that is available. In that sense, Ireland is indeed overpopulated. Furthermore, social services and healthcare are suffering from a demand that cannot be met. Again, this is because as things stand, there are too many people.

    This is, of course, obvious, and the solution usually offered is "build more houses". This is a great solution in terms of generating economic growth, but there will come a point when it becomes untenable. We hear talk of sustainability all the time, but what is sustainable about an ever increasing population? More humans means more consumption, more pollution and more loss of environment.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    I don't really accept our labour/materials/land shortage is as extreme as stated. We're clearly not at capacity for what we can construct when we're still building *enormous* student accommodation complexes nobody wants all over the capital.

    It's fine to point at planning as a roadblock for getting anything built, that's true, but it is clearly a system failure on the other extreme to have such a shortage of homes on the one hand and a vast surplus of hipster style dogboxes, sitting empty since they were built, over on the other.



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