Joe Rogan downplays the need for a vaccination and gets covid

c.p.w.g.w · 03-09-2021 10:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841237#Comment_117841237

Moving the goalposts...

I said it was disingenuous to call invermectin a de worming medicine thus implying it wasn't for human use...but it clearly is ...I never said it was an effective medicine for covid...my issue is the whole misrepresentation of Ivermectin as only a veterinarian medicine as the stanch is wholly unscientific and wholly inflammatory

03-09-2021 10:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840396#Comment_117840396

Choice is one thing, but that seems to equate to an expectation that you should be free from all criticism for making a moronic choice or just ignoring all facts, or choosing to believe a load of nonsense on some social media platform.

The problem I’m seeing in the USA in particular is one of inability to distinguish between opinion, beliefs and facts. They’re placing the same weight on random people's beliefs and ramblings as scientific facts.

The scientific method, an ability to use a process of logical steps to get beyond those belief biases was basically what took humanity out of the dark ages at various times. When you wander into a society that is based on rumour and superstition, that melts away very fast.

You have a whole lot of people who want to just bury their heads in the sand and become politically annoyed with reality or find some convenient idea that makes it all go away, by just ignoring the rather unpalatable reality that we have to deal with a pandemic.

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 10:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841254#Comment_117841254

Nonsense. It's not remotely disingenuous and you know it. I never said it couldn't be used in humans.

elefant · 03-09-2021 10:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841254#Comment_117841254

That's not disingenuous - it is deworming medicine. It's anti-parasitic. That's obviously in no way like saying the potassium in bananas is the same as the potassium used in potassium cyanide.

Your average American with no health insurance and a low level of education is buying veterinary paste. It needs to be made clear to them that Invermectin is medicine for parasites, such as worms in animals. To do otherwise is disingenuous.

Ush1 · 03-09-2021 10:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840135#Comment_117840135

You don't half love labels.

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 10:36am

I spent a sizeable portion of my childhood working with sheep and remember my parents keeping Ivermectin amongst many things that were necessary to ensure a healthy flock. The overreaction when any sort of American conservative gets any sort of criticism is always weird to see.

Ush1 · 03-09-2021 10:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841380#Comment_117841380

Joe Rogans a conservative? I've never know a conservative to be so fond of psychedelic drugs.

03-09-2021 10:42am

Well, you’ll end up treating your scabies and roundworm problems, but by the looks of it it’ll do very little for COVID and the formulations and doses being sold are intended for topical application to horses in many cases.

Most don’t seem to be comprehending how difficult it is to kill or disrupt a virus using chemical agents. It’s not very likely that some random old drug like this will have any impact at all.

If you look at antiviral agents, they are typically very complex and target a specific protein, enzyme or receptor.

The likelihood of some old, simple medication having any impact on a virus would have worse odds than winning the euromillions three weeks in a row.

There has been progress in managing some of the issues like fibrosis of lungs abs so on, using pretty old fashioned steroids, but those are about managing immune reactions and are only useful in the context of someone who’s been hospitalised.

If something emerges as drug for treating or preventing COVID it’s almost certainly going to have to be something developed specifically for that purpose, designed to target some aspect of the virus, its entry or reproduction mechanisms.

We hopefully will get to that stage, but you’re not going to achieve much by eating horse dewormers, unless you have horse worms.

ohnohedidnt · 03-09-2021 10:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840530#Comment_117840530

It may not be a nice personality trait, but isn't it great that we live in a society where people are free to have varying personality traits, and make personal medical decisions.

There's people who think meat eaters are selfish despicable people, should we all stop eating meat to keep them happy? Of course not, we're free to eat what we want.

If you're not old or obese, the chances of dying from Covid are extremely low (you're more likley to die on the road), why are people trying to force vaccines especially one with a relatively high side effect profile on young healthy people, and not pressure obese people to get in shape if personal outcomes are so important?

The vaccine doesn't stop the spread of the virus, it's main benefit after 6 months is it reduces the severity of the illness. So it's down to personal outcomes, and personal responsibility, just like lots of others things you do that can kill you.

If everybody was healthy there would be less death. Look at the mortality rate in the US, the fattest country in the world. Americans have extremely high rates of all the co-morbidities that increase Covid deaths. And all those co-morbidities were managed by drugs, now they're dying from covid and the solution is .....more drugs?

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 10:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841405#Comment_117841405

If he was a liberal, I doubt there'd be people defending him here.

sydthebeat · 03-09-2021 10:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841415#Comment_117841415

of course its great that we have personal choice and people can choose to be selfish idiots if they want.

its hilarious watching them crying "discrimination" then when the results of those idiotic choices come home to roost for them.

people are free to be idiots, and i will fight tooth and nail for their choice to be so, but they certainly do not have a right to be free of the consequences of those idiotic decisions.

Wibbs · 03-09-2021 11:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841428#Comment_117841428

Nor people condeming him too.

He's the perfect American(tm). A salesman pushing his own product and doing it very well. That product is a middle of the road(for Americans) apparently "sensible"(ditto) position with some woo thrown in to fascinate the unwary, or dopey, over a wide range of water cooler topics with some interesting angles at times. He's clearly gauged the market very well.

Is he a "liberal" or "conservative"? I'd say in general he's whatever gets bums on seats and pays the bills. His personal take? I'd reckon he's a cut price libertarian. That most American of I'm all right Jack politics. He has had Bernie Sanders on and has expressed support for him and his policies more than once and Bernie would be damned near a communist for many Americans in his fanbase, so if he was always playing to the cheap seats he certainly wouldn't have gone down that road. In that he does stand out in the arena of US commentators. The vast majority regardless of "sides" pander to their fanbase and berate the "enemy". That has likely got him more fans though as American commentary can be daftly and cynically partisan.

breezy1985 · 03-09-2021 11:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841405#Comment_117841405

Most of those old UK prog rock bands are grumpy old conservatives now or in Eric Clapton's case always were

ohnohedidnt · 03-09-2021 11:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841444#Comment_117841444

Well like I said before the fading efficacy of the vaccine at reducing transmission makes the restrictions pointless in my opinion. If stopping covid deaths becomes the main goal we could ban old people, fat people and unvaccinated people from public places, but ultimately everybody is getting covid anyway, so we're just spreading it out.

If stopping death in general is the goal we should ban drinking, smoking, driving, swimming, and unhealthy food to start with.

That said, Im not crying discrimination, I think eventually logic will prevail, so I'll just wait it out.

Ush1 · 03-09-2021 11:08am

Some people far too fixated on labels rather than what an individual actually says/does.

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 11:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841490#Comment_117841490

I don't know. There's plenty of snarky remarks about metropolitan elites, conspiracy theories and the like about liberals. To be clear, I've no problem acknowledging my own giving of the short shrift to various "intellectuals" who get promoted around here.

The libertarian thing seems much more aligned with conservative values than anything else. Lower-to-no taxes, everything privatised, restrictions on abortion, bible-thumping and so on. It's not a clean fit of course.

As you've pointed out, he's smart enough not to jump full on into anything he can't easily extricate himself on and there's enough "big government" anxiety about the US to justify his promoting, directly or otherwise Ivermectin. Personally, I find the whole thing a bit disingenuous. If you're going to commit to something, do it and be straight up. There's plenty of UK politicians I dislike but at least I know their stance on things.

Wibbs · 03-09-2021 11:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841526#Comment_117841526

+1 and yet another idiotic thing we've imported from American "thinking". The rest of the western world has largely moved on from this woefully simplistic way of thinking politically, yet for some reason too many Irish people are buying into this bullshíte. That goes for both sides of this retarded 'Murican left/right stuff. The crazy notion that a person can hold conservative views in one area but is otherwise liberal in the rest of their politics or vice versa seems to confuse the hell out of simpletons. And lord knows we have enough simpletons.

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 11:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841561#Comment_117841561

I knew very little about the guy until yesterday. I knew he has an extremely popular podcast, is a bit of a libertarian and is into MMA. None of that's cause for any sort of reaction IMO. It wasn't until he start using his influence to spread nonsense that I felt inclined to respond.

I don't think this is so much American as it is to do with algorithms on social media. You're immediately hit with an echo chamber if you search for anything at all. I googled how to do a certain lift and Youtube immediately decided that I'd be inundated with videos of hunky men. Part of it's definitely American but much of it isn't IMO.

2ndcoming · 03-09-2021 11:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117838860#Comment_117838860

Only wanted to quote the bottom part. What he is representative of is the cult of individualism that is perfect for the hyper capitalist world being forged by all the major tech / social media corporations. Independent thought is only useful if you are qualified to make judgement on something. Knowing that is an independent thought worth retaining, ironically. Giving platforms to others engaged in the same 'promotion of individualism for profit' model doesn't make you fair or clever, it makes you a dishonest a55hole. The ego-driven cult of 'my opinion is worth as much as anyone's, regardless of the topic' is absolutely asinine and flies in the face of all learned human knowledge amassed over thousands of years.

Unless you are an epidemiologist, immunologist or at the very least a medical doctor your opinion is not worth a damn in the treatment / control of a pandemic, just like unless you are an astrophysicist / nuclear engineer your opinion on space travel is not worth a damn or on the other end of the scale unless you are a plumber your opinion on building a waste water system in a house is not worth a damn. These tools have idiots around the world in their millions jacked up on their own egos and inflated sense of self-importance along with all the "be the centre of your own universe" life coaches and influencers and The Secret and all this other bullsh1t peddled to morons who lack the analytical thinking to see them for the grifts they are, and it is having a devastating effect on society in America at least, either through needless death to covid or hyper-partisan politics and 'culture wars'. It's honestly depressing to see and you have to be fearful of the spread.

irishguitarlad · 03-09-2021 12:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841490#Comment_117841490

To be fair he's gone off a cliff since the move to spotify and has started spouting an immense amount of garbage.

c.p.w.g.w · 03-09-2021 12:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841339#Comment_117841339

Good so we agree it has both human and veterinary uses...

Many media sources citing it as a sheep dewormer is wholly disingenuous and paints a picture that it isn't for human consumption...

That is were my issues lie...

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 12:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841764#Comment_117841764

It's not remotely disingenuous. Taking random medicines because some eejit said to do so is the height of stupidity.

growleaves · 03-09-2021 12:35pm

@Blaaz 'The smug satisfaction people on reddit/interwebs take in noted anti-vaxxers/covid deniers dying is a horrible quality'

This doesn't help promote vaccines much imo.

Prominent people have also dropped dead shortly after taking a vaccine, and the media will insist it was 'unrelated' every time.

The overall effect of an untrustworthy official/media culture is more scepticism, for good or ill.

https://eu.cincinnati.com/story/news/2021/09/01/survey-shows-nurses-quit-over-uc-health-covid-19-vaccine-mandate/5680714001/

breezy1985 · 03-09-2021 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841883#Comment_117841883

He is trying to deflect from that obvious truth by focusing in on the fact that it's "not just sheep worm medicine"

03-09-2021 12:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841764#Comment_117841764

Same. I have no skin in this game and found the sudden "You aren't a horse so why would you take this?" memes that flew around the internet pretty absurd. I only looked into Ivermectin for the first time a couple of days ago because of it.

It sounds like Hydroxychloroquine 2.0. That was seen as some alt-right thing, and then in the biggest medical scandal of the entire Covid-19 saga, the world stopped researching it based on 100% false science submitted to the Lancet.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine

Surgisphere, whose employees appear to include a sci-fi writer and adult content model, provided database behind Lancet and New England Journal of Medicine hydroxychloroquine studies

Everyone, including governments, latched onto that research because it perfectly conformed to this notion that alt-right retards were pushing nonsense onto the masses. It was politically easy for the world to say "We told you so." and not even check the data.

The subsequent trials of its effectiveness don't actually here because my point is that we're seeing the same thing happen again with Ivermectin at the early stages. It's a "conspiracy theorist" drug, only used by anti-vaxxers, and only a horse should take it. You are an animal if you see this as an option. Remdesivir was lambasted by the same people because Trump took it. It's like the opposite of being an anti-vaxxer is becoming pro-vaxxer-and-everything-else-is-useless.

Again, I don't specifically care about Ivermectin. I don't even think it's used in the country I live in. But I do care that everything that is not a vaccine is being attacked by politically associating them with the other side. Meanwhile, many of us know people who are alive because of off-label use of things like anti-malarials. We're not convinced by stupid "Are you a horse?" answers to genuine questions.

Vaccines are all that matter, because responsibility can be tied to getting one, and that lets people attack others for being stupid not getting one. That's all a lot of people care about. They don't want Ivermectin to work because it would make them wrong.

Loafing Oaf · 03-09-2021 12:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841912#Comment_117841912

Prominent people have also dropped dead shortly after taking a vaccine

Like who?

Quin_Dub · 03-09-2021 12:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839345#Comment_117839345

That's true but Joe Rogan is a wealthy man , he can afford to access/buy the proper human version of Ivermectin - which likely did sod all for him , but most importantly won't have poisoned him.

But the huge issue in the US is cost and availability of medications for most people. Massive numbers of people have no healthcare and/or the costs of medication through their healthcare provider puts it out of their reach.

So , they hear "Joe Rogan caught COVID and took Ivermectin and now feels great" and because they have no healthcare and/or no money they go and buy the only Ivermectin they can access , which is the Animal version - And that is very very bad.

Oklahoma's ERs are so backed up with people overdosing on ivermectin, gunshot victims are having to wait to be treated

A doctor in rural Oklahoma says the number of people overdosing on horse deworming medication ivermectin is so high that emergency rooms are filled to the brim.

The situation is so dire that even people with gunshot wounds have to wait their turn to get treatment, said Dr. Jason McElyea, an ER physician affiliated with multiple hospitals in Sallisaw, Oklahoma.

Feisar · 03-09-2021 12:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117837296#Comment_117837296

I totally agree with you however it is the ultimate "I told you so" and it is hard for humans to be overly empathetic to the strife of others far away without some sort of connection.

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 12:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841912#Comment_117841912

If the media are untrustworthy, why are you sharing links from the media?

OMM 0000 · 03-09-2021 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840530#Comment_117840530

This is scientifically inaccurate. The reason the virus is mutating and continuing to spread has nothing to do with the unvaccinated. If everyone in the world was vaccinated we'd still be getting variants like delta.

You shouldn't be insulting people when you can't get basic facts right.

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 2:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842617#Comment_117842617

This is nonsense. The virus is an RNA-based virus which typically have higher rates of mutation than DNA-based viruses. The virus can only mutate when it replicates. Since the whole world isn't getting vaccinated any time soon, it's not going to stop replicating but if everyone were to be vaccinated tomorrow it would have a vastly smaller reservoir of areas in which to do so.

breezy1985 · 03-09-2021 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842617#Comment_117842617

Does the vaccine not decrease your viral load making it harder to pass on

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 03-09-2021 2:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841526#Comment_117841526

This. Joe isn't anti vax at all. He encourages anyone that wants a vaccine to get one. His own personal choice was not to get one, that's on him, he's not looking for sympathy or donations, joe will be grand. Yet everyone is here bashing him. You all have your vaccines, why are you all worried about what one man in America does?

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842685#Comment_117842685

I don't believe this to be honest. It's the sort of non-committal defence we see of various libertarian edgy types. What Rogan does by himself is his business but if he's going to use his influence to spread disinformation then he's fair game for criticism.

sydthebeat · 03-09-2021 2:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842617#Comment_117842617

That's an incredibly ignorant and frankly WRONG comment. If everyone in the world was vaccinated then the transmission levels would drop to a level of small enclosed and more importantly manageable outbreaks, which is obviously the point of mass vaccination. Mutations from these will occur much much faster in the unvaccinated

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/unvaccinated-people-are-increasing-the-chances-for-more-coronavirus-variants-heres-how

So how about you actually get some education before spewing rubbish on topics you have no idea about

breezy1985 · 03-09-2021 2:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842711#Comment_117842711

It's purely a business move from him the way he has sat on the fence by being kinda pro vaccination but also not and seems very sketchy about telling if he got it himself. Clearly afraid to lose half his audience whatever answer he gives

03-09-2021 2:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842685#Comment_117842685

It's not just one man in America.

His decision not to get a vaccine affects the society in which he lives.

If Rogan was living in a cabin in the mountains, fair enough, but he doesn't. He lives a very busy life and is in constant contact with people, both acquaintances and strangers.

Real Life · 03-09-2021 3:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841742#Comment_117841742

I used to listen to him a good bit but for me I started to lose interest around the time he started his obsession with Jordan Peterson.

Between that and the airtime he was given Ben Shapiro and then getting Alex Jones back on to spout nonsense, at least he challenged him on things then but still it was becoming more of a sh1tshow by the day. His insistence for getting on people to talk about diets and nutrition who are complete con artists and have no scientific basis for their claims also annoyed me.

Brett Weinstein and the other IDW guys talking nonsense constantly, even Sam Harris has come out with concerns about the nonsense being spread on the show.

I feel like his move to Spotify and subsequently moving to Texas finished him off with me, I couldn't take any more of the nonsense at that point.

OMM 0000 · 03-09-2021 4:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842649#Comment_117842649

That's some gaslighting.

Let's make this really simple:

The virus will or will not continue mutating and spreading when everyone is vaccinated?

OMM 0000 · 03-09-2021 4:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842653#Comment_117842653

It spreads and mutates amongst vaccinated people.

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 4:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843181#Comment_117843181

You're just being disingenuous here.

OMM 0000 · 03-09-2021 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842731#Comment_117842731

Stop spreading misinformation.

The virus is spreading easily amongst the vaccinated (look at Israel and Maldives).

You are lying to readers by trying to pretend if we are all vaccinated the mutations and spreading will end.

Of course, you can't admit you're wrong, so you'll just start gaslighting, moving goalposts, and of course use personal attacks.

OMM 0000 · 03-09-2021 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843191#Comment_117843191

You refuse to answer the question because then you'll have to admit you're wrong.

I remember why you were on my ignore list on the old boards. Going back on it now.

breezy1985 · 03-09-2021 4:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843186#Comment_117843186

But a lot less if less are passing it on.

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 4:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843207#Comment_117843207

I explained myself clearly. You're trying to use a false dichotomy to simplify a complex problem.

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 03-09-2021 5:13pm

It's hilarious how people twist criticising Joe Rogan taking horse de-wormers for covid as some sort of Freedom of Expression issue.

He's an anti-vaxxer tosspot with the biggest podcast in the world. It's because of morons like him and the message they spread that we're so slow to get out of this pandemic and the next strain of covid will be even more contagious and dangerous. I would never wish ill health on anyone but if antivaxxers who catch covid have absolutely no sympathy from me.

sydthebeat · 03-09-2021 5:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843203#Comment_117843203

more lies and ignorance

you said verbatim "the reason the virus is mutating and continuing to spread has nothing to do with the unvaccinated"

that is lies, pure and simple.

Unvaccinated transmission is the singular most significant reason for mutations, and not being vaccinated is the singular most significant reason for transmission.

so stop right now telling lies and spreading misinformation.

JupiterKid · 03-09-2021 5:38pm

Ignorant idiotic imbecile (although a rather dangerous one at that, given the reach of his web-based platforms etc.) who willfully ignores all the best medical advice on Covid gets the virus. It’s really that simple.

Time to move on, nothing to see here folks.

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 03-09-2021 5:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843181#Comment_117843181

What a stupid question.

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 6:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843564#Comment_117843564

Well, I'd ask again but he's clearly so upset that he's had to make a song and dance about putting me on his ignore list.

Joe Rogan downplays the need for a vaccination and gets covid

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