Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

pretty sure the seller has to pay back the difference between market price and affordable price so they didn’t get an affordable house when all said and done….. dictating who you can and can’t sell to and for how much means you don’t really own the house…. Which is part of the Sinn Fein boll*x ideology.

it’s not ideal scenario regarding affordable houses but you don’t know the sellers circumstances. They might need to trade up due to family size, relocate, emigrate etc.

They only have to pay back part of the difference. In this case the seller came out 100k the better, far more than had the house been normally purchased and sold in the same time period.

Sellers circumstance is irrelevant, they get a subsidised house are spared from the carnage of the rental market and get the money back they invested in the home plus cpi inflation under SF proposals

To be making off with a profit of 100k as reported in the Ballymun apartment sale recently is obscene

What are the chances that apartment gets leased by the state at market rates. This madness needs to stop if the issue is ever to be fixed

The land stays in state ownership and is effectively the subsidy on the property under SF plan. The householder benefits from the subsidy but rightly is not the owner of that subsidy.

In the Ballymun case the claw back was fixed at 30k ie the valuation of the site

I don't see an inherent problem with that so long as it's a possibility, but not the *only* possibility in the market, and I think the latter is unlikely. The big challenge people in the rent trap have is trying to build equity, this cuts that out of the equation. If these are people unlikely to get on the property ladder otherwise, what's the dealbreaker?

It's all relative. The lodge has a BER if F. With a house that size the running costs would be horrific. It sits on an acre

Cluin Mhuire sits on two acres with stables. It could well be attractive younger family couple. As well it may allow a parent to contribute by selling a family home and moving into the two bed granny flat. Not the prettiest bungalow. It has a D2 BER which suggest for a house build 30 years ago it was build to a good spec. Running costs would be modest.

One is a house you and you children will be going around in body warmers from October to May. The other is where your kids learn to ride a pony with there grandparents watching

The beneficiaries get a home for a fraction of the market rate. What's not to like? If you want full ownership your free to enter the private market and pay double/triple

Really the BER is such a con, the way its implemented in Ireland.

People put far too much emphasis on the BER.

I'll get that BER to a C1 for you for €10k or less :)

Did it many times.

Then you can take off your coats.

The money may well be recycled on affordable purchase, but we eventually run out of state owned land and end up worse off.

We really need to be doing better than guessing when discussing how our taxes are spent. As well as the site costs, levies and charges are foregone that help fund the infrastructure required so that those houses exist.

In no way are all these recouped when the home is sold to the private market.

If we are in a position where new homes are only affordable to the top 25%of income earners, there needs to be a transitionary market of housing that is immune from the speculative private market.

People should move between these markets not the houses. A receiptient of one of these affordable homes is effectively getting a 50% cut in their housing costs over the private rental market. If they want to get a full ownership, Save the difference and move on to the private market and pass the house onto the next person

Selling these houses to the private market is insanity and a very expensive vote harvesting policy

€10k. And it will be a C1.

A B would be pushing it without more investment. Really not worth the expense.

But €10k max will get it to a C1.

Ive lost count of how many times we have done this since BERs came in.

The issue in Ireland is people do not understand how BERs work.

They see a low BER and think the place is a wind tunnel.

For example, solar water and LEDs are going to do nothing for the cold, but will bring up the BER.

A bit of insulation for a couple of hundred will also bring it up.

Put it all together with maybe a reconditioned boiler from the last few years and you are nearly there.

After that its a little more expensive. Pumped insulation, or even 50mm insulation backed plasterboard will get you up some more.

And of course, a new insulated water tank.

All of that can be done quite cheaply. Then you can pick off the next things on your list to improve it.

Anyway, regardless, if you can afford to buy that house you wont be moving into it with a BER of F.

Margins on new houses in commuter suburbs are running at 14-18% based on the financial reports of the publicly quoted cairn homes and glenveagh. This include very generous pay and pensions for the top management.

So a 3 bed home in Naas that was selling at about 320k (including site costs, design, connections to services, vat etc) was finished for about 260k.

Take the excessive pay packages for the top execs and you are under €250k

Remember "affordable" does not mean selling at a loss and the LDA remit also allows them purchase land, but in reality there is more than enough state land in primae areas around the country to build 200,000+ homes.

People need to stop believing the PR guff from the various interest partied in the construction industry that are saying it cost €xxx to build a house - its BULLSH1T