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Abortion in America

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  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Imagine setting up a law so restrictive on what is a traumatic experience for a woman, and then setting it up in a way that members of the public are encouraged to turn on each other.

    That is truly awful.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's horrendous. Pregnancy and birth can be traumatising in and of themselves, let alone for a girl or woman who has been raped. 😔



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    Oh but it's only been about 50 odd years. If they leave it for another 50, who knows!?!?



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,334 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH




  • Registered Users Posts: 36,155 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Christians are of the thought '' why would you need an abortion if you lived in a moral way''

    It's all about religion, like every war, every shooting, every election



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,830 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    To be honest I believe quite a lot of Christians have twisted their belief structure into something they can use to feel morally superior over others.

    I attend church or service therfore I am better than those who do not.

    Quite a lot of Christians would in my experience have very limited understanding of the bible and can easily be manipulated by someone professing greater knowledge of Scripture. Especially where it goes along with them gaining a sense of that moral superiority over others.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,583 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    GoDaddy.com's told the Texas rat-them-out site to bugger off. No doubt they'll land somewhere. Somewhere...without good security I hope. And extremely high prices for low bandwidth!


    https://gadgets.ndtv.com/internet/news/godaddy-texas-anti-abortion-tip-website-right-to-life-back-up-2529464



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,639 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    The 'whistleblower' website is being swamped with fake reports, Shrek memes, and porn.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/texas-abortion-prolifewhistleblower-tiktok-reddit-b1913656.html



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    That pro life group is genuinely evil.

    Evil f*cking bastards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,427 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The father.

    This law in Texas would not look out of place in the prologue to The Handmaiden’s Tail

    A man gets a woman pregnant and threatens to sue her and everyone who helps her to get an abortion.

    America is going backwards under this Supreme Court. The question is how far will it slide



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,249 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Lyft And Uber Offer To Pay Legal Fees For Drivers Sued Under Texas Abortion Law (forbes.com)

    In another fine example of just how insane this new law is, even a taxi driver can be sued if they bring a pregnant woman to a clinic for an abortion. This is absolute madness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,427 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Its snowballing already. Biden will have to expand the Supreme Court to protect the US constitution from being walked back to the Middle Ages. Separation of church and state is next on the agenda



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,572 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Can he do that? And if he does could a successor Republican president jack it up again?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,685 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Let there be no confusion as to my view on this or people who support such disconnected Conservative ideals and the people who behave like this while denouncing anyone interested in the common good as being radical socialists.

    Fcuk each and every last one of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,427 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Yes. Biden can expand the supreme court and nominate as many judges as he likes, And, yes, his successor can do the same, so it could end up being a tit for tat with every time an administration changes hands, the supreme court gets bigger.

    The problem is supreme court nominations need senate approval so only presidents that control the senate could pump the SC full of judges and successfully fill those seats.

    What the SCOTUS currently have done, is basically tear up the US constitution. Their decision to allow a blatantly unconstitutional law to remain in force pending SCOTUS review of said blatantly unconstitutional law, is akin to saying that states do not have to apply the US constitution when drafting laws. It's a hugely dangerous precedent.

    Biden may have no choice but to take the 'Nuclear option' to rebalance the supreme court.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,771 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Texas is an incredibly backward, bigoted state populated by ignorant rednecks and I look forward to when this completely mean-spirited and anti-women law is forcibly revoked via the US Supreme Court, whenever that may be.

    Since the Roe vs Wade ruling in 1973 abortion and reproductive rights for women have been a constant battleground in America

    Texas is one of the most backward US states on all measures of social well-being - minority rights, employee protections, environmental protection, health indicators, infant mortality, inequality, animal welfare, town planning etc. - the list just goes on and on.

    It's also a very salutary reminder that social progress can be reversed, no progress should be taken for granted as just as rights for women can be fought for and won, they can also be taken away by religious nutjobs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,427 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Abortion is the canary in the coal mine for this SCOTUS. The fact that they let this ridiculous law stand means they will likely allow all kinds of other shenanigans from republican controlled states, voter suppression will be green lighted by this SCOTUS giving the next election to the republicans, and then it’s a downward spiral from there

    Biden has no choice if he cares about democracy. He has to pull the trigger



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As toxic and noxious as American politics can be and I completely understand that we sometimes spend far too much time focused on crazy stuff going on over there, but I think this does have some relevance in Ireland, largely because they are headed to where we were not very many years ago. So, I think we do have a unique perspective on it by most Western European standards.

    From what I can see a large part of the USA is rapidly regressing, across a whole load of issues, to some bygone era and is becoming extremely conservative and religious in formation of public policy, much like what you're seeing in parts of Latin America and Eastern Europe.

    It's worrying to see trends in the US that are anti-democratic, or delegitimising democratic processes. You've widespread acceptance of gerrymandering and using loopholes and basically abuse of process to force various things through on narrow technical regulation, rather than broad consensus and you've a former president and a large part of the population that does not accept the legitimacy of a election. It's not because of anything having happened, but rather that they just don't like the result.

    The US is a full presidential democracy and it's mirrored at state level with the gubernatorial system, and many of its structures haven't really changed all that much since the 1700s. So, it's one of the oldest democratic systems in the world, but that does not imply it's the most functional. From what I can see the US is looking more and more like unstable full presidential democracies in Latin America and Africa, where there's an acceptance of strongman leadership and all that goes with it. You're seeing the same in parts of Eastern Europe too, notably Russia which is kind of not unexpected given it has very little real democratic history, but within the EU, Hungary in particular and Poland are sliding in the same direction.

    I think just ignoring what's going on the US is not really an option as it's somewhere that has a lot of relevance here, but what we should probably avoid doing is taking elements of crazy American politics and assuming they apply here, and you see a lot of that in online bubbles.

    I could see several American states sliding back to some kind of evangelical version of where we were in the 1960s/70s, applying hardcore religious morality to public policy, but it's actually worse in many ways as they are doing that within a context of the undermining of acceptance of democratic rule too. So it's looking maybe more like it's heading towards Spain in the 1960s.

    This kind of thing is also likely to destabilise the US. It's not as if there's a broad universal acceptance of the direction that they're going, rather the concept of finding consensus is gone and it's heading for at the very least a culture war.

    Texas is now headed for a situation where they will have two sides pitched against each other, unable to agree on anything and ultimately that just will lead to a state that becomes ungovernable. You can see what happens when a society gets polarised on issues by just looking to Stormont and how many times that assembly has collapsed.

    I mean where is the US headed? More government shut downs, an ineffective legislature, state governments at logger heads with themselves, politicised courts? Very poor quality electoral candidates, anyone sensible, pragmatic, moderate or bipartisan is quickly run out of office leaving a vacuum being filled by zealots, religious extremists, conspiracy theorists, showmen and power hungry sociopaths that are increasingly dominating politics and all that leads, understandably towards protests, riots and growing disaffection with democracy ...

    It's not a pretty picture.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,770 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Good news for the unborn all the same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,584 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Terrible news for rape victims, women in abusive relationships or 13 year old girls who are victims of incest though.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,572 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    What about holding a referendum to enshrine something like Roe v Wade in the Constitution?



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Because abortion is something that does not belong in the constitution.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭G_R


    Also, the US constitution cannot be changed by a referendum.

    It needs to be passed by a 2/3 majority in the House and the Senate, and then needs to be ratified by the state governments of 3/4 of the states.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,830 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,458 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Roe vs Wade is a very dubious decision anyway. It's based on privacy but who has privacy anyway? The US government is all over your emails, texts and social media. The Police can enter your house at any time based on a warrant based on little or no evidence, see Breona Taylor.

    Abortion isn't mentioned in the constitution and the response of that Supreme Court should have been to say it wasn't a court competency. Over time the states would have come into line.

    Edit:

    Of course there being nothing in the constitution about abortion a federal law could probably have been passed. Maybe infringing on "state's rights" but that phrase is not in good odour.



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This is all a bit fantastical. It's likely that Texas will go blue sometime soon. Within the next few generations. The high tide of evangelicalism is dead. Atheism is increasing, protestantism is falling, and a milder South American catholicism is unlikely to be as fanatical.

    Of course there are other reasons to fear the US as it transitions, the divide is very real, but both sides are nuts.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In what way?

    The recent history has been multiple government shutdowns over petty issues, that literally paralysed the federal government during the Obama administration. Then you'd Donald Trump as president which was one hell of a bizarre few years.

    Texas has already now passed these laws, other southern states are already well on their way to doing similar.

    The US Supreme Court is absolutely a political tool. There's nothing independent about it and they're not even pretending there is. They just stuff it to suit their agenda.

    Meanwhile you've a significant chunk of one of the two political parties who simply do not accept the outcome of a democratic election and are coming up with every conspiracy theory in the book to try to overturn it months after the president has been inaugurated.

    You've already had vicious riots on the streets. You've also had the Capital, the federal legislature, stormed by a mob.

    Not really sure how any of what I said is 'a bit fantastical'. It's already happening and it's far from how a normal, stable democracy behaves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,685 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Can you expand a bit on the both sides are nuts? I'm not naive enough to think that everything within the party my values would more closely be aligned with but I think the 'both sides' thing doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.

    Aside from the topic which this thread is about and the harm that that will do to people, they offer as a counter point continued efforts to reduce any form of government supported healthcare. I've already pointed out the hyopcrisy of people, on virtually the same day, arguing that bodily autonomy is a valid argument to prevent mask mandates, and that women cannot have bodily autonomy to terminate a pregnancy should they wish to do so.

    Look at what the GOP have put their name to over just the last couple of years. Downplaying Covid, downplaying an attempted insurrection, attempting to undermine a valid election, cowtowing to an obviously incompetent President. At a state level they have introduced a raft of legislation to make it more difficult for some people to vote. They have not only been poor on Covid, they have introduced legislation preventing conscientious school boards from attempting to protect their staff and students.

    Ted Cruz ran to Cancun when Texas had a snowstorm, AOC collected $5M for Texas support efforts. Mo Brooks is trying to inhibit an investigation in to the attempted insurrection, Cori Bush camped out to draw attention to, and build support for extending the eviction moratorium, which protected tenants from being evicted at this difficult time. (That extension was granted, but has sense been overruled.) Kelly Loeffler attended a Covid briefing in early 2020 and immediately sold millions in stock.

    Kevin McCarthy was one of the first significant people to visit Trump in Mar-A-Lago, Bernie Sanders is visiting GOP areas, trying to build support for a 3.5T reconciliation Bill which among other things will expand healthcare.

    Madison Cawthorn advocated violence as a response to Republicans losing further elections, Marjorie Taylor-Greene, downplayed the Holocaust, Lauren Boebert ranted against Government financial aid at CPAC, the 4 counties in her state with highest unemployment are all in her district.

    Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnel both blamed Trump for the events of Jan 6th, neither of them voted to impeach him.

    McConnell refused to let Obama nominate someone to the Supreme Court for the entirety of the last year of his Presidency, saying that it couldn't be done because of the upcoming election, he then allowed Amy Coney Barrett to be nominated and approved within 6 weeks of the Election at the end of Trumps term. The GOP held 11 enquiries in to Benghazi, they refused to support a full enquiry in to the insurrection on Jan 6th. In that insurrection, some Democrat members, were afraid of their lives, some GOP members were communicating directly with the President or were sending coded messages revealing the location of prominent Democrats.

    No Republican, House or Senate voted for the pandemic relief bill, when it was passed, several of them campaigned on the back of having secured funding for their districts.

    When the Covid vaccine was released, AOC brought a vaccine bus around her district which people could visit to get the vaccine, half the GOP members in the House refuse to say whether or not they themselves have been vaccinated. Last week, as New York suffered from Hurricane Ida, AOC's team texted people in their district asking 'Are you ok, do you need anything and saying if people indicated they needed assistance by responding to the text, someone would then get in touch directly. She also once again advocated for her Green New Deal being an effort to help limit/prevent the escalation of such events, the GOP refuse to acknowledge a link between current economy practices and climate change.

    The 3 most indicted Presidents in history are Trump, Nixon and Reagan with 215, 76 and 26 indictments respectively associated with their administration. Three least indicted; Clinton, Carter and Obama with 2, 1 and 0 indictments respectively. Notice any correlation here with the parties both groups were members of?

    Trump negotiated with the Taliban, freed 5000 of its soldiers and excluded the Afghan government from talks ahead of the planned departure of the US from the country. Biden actually went ahead and took the US out of there knowing that he was going to get massive stick for doing so. Trump literally refused to take responsibility for the Covid response, Biden said full responsibility for how the US ended up leaving Afghanistan was his, and his alone.

    As I said, I know that the Dem's are far from perfect, and Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin are wolves in sheeps clothing. But to say that both sides are equally nuts but on opposite sides of the political spectrum is like saying that flat earthers and astrophysicists are comparable. It doesn't hold any water. At all.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,413 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    It is?

    So a slew of new laws just entered force this week, varying from the budget to guns, the abortion one is just one of over 650. Some here may dislike the gun laws, but may be interested in the increase in access for medical marijuana. They may dislike the $1bn for border security, but approve of the $8bn on mental health and addiction issues. The new state budget has overall decreased over the previous one, but education funding has increased. There is an increase in eligibility for State support for ovarian cancer screening and mammograms, as against a requirement to play the national anthem at certain sports events. Veterans get enhanced education benefits, but sexual assault victims now must be provided advocates during the investigation process (and the reporting time has been extended). It is now illegal to block an emergency vehicle, and there is now a mechanism for tracking mail-in ballots. We can now buy beer on Sunday mornings, and there is now immunity to prosecution for drug-related offenses for someone calls for help for someone overdosing. Police bodycams now may no longer be switched off during investigations, and it is now possible to obtain emergency insulin from a pharmacist without a doctor's authorization. And so on. The whole lot is here, let me know how many of them you object to as 'backward and bigoted'.

    As for some of the specific accusations, CDC says the infant mortality rate is smack in the middle of the US at 22nd best, just worse than Arizona and better than Illinois. According to US News, Racial inequality is indeed high (45th), though gender is pretty much right in the middle (27th), and it's near the top at disability equality (8th. All at same link). The Animal Legal Defense Fund rates Texas as a "Top Tier" state for animal protection, at 11 of 50. When it comes to 'healthiest states', Texas is again in the middle at 25 according to Becker's Hospital Review, which, in fairness, is recent: it was 34th two years ago, and 39th three years ago so apparently it's trending in the right direction. I'm not sure what the 'town planning' criterion relates to, though I will note from observation that there's a hell of a lot more infrastructure improvement happening here in Texas than there was in California when I left three years ago.

    What surprised us when we moved here, though, was just how overall generous and supportive folks seem to be. Private organisations, particularly faith-based ones, have provided all sorts of benefits to our kid from swimming lessons through zoo membership. We're not even part of their organisations, it is merely sufficient that we live in their neighborhood. These were not benefits available to us in California as such organisations aren't part of the local fabric.

    OK, the abortion thing is very noticeable and controversial. It's not the only thing in Texas, though. It's a damned good place to live, there's a reason this is the most popular destination for Californians leaving the State.



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