Irish schools being sent ideological gender identity "pledge packs"

Nothing wrong with promoting Diversity and Tolerance but the whole pledge thing seems very over the top.

Just reminds of those overly nationalist US 'educational' things from the cold war.

There are ways to explain, promote and understand these complex issues as part of a wider curriculum in SPHE or equivalent.

You do understand why people get worked up about it because you’re able to determine that someone gets worked up about it when people don’t use their preferred pronouns.

For yourself it’s a small concession, but you understand it’s a big enough deal to other people that you’ll use their preferred pronouns, whereas for other people, they see the idea of preferred pronouns as an attempt to undermine their world views which aren’t the same as the person or people who want people to use their preferred pronouns.

Everyones gone through or goes through shìt at some point in their lives, or at many points in their lives, that’s not really any kind of a standard for arguing that anyone else who doesn’t share a belief should pretend like they do just to make anyone else feel better. It’s inauthentic for starters, which means any kind of a relationship is based upon a false premise, which is damaging to a person’s mental health to have to keep up a pretence rather than being able to be themselves.

It’s really not as difficult to understand as you think it is, once you actually think about it from someone else’s perspective other than your own.

I guess people get worked up about this because they recognise that it adds confusion to an already confusing time for children.

It's the false Ideology that's been pushed on children by so called activists hiding away behind some charitable status , just look at the thread about 3/4 year olds in Scotland being socially transitioned in preschool ,"it's ok there only respecting their preferred pronouns" children who can't read or barely count 1-20 can be socially transitioned ,

Preschool this is where this is going , someone has to stand up in education and say no I think we need to stand back and bring in independent psychological experts and let them see what is the best way forward ,not this constant barrage of trans ,trans ,trans ,

It's Massively over representated especially when it comes to school ,your not protecting any one your essentially saying these people are about the rest of you ,

They can't even decide how many genders and sexes there is ,and yet all we are hearing when it comes to lesbian ,gay/bi is the trans minority ,they need special protections,they need safe spaces they need separate toilets ,

How many trans kids in Irish schools less than 20 out of 1million I believe ,yet need these documents pushed into schools ,

Why - you have more chance of getting bullied for being from a poor background than being bullied for being trans ,

Great post ,⬆️

Yes, it’s as much of an imposition on the person who doesn’t share their beliefs as it is on the person or people who are of that belief. I absolutely get it, and I get where you’re coming from, but if someone doesn’t share your beliefs, or if someone doesn’t share my beliefs, I wouldn’t continue to press them on it until they gave in, because it’s disrespectful of their perspective and their values and their beliefs which I don’t share, and I wouldn’t feel any better knowing they were just doing it to appease me and it wasn’t genuinely felt. I just couldn’t do that to another person, but I actually do understand that people who aren’t the same as me may not share my views.

That’s precisely where the idea of world views comes from - people have their perceptions formed throughout their lives, and if they’re any way switched on and socially aware, they know that other people exist who don’t share their world views - consider for example trying to tell an atheist that you’ve had a tough life and it would be nice if they would pretend to be Catholic because it would make you feel better. To you of course it’s not a big deal, but think of what you’re asking of someone who doesn’t share your beliefs or world view?

Even when you used the phrase “I identify as a man”, I don’t identify as a man, I am a man. I get why you put it in those terms, and I completely understand it, and I don’t think you would ever try to have me say “I identify as a man too”. You’d know by me even if I tried that I was just pretending and that I didn’t truly believe in what I was saying. I dunno how you’d feel about it but I just wouldn’t do it in any case because I’d know it was disrespectful. It’s why I always rather than try and argue with someone about something which I understand is so fundamental to who they are as a person, I won’t do it, I won’t attempt to undermine their world views or their beliefs. I’d rather just avoid them altogether or have nothing to do with them if I know it’s something that we both feel as strongly about as we do.

I get that it’s only through use that it becomes normalised, and the same could be said of any idea, and I don’t support anyone who goes so far as to try and humiliate anyone who doesn’t share their beliefs, I don’t support the idea of humiliating anyone on the basis of their beliefs either. It’s a person’s behaviour and their attitude towards others I’d take issue with in any case, because I believe that everyone has a shared responsibility towards other people in society, as opposed to the idea of being coerced or guilt tripped into going along with something which undermines their own beliefs just to make someone else happy.

That’s precisely what makes people miserable, and I imagine that people who have been miserable pretending to be someone or something they’re not their whole lives would be able to understand that much and wouldn’t want anyone to feel as they did or they still do.

People who wish to promote ideologies like this will always exist, and that’s why campaigns like this will always exist, and I don’t blame people for campaigning for the kind of society they wish to live in, I do the same thing every day. The difference being I guess that I prefer to lead by example and I don’t support trying to coerce either adults or children into doing something, knowing they’re prone and vulnerable to peer pressure.

i was going to say the forum here was LGB until the 2010's probably, i'm not sure when it changed to include the T but a quick search shows that it was actually GLB in 2003

Edit, 28/5/2010 the name was changed to include T

FYI

Before the LGBT+ acronym - there was no acronym. Not Even LGB, which of course is all gay without the heterosexual trans or anyone else.

If there was a T in the Gay World, it was transsexual, not Trans, which was basically a guy dressing as a woman, for the sexual kink of it. So you'd have a straight guy (nudge nudge wink) dressing as a woman, having sex with a heterosexual man (nudge nudge wink), in a heterosexual scenario, but basically it was gay sex.

In recent years these transsexuals who were engaging in gay sex, have been appropriated into the trans world, by people with ideological views on trans issues.