Irish Property Market chat II - read mod note post #1 before posting

DataDude · 31-08-2021 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827596#Comment_117827596

Just looking into this a bit more. If we take third level education to mean "skilled". 2020 the net inward migration of "skilled workers" was +33.6k (56.9 in, 23.3 out), the 2021 net inward migration of skilled workers was +10.1k (42.6 in, 32.5 out). In 2020 the net outward migration of unskilled workers was -2.9k in 2021 its -0.8k.

So over the last year we have had a massive drop off in immigration because we had fewer skilled workers arriving in Ireland than previous years and more skilled workers leaving Ireland than in previous years ("brain drain"). The effect on unskilled workers has been fairly negligible.

I know everyone needs a home and unskilled workers/unemployed people may be more likely to get housing through government routes, but I don't see how a shift away from inward skilled migration would be positive for housing demand? Or was this the point you were already making?

RichardAnd · 31-08-2021 1:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827738#Comment_117827738

Yes...the British taught a certain cohort more than a few lessons.

Hopefully a correct is sooner rather than later, for the longer it goes on, the more people will be sucked into the trap of owning a house bought for more than its worth.

Marius34 · 31-08-2021 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827697#Comment_117827697

Depends what do you mean by the best year. Yes, the best year for lower population increase, but not the best to demands/supply.

By Central Bank low case scenario, where net immigration is 10K, the estimated needs for yearly new supply is 26.5K (34K for immigration of 30K).

For the latest report net immigration was 11.2K, means there should have been over 26.5K new supply, and Ireland had only 20K. Thus the pent-up demands has increased, and housing situation further got worst than previous years.

Timing belt · 31-08-2021 2:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827753#Comment_117827753

immigration of skilled workers into Ireland is good for the economy as they contribute to tax take, spend money in the community etc.. Yes this increases the demand for housing and the majority of these skilled workers jobs will be in the Dublin region so a reduction of immigrants should translate to a decrease in demand in this region. Outside of Dublin will see an increase in demand with returning Irish. My point was that changes in immigration have different impacts in different areas of the housing market.

JimmyVik · 01-09-2021 9:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827905#Comment_117827905

But now you have the REITs and councils buying up any available properties.

So thats fine for renters (there are other issues there) and council tenants, but BAD for people who want to buy.

rob316 · 03-09-2021 9:41am

If they just stopped funds buying up estates, stopped councils from bidding against 1st time buyers and brought the endless amount of social housing boarded up back to a livable condition, that would go along way to making things affordable and ensuring supply.

All this guff yesterday again are demand measures. Its a supply issue and they still don't get it.

Amadan Dubh · 03-09-2021 10:32am

A very interesting article by Ronan Lyons in The Currency today, part of a series of articles he has been writing for them.

He really takes issue with objectors to property developments and emphasises how increased supply is absolutely and inextricably linked to decreases in rents and prices.

Extract below.

https://thecurrency.news/articles/58852/ireland-has-a-new-tool-to-tell-local-authorities-how-many-houses-they-need-and-it-is-going-to-make-things-much-worse/

Adjusting for inflation, what drove housing prices in Ireland between the 1970s and the 2010s, across different market ups and downs. My conclusion at the time (2013) was to highlight the role of credit conditions in driving up prices in the early 2000s. Given how things stand now, it is perhaps equally important to highlight the red bars, the impact of additional supply as it pulls down prices each and every year.

Note the extraordinary impact of all the new homes built between 1995 and 2007. Every single year for 12 years, new supply being built was lowering real housing prices by roughly 5 per cent. Prices rose not because supply has no impact – or indeed because supply increases prices – but because there was not enough new supply to offset other factors pulling prices up, in particular rising incomes in the late 1990s and looser lending in the early 2000s.

Everything else being equal, supply lowered prices by an astonishing 45 per cent between 1995 and 2007. Everything else was not, of course, equal but in certain parts of the country the impact of this extra supply, ultimately driven by tax breaks on build costs, was obvious in 2012 and is still obvious nearly a decade later.

That analysis stops in 2012 and uses capital values but the same result is apparent from an analysis specifically of the rental sector and which continues to 2020: controlling for demand, more supply lowers rents. Intricate quantitative analysis is necessary to make these causal conclusions but can put some readers off.

Fortunately, the same point can easily be shown with a simple scatterplot of rental supply in Dublin and subsequent changes in rents. This is shown below, and the pattern is striking: an additional 1,000 rental homes on the market typically push rents down by 5 per cent.

lossless · 03-09-2021 3:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841078#Comment_117841078

If a million new houses appeared overnight, already replete with a million new occupants, by how much has supply increased?

This "build more" mantra, taken as it is in complete isolation of all other pertinent, glaring factors, has had it's day, nee years, in the sun.

Coincidentally I just picked up a broadcast from the future, it's now the year of our Lord 2198, and people are talking about fixing the housing crisis in Ireland by building more homes. Sinn Gael says so. Weird!

03-09-2021 3:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842715#Comment_117842715

where do the million new occupants come from?

lossless · 03-09-2021 3:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842726#Comment_117842726

...and other jokes to win friends".

Seriously though, I couldn't tell you. I think they spontaneously exist out of the grass. If there was only a central repository of information on such things, even better if you could overlay such non-existent information over government promises through the years. It would potentially be possible to come to logical, reasonable conclusions as to how a housing crisis goes on, and on, and on, and on.

timmyntc · 03-09-2021 3:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842783#Comment_117842783

Are you implying building more houses attracts net more people than the houses could be filled with?

In that case we should just destroy houses instead, surely that will make things better if building more wont!

lossless · 03-09-2021 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842834#Comment_117842834

Yes, I am suggesting that the solution to the housing "crisis" is to destroy homes. An accurate and thoughtful interpretation, thank you.

Timing belt · 03-09-2021 4:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842715#Comment_117842715

There may have been a mantra of build more but that’s all it was as it didn’t translate to new properties actually being built.

timmyntc · 03-09-2021 4:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842877#Comment_117842877

You were implying that there is no net benefit to building more homes as the labour market growth required to build them ends up swallowing any gain in dwellings, because the people who built them need to live somewhere.

This is totally wrong - and following that logic, you might as well destroy homes as it would go as much good for prices as building them

lossless · 03-09-2021 4:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842895#Comment_117842895

Saying "that's totally wrong" with nowt back up is like screaming hallelujah at a hedgehog, it's confusing, less amusing and ultimately pointless.

I suggest you look at the new housing plan (it's not new) and it's projected numbers of new housing, then look at the population policies and projections of the same government, over the exact same time period, and see if you notice something "peculiarly reminiscent" between the two as you go back and forth.

Amadan Dubh · 03-09-2021 6:51pm

Considering half our immigration is from people who are from non-EU countries, it is certainly a possibility that we have more freedom to temper the numbers arriving on our shores. It would at least suppress some of the future demand for housing and give existing supply a chance to ramp up.

lossless · 03-09-2021 7:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843528#Comment_117843528

Just taking that prong of the trident alone, it is quite exemplary in showcasing the "planning" of these governments.

They have reams of information available, thousands of people producing reports left and right, consultations on the ready, expertise on call, minutiae of projections, predictions, presentations. All happening every day of the week.

So, when someone suggested, for the 10,000th time that "pErHapS ReDuCinG ExTRa PeOPLe wOulD hAVe a SigNifiCanT iMpacT on HoMe proVisIoN", and, for the 10,000th time they were told to shut their mouth...

something that requires no effort, no construction, no planning, no disputes, no legal fees, no complications. A decision that requires them to only NOT do something...

that tells you everything about their commitment to maintaining the housing crisis.

03-09-2021 7:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843528#Comment_117843528

Do you have links to these statistics?

lossless · 03-09-2021 7:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843599#Comment_117843599

youll find quite a bit of information there, fill your cup. Edit, I tried to link to cso, but I'm not allowed. You'll find it if you go looking.

For example, unless I read it too quickly, 23k of the 29k net migration last year, during a global pandemic, were neither from EU27, UK, America Canada or Australia.

That's 79%.

03-09-2021 7:34pm

You are claiming that 23,000 immigrants into Ireland last year were from non EU countries, the UK, America or Australia?

Is that what you're saying?

lossless · 03-09-2021 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843649#Comment_117843649

No, that's not what I am saying, that is what the CSO has recorded. Seeing as I can't link to it, I'll transcribe...

Net migration 2020

5.3k UK

1.6k Eu14 excluding Ireland

Minus 0.4k EU15 to EU27

0.2k Australia

Minus 0.1k Canada

Minus 0.5k USA

22.7k rest of world

Total migration of 29k

In other words, 23k, 79% of all extra people who moved into Ireland last year were from "rest of the world". So much for "but the EU freedom of movement" excuse.

Oh and about 20 odd thousand dwelling units were built in the same year. Curious in it's convenience, just like their "new housing plan".

03-09-2021 8:03pm

So 23,000 people moved to Ireland in 2020? From outside the EU?

lossless · 03-09-2021 8:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843748#Comment_117843748

No. 29k moved to Ireland in total, Net. That means extra people.

23k of those 29k were NOT from the Eu27, they were also NOT from USA, nor Australia, nor UK, nor Canada.

Those 23k were from "rest of the world".

How many different ways do you want me to answer the same question?

03-09-2021 8:39pm

That's exactly what I said? I'm not asking you to answer the same question.

I find it very hard to believe.

Shelga · 03-09-2021 8:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827079#Comment_117827079

Hi RichardAnd, just wanted to say I agree with everything you say here. I’m also 34 and feel the same. I’ve just been outbid yet again on another house, and I don’t know how much more of this process I can take, mentally. It’s soul-destroying. Lately when I’m on endless Teams call all day I find myself thinking- what’s the point? Why am I doing this? All of the other people on the call in their 40s and 50s have their own homes, partners, kids. I’m sitting in my childhood bedroom with no sign of anything changing.

I feel like a failure even though I know it’s not me. How are you meant to date when you’re living at home for years on end and spending all of your spare time looking at dregs on Daft.

I’m just so f*cking sick of it. Wish I had never come home from England tbh.

RichardAnd · 03-09-2021 9:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843920#Comment_117843920

Hi Shelga,

Thank you for the personalised reply. It sounds like we very much have the same situation, right down to the accursed MS Teams and the childhood bedroom.

I'm living with my mom at the moment. I'm glad to be able to look after her as she gets older as my dad left her, but at the same time, I am poignantly aware that my own time is ticking away and producing little; just like the savings that I have accumulated. The very idea of dating doesn't even enter my mind and as for a family, why on earth bring a child into a world where I see little future for them?

If there is one thing that provide a modicum of comfort it is that I at least now know that the game is rigged.

Heraclius · 03-09-2021 9:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843859#Comment_117843859

Based on what I can see on the CSO website 65,000 people immigrated to Ireland in the year to April 2021 of whom 30,000 were Irish nationals, 14,000 were in the non-irish, non UK, non-EU category. I think 56,000 left. I'm a bit confused about this 79% figure.

lossless · 03-09-2021 9:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843859#Comment_117843859

Well I'm glad you follow, I was misconstruing your intent.

About the incredulity you feel, and no doubt others are of equal skepticism at the outrageous brazenness of it all, you need to direct that emotion and energy toward the perpetrators of this scam.

They are getting away with it by separating facts, and then relying upon the general population to not have the wherewithal to join the dots.

They are not going to keep getting away with this, surely the sun is setting on this pretence of housing "crisis" versus the reality of artificial design.

lossless · 03-09-2021 9:57pm

To shelga and richardand above....

This is the truth of the situation, the personal hardships and consequences that simply cannot be captured in statistics or reports. The fallout of this circus show that's enriching a few sneaking rats, while large swathes of the country are being silently destroyed under false pretence.

Im aware of many similar stories.

Watch the numbers, follow the money, and then direct that resultant anger in constructive ways. At the very least, question the next politician you come across on the numbers that you'll know so well. See how well they know them. See what excuses or admittances they give.

If you're waiting for the profiteers to end the gravy train of their own accord, you'll never not be waiting.

03-09-2021 10:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117844147#Comment_117844147

What scam?

mcsean2163 · 03-09-2021 10:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843997#Comment_117843997

I hope I'm not out of line but maybe you both should go on a date😘

If you hit it off you might have enough for a deposit 😉

mcsean2163 · 03-09-2021 10:23pm

Property for sale in Ireland - 12318 Results

Myhome supply seems to be trending upwards as propqueries suggested. I wonder how many sellers build for all will flush out?

Maybe not that many...

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/government-s-plan-won-t-fix-our-housing-problem-1.4663495?

RichardAnd · 03-09-2021 10:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117844345#Comment_117844345

Haha playing the match maker! My inbox is always open for PMs :D

Amadan Dubh · 04-09-2021 1:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117844216#Comment_117844216

The whole economic system and property market by extension needs a constant flow of new people into the system to push more wealth up the pyramid. Our economy and property market depends on population growth, like a pyramid scheme! That and the metrics used to tell people the last ten years have been prosperous (ie GDP and high house prices), yet it seems to a lot of people that their real life does not reflect what they are being told - that is the scam.

People are finding that actually their own net cash after housing costs and other expenses are paid is getting smaller each year in a large way due to the massive inflation in the housing market but the government keep saying how great everything is. With the H4A plan, it very much comes across as gaslighting to be honest and one of the big holes in it is how 33000 homes per year is in any way adequate based on the population growth figures alone.

Amadan Dubh · 04-09-2021 1:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843599#Comment_117843599

Going off the 2018 and 2019 figures given the pandemic disruption in 2020.

30,600 non - Irish nationals from outside the EU came to Ireland in the year April 2018 to April 2019 while 11,200 in that demographic emigrated during the same period.

I just question whether it is sustainable to have these levels of immigration until housing supply picks up and with non-EU people we have a higher chance of controlling it without EU free movement rules.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2019/

04-09-2021 8:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117844952#Comment_117844952

Yes, before the pandemic.

I just find it hard to believe that over 23,000 'other' immigrants came to Ireland in 2020. How many visas were issued, and what type of visas?

Also, I don't believe the immigration of the last few years will continue. Things have changed, we haven't seen the affects on the economy yet imo.

wassie · 04-09-2021 8:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843920#Comment_117843920

Exactly this is the real effect of the housing crisis. It takes its toll personally on those who contribute most to society through hard work. I feel your pain and while it does disproportionately affect a younger cohort, it is an inter-generational issue none the less.

Their is no shortage of couples in their 40s with kids in the same boat who equally have continual worries at not being able to buy a house. Many of these have returned home from overseas to be with family. They now find themselves questioning what they have done, leaving places like Australia & Canada where they had great quality of life to a situation of stress and no end in sight. Their situations are precarious as they are at the mercy of not having security of tenure in their overpriced rentals, facing the stress of the very real prospect of having to pull kids out of schools (again) in order to house them by way of forced relocation should their landlords decide to sell up. That stuff keeps you up at night.

I know of some in their 50's who having done it tough working their way out of lost fortunes from the last recession, only to get back on their feet and be priced out of the market for the last few years and very worried at how they are going to live out their retirement.

drogon. · 04-09-2021 10:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117845203#Comment_117845203

I would say a vast majority could easily be foreign students - It doesn't give the full story, but I suspect based on the following, it could be that students X students left. while Y students arrived and Z students ended up getting a job and decided to stay ?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40370168.html

An estimated 35,000 non-Irish nationals arrived to live here during the period, and 31,200 non-Irish nationals emigrated, to give a positive net migration among non-Irish nationals of 3,900 – down a staggering 28,300, or 86.2%, on the previous year.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/government-to-seek-revival-of-2-5bn-international-student-sector-1.4503824

In 2019, 44,000 international students studied in Ireland, either as undergraduates or postgraduates, providing substantial financial injections to universities and colleges

lossless · 04-09-2021 10:46am

Regardless of who or where extra people are coming from, it is straight up duplicity to state

1) we are tackling the housing crisis by building x amount of homes

While simultaneously

2) we are also allowing a practically equal amount of people to move here

It therefore doesn't increase the housing supply and it won't lower prices. It maintains the "crisis".

They are not idiots. They have all the information to hand and have made conscious, well-informed decisions to continue selling this duplicity. This is the driving force of the "crisis" and has been for years, and they have stated unequivocally that they intend to maintain this nonsense for at least the next decade and beyond.

And why? Well, there's a shed load of money to be had.

This doesn't get any easier to understand. Build 'em, fill 'em, rob 'em.

Just watch how they meet their targets on net migration every year without fail, while every year they will build less housing without fail.

Sierra Oscar · 04-09-2021 11:11am

I've noticed a trend for some new build developments in Dublin lately whereby the developers are reluctant to sell off the plans. Instead they are building the units and opting to sell upon completion. Looks like they are banking on sizeable price increases in the next 12 - 18 months and want to cash in.

This is in developments where previous phases were all sold off plan before construction began.

drogon. · 04-09-2021 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117845598#Comment_117845598

Close to where I live, about 100 apartments where built (and later acquired by a REI) and put on the market for rent at crazy prices. Been over 6 months since they were completed and on the market and you can clearly tell only a hand full of people have moved into the place.

My gut also tells me they are hoarding rental units rather than reducing rental prices, assuming once rent falls, they can't increase the price quickly due to RPZ in place.

Although I don't see a crash in the future, the market will have to eventually correct itself as I believe rental prices are as high as they are because they are kept that way artificially.

I also do believe the rental market is linked with the property market, if people can't afford rent they will try and get on the property market at any cost as it will most likely be cheaper to pay a mortgage than rent.

Greed will be the final downfall, same as the last time !

cnocbui · 04-09-2021 2:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117844216#Comment_117844216

Perhaps he/she thinks they are adjusting the immigration tap to ensure the cup is always full, at the behest of their real constituency, large foreign corporations and REITs, in order to prop up the value of their assets and their aspirational rents? I certainly think the foreign corporation cargo cultism practiced in this country since the 90's would suggest that such a view may not be entirely baseless. You could even make a case for the allowance and encouragement of regional councils in promulgating and maintaining their 'not if you are not from around here, you don't' planning restriction filters (something the EU should curtail), which also might be serving to keep the pressure on the Dublin housing market as it restricts the alternatives.

Only net immigration/emigration stats are really meaningful.

lossless · 04-09-2021 2:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117846068#Comment_117846068

You're correct, that is absolutely what I interpret from government statistics.

As said above, in 2020 there were approximately 20,000 housing units built.

Also in 2020 there was a NET addition of 29k extra people through migration. 6k of those were from the combined eu27, Canada, USA, UK and Australia. The other 23k were from "rest of world". During a pandemic, mind.

Here are the complicated mathematics of that...20k housing + 29k people = fixing the housing crisis...according to government maths, that is.

The governments "new housing plan" proposes 300k new builds by 2030.

The government's migration targets/projections (same thing) are that by 2030 they will accommodate a net gain of approximately 360k

So, 300k housing units + 360k net migrants = a piss take in terms of solving the housing crisis.

And what are the odds that both 1) they will not reach the housing goal and 2) the migration numbers will be higher?

This is a complete and utter shambles, it's shocking how poorly disguised it all is. The only thing more shocking is that many people seem completely oblivious to it. People need to start talking in real life about this, to challenge it, because we are being taken for a ride.

Eclectic Econometrics · 04-09-2021 3:24pm

A couple of points on the immigration issue.

First of all I do believe that immigration is having an effect on house prices. If net 50,000 people a year were leaving the country then in all likelihood prices would dropping. I say in all likelihood because deaths, marriages, divorces and children coming of adult age also have to be taken into consideration with the population figures, not just immigration. But for the sake of argument we say all things being equal etc.

You cannot fully stop non-EU as a percentage of those no-EU are spouses of EU citizens. A French man married to a Mongolian woman moves to Ireland, or whatever floats your boat. The spouse will have equivalent EU rights.

Non-EU people are not rocking up to Ireland and getting mortgages and buying new builds. They have to establish themselves in the country before a bank will provide them funds. I am guessing it is the same for EU people too, I do not think there is a EU wide credit score system being used here, correct me if I am wrong as I do not know.

There was a "20,000 people 20,000 new homes" suggestion made earlier in the thread. Again I agree with the overall point but it definitely isn't this simplistic. I know of 3 non-EU households near me. Two of the residences have 5 women a piece within them (they're both overcrowded). The places are lived in by women from India and the Philippines who are all nurses. The other place is a guy who lives opposite me and supports his 3 children and stay at home wife. That's 5 people per dwelling. Now, this is obviously anecdotal. However, if I were to guestimate how many houses the 20,000 people took up it would be a lot likelier to be closer to 5,000 than 20,000. With the Irish that came home in the pandemic I would estimate that a very large number of those literally went home, to their parents, as opposed to came back to rent or buy straight away, which they may end up doing after a while.

The final point I want to make is that, going back to the three households near me, these people are all making a positive contribution. The nurses are obviously doing an important job. The guy opposite me is contributing a disproportionate amount of tax than the average Joe. His cost of living, housing, food, kids etc., without any car/restaurant/holiday is going to be 60k a year easy. So he is earning a healthy six figures and the paying the tax that comes with that. I just make this point because more often than not, especially on this site, foreigners are depicted badly.

If I was going to stop non-EU people coming here, to improve housing availability, I would probably first start with stopping non-EU people who have absolutely no intention of living here from buying houses.

lossless · 04-09-2021 3:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117846323#Comment_117846323

Those numbers I have quoted are net gains, everything taken into account already.

That is correct about 1 housing unit not necessarily being equal to 1 new arrival. That information doesn't exist. However, I would find it entirely implausible to suggest that the ratio is a high as 1:4. The majority of new developments are apartments, and increasingly so year upon year, 56% last year, iirc. That immediately reduces the potential occupancy down to a likely majority of 1:2, and decreasing over time.

The overall point remains that the vast majority of housing both built and proposed will be soaked up the second they appear on paper. As it stands, right this very second, the new housing plan is already rendered negligible.

As you say, if 360k people permanently left this country tomorrow, not to be replaced, the impact on the house prices and rent prices would be apparent within days. So it's only logical to assume the addition of 360k people NET will have the same effect.

As for whether anyone is contributing economically or not, we have a housing crisis. We do not have an economic crisis, we do not have a labour crisis.

Eclectic Econometrics · 04-09-2021 4:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117846370#Comment_117846370

Trust me when I tell you I agree with the overall point you are making. When I said if X amount left I assumed you would take it from that I also assume the opposite to be true.

I still think you are off with the number of houses non-EU people are taking up. The apartments example is not taking into consideration how other nationalities feel about apartment living. From what I gather from here, I am not Irish, the mindset is very much house with garden. But, in all other countries I have lived people are far more comfortable having 2 adults and a child, even two, in a two bed apartment, to use your example. How likely is it a guy on Deliveroo wages is in an apartment as opposed to a house share? etc.

As for your last point, the example I gave specifically mentioned nurses. You can find numerous articles online taking about the shortage of nurses in Ireland. So my point is, we can say that stopping non-EU people settling here would have an effect on house prices, I agree with you 100%, but also let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

mariaalice · 04-09-2021 10:12pm

Some eastern europens lived beside me about 15 years ago, a normal 3-bed semi it has grandparents in a one-bedroom, son and daughter in law in another bedroom and 18 years old grandson in another all worked, all of their friends live in a similar way. Immigration is at best a small issue in the housing issue.

Timing belt · 05-09-2021 12:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117844952#Comment_117844952

Like with all things there needs to be a balance... there are genuine skills shortages in the country that need to be filled such as nurses, Doctors etc.

Immigration is required in Ireland if we are to be a central hub for all the tech companies etc. These immigrants pay taxes and yes they will need to be housed. Rather than blame the whole housing crisis on them maybe we should look to them to help resolve the crisis and help build the houses that should have been built over the past 5 years.

Blaming immigrants for the housing situation is a joke.... Is it their fault that not enough properties have been built... and the ones that have been built have been gobbled up by investors to rent out at crazy prices. Are they the ones objecting to building plans?

Yes they increase demand on housing but lets not forget that without them their would be a lot of people in Ireland without jobs as companies would look to locate somewhere else where they could find the required skills.

Just to be clear I am not saying we should have an open door to all immigrants but we need a certain amount of immigration of skilled labour to keep the economy growing.