Boosters

03-09-2021 1:37pm

Interesting slant from world-leading immunologist

Is it a booster at all?

https://www.statnews.com/2021/09/02/the-debate-over-covid-19-vaccine-boosters-what-to-call-them-and-whether-theyre-needed/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

03-09-2021 1:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841918#Comment_117841918

What you have just stated has nothing to do with interpreting statistics.

03-09-2021 1:45pm

firstly what's your basis for "needs one"?

I want to cut my Long Covid risk by increasing my chances of not getting infected and then if infected the vaccine reduces long covid risk again

who decides if I don't "need one" on what basis

then looking at an ongoing cost 20 euro a person + 20 jab charge say 40 euro = by everyone in the country (5 million which it won't even be so less) that's 200 million

that figure pales into insignificance vs increased lost workdays for more cases and close contacts self-quarantine, increased health care cost for increased severe cases and long covid conditions, tax lost on business activity that vaccines allow to continue and give people confidence to go out etc (even people who don't risk dying)

the cost benefit analysis is a no-brainer

ohnohedidnt · 03-09-2021 1:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841933#Comment_117841933

If your worried about being part of what is a an almost insignifanct % at risk form the virus, based on personal experience, I think your experience is more likley to impact your assessment of the risk.

I'm sure he regularly drives which puts him at more risk than covid, but his assessment of that risk is different based on experience.

is_that_so · 03-09-2021 1:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841966#Comment_117841966

Someone whose immunity level has been reduced enough to be at risk. Apart from the obvious groups we will target, we really know nothing about that. We also can't say anything with any certainty about COVID in 2022 and beyond. I'm more inclined to see treatments as playing a bigger part, part of that personal responsibility.

03-09-2021 1:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841988#Comment_117841988

And all of that has nothing to do with statistics.

Dav010 · 03-09-2021 2:01pm

I don’t think there is any benefit to vilification of people who choose not to either get a booster, or the vaccine in the first place. It is a personal choice.

The science seems to be heavily in favour of the benefits of vaccination, and certainly mutations which could become more and more deadly are less likely to occur the less people become infected, but this should not over ride peoples right to choose.

At the same time, I think it is vital that every measure be take to protect as much of the population as possible, if that means excluding unvaccinated people/ those who won’t take the booster from social/workplaces, so be it. The general populous should not suffer as a result of decisions of the few.

03-09-2021 2:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842008#Comment_117842008

the cost argument of vaccines is not a factor in comparison to the beneft as said.

re treatments

there are no silver-bullet treatments yet and most of the ones that are around are very expensive and not even sure how much they help yet - e.g. monoclonal antibodies etc which is over 1000 a go and has to be given through infusion (e.g. an iv requiring admin and supervision so more cost )

the only cheap treatment is the cheap steroid for severe hospital cases which decreases mortality (dexamethasone)

if great treatments appear great but they don't exist right now

godzilla1989 · 03-09-2021 2:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841927#Comment_117841927

Yes it's a third dose and then you'll a need fourth dose after a while and a fifth dose, a booster is a nice marketing term as that world-leading immunologist just said

Truth is we are dependant on that medication now for life

Like someone on blood pressure medication, you can't just stop taking it and expect to be ok, you might die

It's a scary thought and it's easier to just say a booster :)

They treat us like children

03-09-2021 2:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842388#Comment_117842388

it's not sure how it can play out - there will be vaccine modifications in 2022 - you can't say that a second generation modification could not beat the virus's escape ability

And there is a massive difference between getting a jab once or max twice a year vs taking medicinal drugs every day in terms of firstly actually having to take them and secondly side effects from constantly taking drugs

godzilla1989 · 03-09-2021 2:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842413#Comment_117842413

I haven't taken a vaccine or even been on antibiotics or any medication since I was child and now I have to potentially take medication once or twice a year with known side effects

It's not good which ever way they dress it up.

True they might have better 2nd gen vaccines that dont wane in the future, who knows

03-09-2021 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842471#Comment_117842471

yes there are side effects but nothing compared to the Covid side effects, not just the fatal ones

For the AZ vaccine in the UK over 48.6 million doses 72 people died - one in 660,000 (Covid has killed over 130,000 in the UK so far - yes risk profile for ages etc applies)

That's about the same odds of being killed by lightening each year (in the US anyways), never mind being hit by it

yes you have less chance of getting Covid vs taking a vaccine but the benefits from my reading make it worth it

astrofool · 03-09-2021 3:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842471#Comment_117842471

A lot of people get the flu vaccine every year, they're not dependent on the flu vaccine, but take it to reduce spread and reduce their own chances of becoming ill.

SARS-COV2 will be different for the next few years as it's so infectious and relatively deadly and cheap treatments aren't available, till then, it'll be an annual booster for most people, then most people won't need it anymore.

Or don't take it and get excluded from activities (mostly international travel) but don't cry about it, live with your choices.

03-09-2021 3:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842471#Comment_117842471

Every single medication has side effects for some unlucky few. If you are so concerned about such effects, I recommend locking your doors and staying inside as Covid is much more likely to cause such effects.

I have never had antibiotics in my life, nor medication since I was a child. But I've also never had Covid. Even though I've never been in a car crash, I still wear my seatbelt every time I drive. Even though seatbelts themselves can be dangerous if your car ends up in water or on fire, I do not hesitate in wearing one as I know it's much more likely that it will instead act as my primary form of protection in an accident.

is_that_so · 03-09-2021 3:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842638#Comment_117842638

As a proportion of total population it averages under 20%, which includes many in groups who would be at risk. They'll have a hard time convincing people who don't even consider a flu jab to queue up once or twice a year for a shot they may not need.

godzilla1989 · 03-09-2021 3:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842638#Comment_117842638

They old folks though

godzilla1989 · 03-09-2021 3:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842640#Comment_117842640

Yes it's the reality now, medications for life, thanks China

03-09-2021 3:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842674#Comment_117842674

I don't see what your reply has to do with my comment.

If wearing a seatbelt was a choice rather than the law, would you wear one? Why or why not?

03-09-2021 3:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842665#Comment_117842665

so first if was cost but that argument didn't stand up

now it's queuing up is it?

going into a local doctors or pharmacy once or at most twice a year to wait ten minutes max - right

I'll do it for sure as I don't want to get covid and most certainly do not want to roll the dice with long covid as I value my ability to play sports and not be fatigued (vaccine reduces risk of both infection and getting long covid)

is_that_so · 03-09-2021 3:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842710#Comment_117842710

Waste and cost are two of them but the science is not there on it. You seem desperately keen to get one and that's fine. It's really not incumbent on you to make other people think like you unless it's just an itch you have to scratch. It will be up to the HSE to address if they embrace your boosters for all campaign!

03-09-2021 3:35pm

I'm keen to reduce my risk.

I'm not desperate but would pay for my own vaccine yes

as I've seen what Long Covid can do through seeing it first hand - believe me you don't want to go there

Youngish person at the very very top with hugely successful business and fit now constantly fatigued + other symptoms (and depressed as a result)

copeyhagen · 03-09-2021 3:47pm

all this long covid shite.

dont remember ever having a long mild flu... and yes, i had covid.

astrofool · 03-09-2021 3:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842673#Comment_117842673

You must live a very sheltered life, but flu vaccine is targeted at everybody, college campuses and a lot of workplaces have a flu vaccination program every year, pharmacists also give it out (the flu vaccine for kids is now a nasal spray).

godzilla1989 · 03-09-2021 4:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842682#Comment_117842682

Seat belt was a silly analogy, nothing to do with medication

One_More_Mile · 03-09-2021 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842674#Comment_117842674

Look at it like a Netflix subscription but with big pharma being the winner

godzilla1989 · 03-09-2021 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842836#Comment_117842836

Flu vaccine is completely different, young people are not dependant on them and don't need to take one to eat in a restaurant or go on a plane or compulsary in there work like a nursing home to keep job

Your trying to normalise the annual vaccine, but it's not normal, most young healthy people don't take annual medication like a flu vaccine, that only started in 2021 with covid shots where we have to take them to live life with no restrictions.

godzilla1989 · 03-09-2021 4:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842965#Comment_117842965

Yeah i'm on a HD account with my 2 doses, a premium account with 4k will be available soon with your 3rd dose :)

Genius move by Pfizer as well, making a vaccine that wanes after a few months and your dependant on it to keep you of out hospital

Also when you get a booster are you considered fully vaccninated ( if the term even exists anymore ) straight away or after 14 days like with the 2nd dose?

At the moment, it's 1st dose, then 3 weeks later 2nd dose, then 2 more weeks till you protected, then at 4 months or so your immunuity begins to wane ( Israel data )

So your really only maximum protected between 5 weeks and 16 weeks, before those 5 weeks not fully protected and after 16 weeks it wanes not fully protected

They created a vaccine good for 11 weeks full protection then or round upto every quarter for the revenue :)

03-09-2021 4:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842827#Comment_117842827

count yourself lucky then

going "oh I got covid and didn't get Long Covid so it's rubbish" is bull

most people who get Covid don't get Long Covid but a significant number still do

The number of people in the UK experiencing self-reported long Covid that has lasted for at least a year has risen.

The estimate for people in private households in the UK increased to 384,000 from 380,000 a month earlier.

The new statistics come as research suggested being double-jabbed almost halves the likelihood of long Covid in adults who get coronavirus, cutting the chances by 49 per cent.

Fatigue was the most common symptom (experienced by 58 per cent of those with self-reported long Covid), followed by shortness of breath (42 per cent), muscle ache (32 per cent) and difficulty concentrating (31 per cent).

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/rise-in-number-reporting-long-covid-lasting-for-at-least-a-year-1179171.html

03-09-2021 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842947#Comment_117842947

If it's such a silly analogy you should be able to easily answer the question.

astrofool · 03-09-2021 4:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842968#Comment_117842968

Annual flu vaccine has been around for decades, giving it to young people has been around for decades. Vaccines are a normal part of life, every child of a not idiot in the western world has had numerous vaccines, mortality rates of adults and children have greatly decreased because of them.

During a pandemic the passes are to reduce the opportunity the virus has of being passed from person to person and making them sick and also keeping the hospital numbers down to manageable levels. This will pass, but it will likely be a few years before vaccines aren't required for all travel internationally (and vaccines have been required for travel to multiple locations before the pandemic as well).

There is no "normalising" vaccines, they are already normal.

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