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Katherine Zappone Envoy Gig

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,998 ✭✭✭conorhal


    All the generals are in the bunker and sending hapless squaddies over the top to charge Mirriam's machine gun nest of questions.

    I know that's the kind of leadership that the Irish people want, leaders that lead from the rear, cowering under their desks while making panicked phone calls to Terry Prone.

    The sad thing is that we are almost inured to this and have come to expect no better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc


    There may be too few seats to go around. Though it may seem unlikely, an SF majority government is a possibility when the crony coalition falls.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Will never happen. The last time there was an overall majority was in 1977.

    Remember you need 81 seats for an overall majority and therefore need to poll about 40% to get that. SF won't get anywhere near that, no matter what.

    They would need to be pulling 2 TD's at least in every consistency and in some 3 TD's.... not going to happen.


    Everyone and their dog knows that if SF wants to get into power, they will need Labour, the SD's and possibly a whole raft of Indo's and/or PBP who would never agree to anything given their nature.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc


    You FG types never expected SF to have more seats than FG either. After yesterday's debacle, Coveney has the political stature of a garden gnome. He was probably the best hope as a replacement for Varadkar.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    SF won't get anywhere near that, no matter what.


    I am not saying that they will, But you definitely underestimate how pissed off people are with the crony parties.

    IMO - If this coalition doesn't last, FG will tank in the next GE. FF will lose MM and might possibly keep a few votes, but Leo would have to be immaculate from now until December '22 and I can't see that happening. We still haven't got the results of the criminal investigation either. As things stand, a coalition with SF and some IND's and smaller parties likely. They will be tough but none of them happy with current situation, and if they have any sense they will see the opening and take it as their chance to shine for themselves. FG are damaged and I'd almost bet that there will be more f*ck ups before christmas.

    Could be a whole new era, things done the way the are in the rest of Europe. FG won't be able to tantrum like Leo did after the last GE ever again. 🤞



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    You wont hear anything from Labour,afraid of their lives that awkward question will be asked of them about the Merrion victory party if they raise their heads above the parapet.

    Pity we dont have a proper media with the appetite to really investigate that little shindig



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    You can throw out all the insults you want, the fact is SF will not get an overall majority. They will need to be pulling in two TD's in EVERY consistency and 3 TD's in some which will not happen.

    Everyone knows that the next government will be a coalition government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    What we do know is that the next government will involve SF and I know that must stick in your craw.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    People need to get off their phones, and off Twitter the likes. The world is not social media. Just because there is an angry echo chamber somewhere doesn't mean that is the real world.

    The government has almost 4 years left, when there is a GE this story won't even get a mention.



    Even when SF is at 30% of the polls, they are projected for 56 seats. That is 25 seats short of an overall majority. They need to be polling in the 40%+ range to even think about an overall majority.

    Even with Labour and the SD's on board, they may struggle to get over that 81 seat mark. It's going to be a broad coalition with many wants and lots of negotiations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc



    The political stature of a garden gnome. I thought it was a rather good description of the position in which Coveney finds himself. No doubt it is upsetting to you FG types but that is reality. What is not reality is your rather odd claim that SF not getting an overall majority in a GE that has not been run is a "fact".

    You don't seem to understand how the media situation has changed for FG either. Even the once reliable Sindo/Indo is no longer owned by Dinny O'Brien. Its tone has changed and even Philip Ryan is asking tough questions of the crony coalition. Communicorp, previously owned by Dinny O'Brien, has also been sold to Bauer and FG. Without the media dominance that these outlets provided, FG is struggling to get its policies and views propagated by the once colllaborationist Dublin media. The danger for FF/FG now is that SF has what the Americans refer to as "the big Mo".

    SF has political momentum. It beat FG into third place in the last GE. FG has the misfortune to be led by a serial loser who was appointed by the FG Oireachtas politburo despite the grassroots voting for Coveney in the election contest. Varadkar has led FG to one defeat after another and even managed to lose a safe seat in FG's heartland. The crony coalition may have the makings of a single party but there is a substantial number of FFers who would not be grovelling FG wannabes like Martin and faced with the termination of their political careers, they may consider defecting to SF. That is a factor that could give SF a majority after the next GE. If the defections are to start, they should do so after SF starts to consistently poll around 35% in the opinion polls and the FG wannabe Martin is not removed by FF.

    Regards...jmcc



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    If that happens, a part of me will be happy out.

    It is a win-win.

    They either ride in, like the white Knights they sell themselves to be and fix all of Irelands issues in a few years (a win), or it quickly dawns on the majority of people who lent them a vote that their populist slogans and shouting antics doesn't make up for the fact that when you are in government, you have to govern, with sound policies and the like. They will be like Labour V2.0. There is no gold at the end of the rainbow. (That is another win.)

    I will bet heavily on the latter given their terrible record in the North.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Jaysus, we have had a veritable full house of soundbites there. "Sindo, Dinny, da Dublin Media...."

    Why is it that some SF supporters remarkably resemble the MAGA hat Trump supporters when it comes to 'da media'?


    Anyway, nothing you have said convinces me that SF will get near an overall majority. They need to be well into the 40% mark consistently when it comes to polling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,494 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Sinn Fein quite simply are a generation or two away from having the capacity to have an overall majority...

    the biggest obstacle to SF will be IF labour get their shît together...

    In 10 years and under 3 different leaders, Labour have gone from 37 seats to 6 seats. They’ve lost over 83% of their seats in a decade.

    A big catalyst for that is choosing 3 seriously uncharacteristic and uncommunicative leaders.

    Eamonn Gilmore, not likable, zero personality, or charisma

    Joan Bruton is a decent TD, a hard worker, a leader ? Hmmm

    Brendan Howlin, 66 at his next birthday, Labour should be led by a youngish, dynamic astute individual... not a pensioner, sorry. He’s not a great speaker, orator, it also seems too easy to get under his skin. Seems always wound up... Don’t know what he’s like as an individual but I remember we were at a non political charitable event about 18 years ago... I was helping selling raffle tickets for the charity and I asked him politely in a non invasive manner if he’d care to buy a couple just as he passes us and he looked at us like I’d asked to go into his house and piss on his kids, he seemed astounded that at a charity event, a person might be politely looking for twenty quid to help the charity by selling a few tickets... odd... a no thanks would have done !



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc



    One can always spot an FG type by its insults. They are really quite binary in nature. To them, one is either FG or not. In previous times, FGers would accuse people of being FF supporters. Now, as SF is the largest party, they accuse people of being SF supporters. The Trump reference is for bonus points as it was FG who was traditionally pro-Republican Party and now seeks to hide that fact. I noticed the Trump talking point being pushed a while ago by FGers. It was a particularly cack-handed FG PR effort to associate SF with Trump.

    As for the Sindo/Indo terms, they are a kind of shorthand for IN&M. Dinny O'Brien had to sell his shares in IN&M for around 45 million Euro having spent around 500 million Euro acquiring them. And the Dublin media is a rather incestuous village media when viewed by people with experience of the media outside of Ireland. It was easy for FG to control these gombeens but now that stranglehold is rapidly disappearing. The implications of that might be dire for the crony coalition and some of the cheerleaders for FF/FG will have to reinvent themselves to survive.

    It is the binary FG/not FG thing that has led FG to having one of its worst GE results ever. It has reduced Coveny's political stature to that of a garden gnome as it tried to create a makey-up job for its crony Zappone. Unless FG does something quickly, its incompetence is going to accelerate the possibility of an SF majority government when the crony coalition collapses.

    And now the usual suspects want to commemorate the RIC/Black and Tans again.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    This doesn't make sense. The time for SF is either now or never. What is the point of their large vote the last time out if they are going to sit back and wait for a few more election cycles to actually put their hand up and do something in power? They cannot sit on the sidelines forever and SF knows this!!

    If and when they get onto the pitch, the spotlight will be on them to deliver. That cant be shouting angry populist slogans from the sidelines in the hope some of it sticks because they will be the people on the pitch playing senior hurling. This of course means they will have to make decisions, some of them unpopular, maybe many of them unpopular, as that is the nature of governing. There is no magic fairy dust or magic beans here, that is the harsh and hard reality of being in power. Don't believe me? Look at SF in the North.


    With all that being said, one thing we know of the Irish electorate is that they like to give the parties in power a kicking. I fully expect the new SF vote to all but disappear when many of its new younger supporters who are not hard-core UI folks realise that there is no Santa Clause and give their vote to someone else. Core SF vote is about 10%. A term in office when things unravel a bit will see them right back down there. Labour v2.0

    Oh, by the way. Labour is led by Alan Kelly who is 46, not Brendan Howlin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    This is bringing the thread off-topic and I want to respect the mods, but at the end of the day, SF won't be getting an overall majority. There is simply not enough votes out there for them to achieve that. You can believe that they will, but belief is just that.


    As to your comments, well if you constantly go on about 'da Dublin media' in such pejorative terms, and how they are also soooo unfair to SF, then comparisons to Trump's view on the media are very apt indeed. Nobody else is banging on about the 'Dublin media' but you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc



    Based on the performance on yesterday's committee meeting, Labour's biggest problem is the SocDems. Gary Gannon was surprisingly good and didn't leave Coveney wriggle off the hook. I don't think that Labour had anyone questioning Coveney.

    RTE used to have a Labour politician on every panel but that seems to have ended. The "Nice But Dim" vote that votes on Social Justice issues seems to have split since 2016. It used to vote for Labour but it seems to have split between the Greens (the Grimacing Greta effect) and the SocDems in the last GE. The Greens had a failed coup from the Social Justice Worrier element. The Irish Greens are quite different from the European Greens (Communist leaning if not outright Communist. Someone described the Greens as being FG on bikes.). They seemed to want to replace Eamon Ryan with Catherine Martin. After the coup failed, a lot of them went off to form the Green Left (much like the 2007 split which formed Fis Nua).

    Labour is compromised on this thing as Bacik was one of the Merriongate 50. It really isn't a national political party any longer and is almost completely dependent on the personal votes of the candidates as opposed to ideological party votes. Even though Gannon is relatively inexperienced in political terms, he was quite effective. The SocDems' main problem is its two leaders. Based on the committee appearance, if the SocDems get a few more effective politicans, then it is curtains for Labour.

    Regards...jmcc

    Post edited by jmcc on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭hamburgham


    Yes, was interesting that the Indo gave a fair bit of coverage to Leo at the festival and even published the photo in the online version anyway but I don’t think the Irish Times had a single word about it. Obviously wanted to kill the story.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Ihave lost all faith in SF as this Government has made a shambles of this Country in the last few years and SF are saying nothing.

    I did not watch Prime Time but i will wager Pierce Doherty did not say that the Minister should resign, the only one that can sack him is Leo and that's not going to happen.

    The only thing that will happen is it will go away in the next few days or there be a vote of confidence next week and we continue until the next chapter...



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,986 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    It's a fair point re not featuring the infamous festival photo, I suspect more to do with how and when it updates its website particularly over weekends. But I have to disagree re their general coverage and them wishing to kill the story, certainly not. Their focus is primarily political and they have been as damning as any other publication.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc


    The Indo's coverage has been a lot more aggressive as regards FG. It was Philip Ryan who gutted Martin with questions that would have been unthinkable a year ago for the Indo. It seems to be making a play for the centre of the market and is dumping the old SF Workers Party/Eoghan Harris obsession with SF.

    There's also an OpEd by Ian O'Doherty which seems critical of recent events. The Merriongate/Zappone thing has really disturbed the status quo with the media and politicians who were largely off-limits for criticism are now being openly criticised. The Irish Times seems happy enough for its stablemate, the Irish Examiner, to make the running on this and its coverage has been quite good.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,986 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I did watch prime time and it's correct SF have not asked for resignations YET! But to suggest they've said nothing is completely incorrect and they are certainly not alone in this regard.

    Timing has to be put into context, Opposition parties know Dail in recess, they are playing the waiting came, they know like most of us, FG will go into hiding for a few days, they equally know there's going to be in-fighting at FFG think ins and sensibly waiting to see what other information will materialise. Let's not forget Pearse Doherty has also put in a FOI request to Paschals department. Let's also not forget a motion of no confidence is likely and better put down when Dail as actually returned.

    I commend in particular Social Democrat's and SF for their responses to date, Labour seem to be asleep on this entire debacle and also commend a small few FFG deputies for having some courage to speak out .

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    You're on the site 10 years. In the 10 years here, would anyone find a single post of yours were you have had faith, (that you've now lost apparently)?

    If not, can we assume you never had faith in them, and as such, losing something you never had is like taking knickers off a bare backside.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,986 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Gosh you were kept busy in the wee hours 😏 seems a certain cohort comes out at night. Some excellent points raised over night but of course we know, there will remain, those who despite their loyalties fail to see anything untoward having occurred throughout this debacle.

    Always fascinated me that the Tired old Blame SF for everything game is rolled out every time FG caught acting the maggot. Some outlandish claims such as dictatorships at play and absurd accusations of Homophopia just because people disagree with Leo's breathtaking arrogance are just Tiresome.

    But of course most right thinking ,sensible and objective observers see this entire debacle for what it truly is, Shameful, Shenanigans and quite disgraceful.

    The FG cult membership may not like it, but this entire charade has damaged FG's credibility, few can deny this with a straight face 😏 but of course some will

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 26,986 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Charming thought whilst having my weetabix 🤣🤣

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Still working. Lightning and brown-outs are not a great combination and a few terrabyte databases had to be checked. I watched a few committee meetings in the past but Coveney was being made to defend the indefensible. At times it was hard not to have some pity for him because the other politicians were doing such a good job on the questions. There seems to be a list of insults ready for anyone who questions FG. The questioner must be an SFer and therefore their opinion doesn't matter. The questioner must be a Trump supporter because FG has been trying to claim that SF supported Trump (a very odd claim). The terrifying thing about the FFG coalition is that they really believe they are the smartest guys in the room (Enron reference). There's a general sense of frustration among some FG supporters over the Zappone/Merriongate thing because it has dragged on and she is not an FGer.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Its waffle... if they want to change they need to lead today... They had the largest party numbers after last election and sat back and let the two lads form a Government. If we want to change we need to do it ourselves. SF are the biggest party in the country and your talking about what Labour should be doing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,986 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Had considered location of posters but still no excuse for silliness 😏

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 26,986 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Not sure we're you been for the past two years but clearly not following Irish politics

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Tell me what they did.... do not mention housing as i created a post here about 3 years ago "cuckoo funds" i was basically laughed at.. Two years later the was some changes made after Corporate Property companies bought Thousands of houses around the Country and rented most back to Local Councils.

    Give me a couple of examples of what i missed in the last 2 years... I am really interested in this info....



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