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The Killing of Fr Niall Molloy

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 494 ✭✭Billgirlylegs


    I knew Fr Molloy, but I was not his friend or confidant. He always struck me exactly how he was described in the program - a pleasant, affable gentleman( in all the good and positive meanings of the word). I never heard a word of speculation of him being "a boyo with the ladies". His interest in horses was longstanding and well known.

    After that I can only speculate like others. I always assumed that this was caused by money, and that the circumstances in which he died were close to what was described by Richard Flynn.

    I find it hard to believe the story of a crowd witnessing the act itself. Someone would have spilled the beans since then if this was the case. I have to admit that I am puzzled about why Fr Molloy (appeared to be) planning to tackle his friends about non repayment of a personal loan. Was the weekend of their family wedding, much less on the day after the big day, when there appeared to be a second gathering organised not the worst time to do that? I was of the opinion (with no evidence) that Fr Molloy was the one under financial pressure and needed his money back pronto.

    I am sceptical over the findings of the re examination of PM material in 2011. This is some 26 years after the event, and stated that 6 odd hours had passed between injury and death. Surely the material had to have deteriorated in the course of the PM and / or 26 years. It seemed to be far too exact to accommodate the gap between when death was reported and guests leaving the party, and I assume the it would have been more obvious at the PM.

    I think the real story is what happened in court. How the case was terminated and why. Why no appeal? The DPP reviewed material in 2012, and adjudged there was no merit in proceeding.



  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Whatever the reason for the attack, do you have any view on the brutality of the attack and the lack of medical intervention post attack?

    even if you take the “story” of not going downstairs to get others a drink” as the true reason for what happened, it makes no sense to me that they left him to die- here was a family friend of 30 years lay dying in their bedroom and no attempt was made to seek professional medical assistance until it was too late.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭Tork


    It's obvious that they wanted him to die. Dead men can't talk.



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ernielove


    My understanding as regards to him not officiating the wedding is because he had a wedding on that day in his own parish. I believe the widely published photo of him in white was taken at that wedding he officiated at. Apparently if there's a conflict of events then the priest must put his own parish first.



  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭Spencer101


    Do you not think in the mid 1980s a priest could have got a couple in his parish to delay a wedding a week or two so as not to clash with a wedding at a house he lived in for close to half the month ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ernielove


    potentially. I have no idea. One of the fascinating aspects of the case is how Ireland was in the 80's. The cars driven and the houses that the 'monied classes' lived in at the time. Having listened to a podcast on the case from a few months ago it is apparent that these people did not necessarily associate with the normal folk of the town, i dont think they were GAA people, they were horsie set through and through. Its funny therefore that there was a very lavish wedding put on when the payer was obviously in dire straits as regards to personal finances. Ive read elsewhere that the Revenue billed him for over 125k a year or more later for him not having made returns on the three businesses he ran.


    Also how does a guy with three shops live in a mansion!??? I get that he sold over 400ha of prime farming land in the mid 70's but what else was there,



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fr Molloy may not have been a ladies to man to have been having a long standing affair with the one woman tbh. Wouldn't be that unusual, ime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭akelly02


    i may watch it. He married my uncle in roscommon the day before he was murdered!



  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭Spencer101


    I thought it was 400 acres of farming land not 400 hectares which is c1,000 acres. There's a reference in Today Tonight to what Molloy & T Flynn paid for c60 acres- this was obviously pre- celtic tiger time so most had no money and as a result land seems remarkably cheap (even when adjusted for inflation)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 776 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    That wedding it seems may have been paid from the money fr Molloy paid to Richard Flynn bank a/c as down payment for land purchase and maybe this land purchase deal was just a ploy by Mr and Mrs Flynn to secure funding to pay for this lavish wedding event if their cash flow tight at that time



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    You are watching to many mafia or Love Hate type programs where the baddies beat up people or kill them over a debt.

    What if the financial partnership he had with Theresa was just a front to fleece him?

    What if he found out that documents that were supposed to include his name as a partner didn't have his name at all and thus in legal terms she owned everything?

    Then you are looking at fraud.

    And would you put it past someone that later tried to claim life insurance on him ?

    His house was broken into and searched.

    For what ?

    If he dies, if the paperwork linking him to any partnership doesn't exist anywhere, the ownership of any assets (horses, land, etc) are all in her name.

    That would solve an awful lots of financial issues for them.

    Whatever happened to his will ?

    She had been his friend for years and I bet did initially genuinely start off in business with him through their shared love of horses.

    But maybe slowly over time the hubbie saw him as a cash cow that could be drained.

    Maybe Fr Molloy eventually caught wind of something.

    I get the feeling that he was never best friends with the hubbie it was all through her.

    Maybe hubbie never liked him anyway and when it kicked off he lost it.

    She is supposed to have taken him upstairs after fight with hubbie.

    Maybe she tried to reason with him not to go public about dodgy dealing and when he refused she turned on him and then hubbie and others joined in from downstairs?

    All she has to claim is that he went for her either physically or sexually and hubbie and others gladly kick the shyte out of him?

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eh I think you’re the one with the TV fictional mind with that elaborate theory- yet another conspiracy theory adding nothing to this thread



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 776 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    That's a good logical theory if the Flynn's were having cash flow problems with their own businesses which it seems they were.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,301 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    No, I think that would have been a very strange thing for a priest to do.

    Weddings in the 80s were organised in much the same way as they are nowadays. The couple would have approached the celebrant to ascertain his availability, and that the church was available on the day. They would then go ahead and organise everything around that date, including their venue. Well known hotels would have weddings most weekends.

    It wouldn't be at all reasonable for the celebrant to ask them to delay their wedding because he was asked to officiate at another wedding. And from what has been shown on the programme so far, and from various articles, over the years, Fr Molloy seems to have been a diligent priest who served his parishioners well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    Maybe the local wedding was just planned long before the Flynn’s? He’d hardly cancel then.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If the plan was to kill him for his assets they picked a massively high profile way to do it, at their daughter's wedding ffs. it's just not plausible. If they had planned to kill him all they had to do is say he made a pass at a woman (or child) and things escalated.

    It's far more likely someone just got overly aggressive when drunk. We've probably all been in rooms where fights have kicked off over nothing when drink is taken. The only real issue is if it was Richard Flynn or not for me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 776 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    Going by Mondays documentary fr Molloy was going to Flynn's with something heavy on his mind...maybe what he said caused ruptions ...this wasn't a planned assualt I would think by the Flynn's on fr Molloy but he may have been a thorn on their side from then on if he survived and literally thought they'd get away with murder by claiming self defence/accidental fall.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭rovers_runner


    Guardians of the peace eh, some boys they are.

    They even paid drug lords for the files that got misplaced to ensure it wouldn't get out.

    I'd say Dr. Harbison saw many things that he was told to keep to himself over the years.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It was a strange documentary, made a lot of Fr Molloy's privileged upbringing and doubts over his vocation. Certainly primes it for a revelation about a mistress off somewhere. It is portrayed (though perhaps not accurately?) that he was wealthy enough to leave the priesthood from his family wealth so why would he have used that weekend to kick up over the money he was owed?

    It's all too easy to cast aspersions on the deceased but I wouldn't be surprised by either a revelation that he had a different partner somewhere (and fair play to him if he did) or that he was the father of one of the Flynn's kids. It's easier to imagine a fight along the lines of "the bride was really his daughter" or money than any actual planned fight.



  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Certainly from the testimony in documentary part 1, that weekend event was significant for Fr. Molloy- for whatever that reason was- you could certainly come to the conclusion that it was a “grave” reason, a life defining moment- that was certainly the impression portrayed- whether it was just a socially challenging event or life and career changing event who knows at this point- but “something” was amiss .

    The only account I can discount was the story put forward by Flynn- that it was simply an argument over who goes downstairs to get a drink- yes certainly such an argument could occur- and with enough drink blows traded- but regret would follow very quickly - not leaving someone to die- no way .

    As for anyone else involved? I don’t think that necessarily follows- it could well have been something between the 2 Flynn’s and Molloy- and unless they confided in their kids as to what happened and why, it will always remain a mystery.

    I’ve no idea why Molloy stated Theresa was his sister in his will- nor why Theresa claimed to be his sister in law when claiming on his insurance policy (I think I’ve got that aspect correct) - maybe it was something to do with the church at that time? Rules, Canon law on inheritances? Who knows



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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,301 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    The only account I can discount was the story put forward by Flynn- that it was simply an argument over who goes downstairs to get a drink- yes certainly such an argument could occur- and with enough drink blows traded- but regret would follow very quickly - not leaving someone to die- no way .

    I don't think the story about a row over who was to get a drink was ever believed, even at the time. It didn't make any sense.

    I thought the documentary really portrayed the stark reality that the priest was left to die, possibly over several hours. It's hard to comprehend the callousness of that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,194 ✭✭✭Talisman


    @[Deleted User]

    I’ve no idea why Molloy stated Theresa was his sister in his will

    Where was this reported? I had always understood that the will had never been found.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 776 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    That was for a type of life insurance if accidental death...it would have paid out about £1500...his will would his current assets including horses land cash



  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I definitely read what I posted, somewhere- but I just can’t find the link right now- some of my previous links I posted may have it- definitely one website claimed Malloy had her down as text of kin in his will, as his sister.


    However I can only find this link right now that mentions she claimed to be his sister when claiming on the insurance policy after his death - I actually read elsewhere she claimed she was his “sister in law”- so there are differing accounts depending what website you read.

    https://presspack.rte.ie/2021/09/06/the-killing-of-fr-niall-molloy/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,930 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Too many here are over thinking this situation. It was a straight case over money. Why was he in the Flynn bedroom???. There was obviously discussions over money/ finances.

    We know that Richard Flynn's businesses were in trouble. RF comes across as a man that came from a wealthy ( land owning) class. Richspeed was developed on a flawed concept. His was a motor accessories business. You have to understand that till receipts were not not linked to stock as nowadays. Margins were not as high as at present. I expect that RF was just a bad business man on trouble.

    For Molloy was looking for his money back and was going to follow through with it. Whether it was RF or Theressa that killed him it is obviously one of them. I actually suspect it was her and she broke down after the event, that is why she had to be removed from the scene she was incapable of managing what happened.

    There is no need to look beyond the money

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭Spencer101


    Fr Molloy had a room in the Flynn's house and had known them 30 years or so. I doubt it was the first time he had gone in the marital bedroom at night. Richard Flynn was a former Munster rugby captain one presumes that a large amount of the other men at the wedding/ in house night of murder were from a broadly similar background. It would seem to me that Fr Molloy was battered and it wasn't done by Therese Flynn. In the McGinn report someone called to the house to offer condolences and was surprised (as they had heard the Flynns version of events) to see no marks on her face. One difficulty for many of us is this was a different time, a different world. Unless you were alive in 1985 and/or of a certain age to remember life in Ireland- easy to forget the attitude to paying tax. The morality (or lack of morality) that would allow for the life assurance claim albeit of course that was not pursued. Elsewhere on the forum someone says it was for £1,500. I can't find anything to back that up save that McGinn described it as a ' modest sum of money'. The Flynns seemed as happened in that decade to be living beyond their means. I'm sure those elsewhere in the country who had modest success in business wouldn't have thought having 2/3 motor factor shops and a cafe (or some similar business empire) was unobtainable- I don't think they all expected on foot of that to be living in a 23 bedroom house.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,276 ✭✭✭Deeec


    The Flynn wedding was in July and the newly weds had their first baby the following December - so she was 3-4 months pregnant on her wedding day. So perhaps the Flynns wedding planning was rushed. Its highly likely the other wedding was arranged before the Flynns announced they were having a wedding the same day so Fr Molloy stood by his original plans.

    Im sure Fr Molloy was possibly annoyed that he was owed money by the Flynns and that weekend they spent so much money on a lavish wedding.



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ernielove


    According to his son at his eulogy he was the Connaught captain and had to retire through injury aged 25 (per IT article in 2017 when he died)

    A hospital report at the time says she was black/blue from her injuries. So again, conflicting reports.

    I think you hit the nail on the head when you say they were living beyond their means, i mention it above also in an earlier post, where did they think they were going with a mansion such as that with the business they had. if you look at anyone else in the 80's who, as you say, had modest business success, they may have had a nicer car or maybe two, the kids wore new clothes and not 'hand me downs' or adidas runners io Dunnes stores but no one had a 23 bed mansion.

    It does make me wonder what is going on with the house now and why no one has turned it into a hotel or Spa resort.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 776 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    I also notice that when Richard died...at his funeral all his children have a great account of him..... meanwhile when Therese..their mother died ..there is absolutely nothing in the press about her funeral and she dying first...the only thing about her was that Richard was to buried beside her at his burial.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 49 ernielove


    he married again subsequently. I only found out from here as to when she actually died.



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