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Katherine Zappone Envoy Gig

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    No need for the personal digs.

    Your argument that Zappone asked Varadkar had he heard about her job didn't constitute he being aware that there was a job doesn't hold water.

    I quoted from the links I posted.

    On Thursday Mr Varadkar said the first he had heard of the Zappone appointment was in a text from Mr Coveney on July 19.


    The messages begin on Friday July 16 when, Ms Zappone texted Mr Varadkar:

    “Hi Leo, from the Piglet [a Dublin bar]! I was expecting to hear from Simon C about my appointment as Special Envoy for Human Rights and LGBTQ+ issues. Have you heard anything? If you around next Wednesday hope to meet you.”

    "Hi Leo, from the Piglet [a Dublin bar]! I was expecting to hear from Simon C about my appointment as Special Envoy for Human Rights and LGBTQ+ issues." If Varadkar is incapable of understanding this to mean that A) there's an Envoy job and B) Coveney is involved, he shouldn't be allowed out of the house alone. If that's your defence for him I suggest you re-think your strategy.

    Varadkar lied. He knew there was an Envoy position days before he claimed he did.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And Leo is playing the percentage game here, hoping Conveney's sin will be deemed bigger than his lie and therefore he survives. Otherwise known as 'throwing somebody under the bus' to save himself, something Leo has been accused of before.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,663 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Wouldnt agree its not a resigning matter from what we've seen so far. Coveney tried to pull a stroke with a crony appointment on the last day Cabinet sat before the summer break, he completely blindsided his coalition partners in doing so. If Martin had any balls he would demand Coveneys head in the same way the heads of Dara Calleary and Barry Cowen were scalped. But Martin doesnt have balls, its clear he just wants the easy life.

    Whats more interesting here to me anyway is that Fine Gael are eating themselves alive. There is an internal struggle between Varadkar and Coveney which has come about because Varadkar consistently loses elections, the most recent being the DBS by elections and how he ended the political career of Coveney ally Kate o'Connell. Its clear some within FG see him as an electoral liability and want to see him replaced before the next GE. Thats facing push back from the Varadkar camp who are eyeing up a cabinet reshuffle when he gets to be the Taoiseach again, Leo is literally their ticket to a plum job so they are fighting for him now. That explains why Charlie Flanagan openly criticised Coveney at the Comittee during the week and also why Patrick 'Donovan was acting as a gopher to find out the source of Cabinet leaks

    What is driving much of this debacle is Varadkars attempt to wound Coveney to ensure he doesnt face a leadership challenge, he is trying to head him off at the pass. Thats why Varadkar released those text messages, it was designed to wound Coveney for any upcoming leadership contest. The timing of the text message release was also classic FG schoolboy stuff, Varadkar did it at the moment he knew Coveney was flying in the Government jet. Imagine the scene of Simon enjoying the cream leather seats of a private jet along with a nice glass of red wine and suddenly his advisor comes down to tell him the news Varadkar is after completely shafting him and they need to get their spin story ready. This is classic FG student politics, they get off on this type of stuff. It was the same with Kate o'Connell and the bale of turf they planned to present her at a FG meeting and the M50 sign they placed outside her pharmacy in Rathgar. They really are some bunch of children.

    This Varadkar Coveney battle is set to continue. All the while Paschal is sitting there making sure not to interrupt his enemies while they are making mistakes. Simon Harris also has his eyes on the top prize as does Helen McEntee who said as much in a fluff piece with the Indo in June. We're really only getting started on the internal power struggle within FG and they are already eating each other alive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    We don't know he lied, maybe Katherine Zappone is a Walter Mitty type character and Leo could have reasonably thought Simon would come back saying he hadn't a clue what she was on about.

    This is a woman who started message stating she was in a wine bar (not being from Dublin I thought it was Leos pet name for her, a weird term of endearment to do with Winnie the Pooh - Leo does have form with pop culture references).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Economics101


    You misinterpret what I said. I was saying that in more normal times all this might have been privately talked about over a cup of coffee. I can't see how that could be subject to FOI barring really Orwellian surveillance. Just because the pandemic forces ordinary conversation into electronic mode the whole thing becomes an FOI matter. Personally I think this is a bit OTT, but if you don't then, fine.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You can't get somebody's personal information through Freedom of Information.

    As I pointed out already, the best that a FOI would have got would have been a heavily redacted text exchange, which would have prompted more conspiracy theory stuff from the usual suspects.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    I no longer even know what it is you're actually arguing about now, Zappone was already named as the person they had earmarked for the crony position, it was already out there in the public domain, she texted Leo on his (assumedly) govt phone, asking about a government role she had been promised, therefore it was subject to FOI. Pointless, and pedantic to suggest there would have been any point redacting Zappones name, I'm sure Matt Barrett was ok with Leo releasing texts with his name, but apart from that - what "*personal information" do you think outside of FOI was there?

    It seems you now have become gamekeeper turned poacher, and are arguing Leo is in the wrong? I can bet you a penny to a pound if anyone that a shinner came out claiming Vardkar potentially broke GDPR rules, you would be on here arguing to the hilt as to how that was an incorrect assesment, and I'd probably be in agreement.

    My how the times have changed. 🤣

    They could have talked about it over a cup of coffee if they wanted, either in private or in a public establishment, but they didn't, they chose to communicate with each other via electronic means, and that communication was subject to FOI.

    Leo and Simon got sloppy. That's about the long and short of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I said if Leo didn't get their permission it was a breach of GDPR to release all of those texts.

    I assume he got their permission, because he knew that if he didn't, all of you conspiracy theorists would be claiming there was something suspicious in what was redacted. All in all, the texts are as bland as could be expected.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Absolutely correct. The text exchange has the clear implication that Varadkar didn't know what she was talking about so asked Coveney what is this, so the first time he knew what is was about was the text response from Coveney.

    Anyone who can't see that is acting the idiot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    As clearly laid out, twice, she texted him about it. He said he hadn't heard about it. Lie.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    I would say it's somewhere between highly unlikely, and not a snowballs chance in hell did Zappone, or certainly Coveney give Leo permission to release the texts. Zappone comes across as an entitled spoilt brat in hers, and Coveney was completely blindsided by his exchange being released.


    I don't believe you really believe that he got their permission either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I think Coveney has pulled back since his leadership challenge and the initial mess of this has pushed him even further back. In 2023 he'll be reshuffled and by the next election he'll be into his early fifties. Will he still harbour leadership aims then, especially with the two kids coming into the frame, or just remain a good servant of the party? The next election should see another FG or scenario and if they get in again and Leo stays on, Coveney will be touching 60 on the other side of it. At that point it's probably over to the young bucks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    She texted him about it, he didn't know what she was talking about, so he asked Coveney, so Coveney told him what it was all about, on July 19, the same date that Varadkar says he became aware of what it was.

    There is no lie there. You guys really need to get Leo out of your heads.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    She texted Varadkar about an Envoy job she was waiting to hear from Coveney about. She even gave the title. Now while you might try say Varadkar didn't know details, he was informed by text, by Zappone that she was waiting to hear about an envoy job from Coveney.

    Varadkar knew she was waiting to hear about an envoy job from Coveney. He said he first heard about the job days later. You are arguing black is white here and turning to personal digs and insults.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    She asked had he heard anything about 'her appointment'.

    Varadkar says 'nope', he hasn't heard anything.

    That does not for a second mean 'he didn't know what she was talking about'.

    It just means he didn't know anything about the status of 'her appointment'.

    If she hadn't already been given the job she wouldn't be referring to it that way.

    If it tumbles out, in the hapless way the truth about this has so far, that the party was, in fact, a celebration of that appointment Leo will be deeper in the dooda than he already is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    What did she text him? If he read it, he certainly responded to it, he then knew she was waiting to hear about a freedom of expression envoy position off Coveney. He knew as of the text, (although I'm confident he knew all about it prior to that, which is why she texted him regarding it).

    You'll be saying he didn't know it was Zappone next.

    We are talking about Varadkar so much to answer your false and ridiculous claims that he wasn't aware. Aside from being unbelievable you are making Varadkar out to be of very low intelligence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Would also be good to find out what the 'speech' was about. She was very keen Varadkar was there to hear and says she would delay until he arrived.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Did you even read the text exchange? She asked him did he know anything about the job, he said nope, he went off and texted Coveney asking what was it, Coveney came back and told him what it was. That is therefore the date on which he knew what she was talking about.

    Happens all the time with me. Somebody asks me do I know anything about such a proposal/initiative. I say nope, go and ask about it, then when I am told about it, that is when I know about it.

    Martin described some of this stuff as overdramatic and melodrama. He was understating the level of hyperbole of some.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    You saw me quote it so enough of the personalised slights thank you.

    He knew A) there was a freedom of expression Envoy job Zappone was asking about. B) He knew Coveney was involved.

    He claimed the first he heard about it was days later. He lied.

    You need to read the texts. She didn't ask him had he heard anything about the job. She wanted to know had he heard from Coveney about the job. I can see the goal posts getting shifted to suit the narrative.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    did he know anything about the job,


    No she didn't, she asked him had he 'heard anything about her appointment'.

    That was answered by COveney, he updated what the status of 'her appointment' was. The 'anything' she was looking for off Varadkar.

    Had he been asked what you say...his next question would have been 'what job?' or 'I didn't know you'd got that job, congratulations'. etc.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Really lads, your posts are getting even more disingenuous than ever. Did you read the texts?

    "I was expecting to hear from Simon C about my appointment.......Have you heard anything?"

    You both left that bit in bold out to create another false narrative. The obvious answer to that if he knew nothing about the appointment was "Nope". Guess what, that is exactly what he answered.

    The obvious next action if he knew nothing about the appointment was to ask Coveney about it. Guess what, that is exactly what he did.

    The webs you weave in your conspiracy theories fall away with simple examination using Occam's Razor.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    I'm pretty sure the Merrion knees up was to celebrate her upcoming UN envoy job and she was checking to make sure it was still a go before the event.

    We know both Varadkar and Coveney lied. We know Zappone lobbied and we know Varadkar released texts, likely without the permission of the others to undermine Coveney. Which explains why Flanagan also stuck the knife in.


    #notanormalparty



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Pivot again blanch?

    At least you are now using her actual words.

    She was expecting to be updated by Coveney with further details, as he outlined later to Varadkar.

    His natural reply to that, if he 'knew nothing' would be 'I didn't know you had gotten an appointment, congratulations'. But he didn't say that, he just said 'nope' and the conversation moved on to the 'reminder' about the party, showing they had previous contact in some way, either by text or email or post.

    These are friends having a text session.

    Stop trying to sledgehammer something into this exchange that simply isn't there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    That is quite a delusional post in fairness. It bears no relation to the existing record of what actually happened.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    It marries well with the facts. We know she texted Varadkar about her appointment. We know he was at the event. We know she checked on the status of her appointment before it. All I'm wondering is was it to celebrate the appointment. Hardly bearing no relation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    She was meeting the civil servant to finalise the contact on the Wednesday. Coincidentally she was having a party for 50 people that evening.

    Not connected, no sir! 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    If Leo did not know anything about it, surely he would said What appointment?



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You'd have to assume,the rather large narcisstic side to varadkar,has never fully gotton over coveney wiping floor with him in leadership challenge among ordinary party members


    Kind of hard for FG to expect anyone,only absolute loyalists, to vote for em,sure they dont even like each other



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    For the love of baby jebus...do you accept from that text he knew from that point that there was an envoy job?

    He claimed the first he heard was days later, which was a lie.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The job he asked Coveney about the next day?

    Nah. 😁



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