Rugby Championship 2021 Thread

stephen_n · 09-09-2021 9:57pm

Next thing we are going to be saying people leading with their elbows going into tackles, are doing it to stabilize themselves. If anyone’s face happens to run into it, sure it was just for stability.

stephen_n · 09-09-2021 10:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870116#Comment_117870116

Except he wasn’t leaning back when he caught the ball. He was perfectly straight when he brought his leg up.

Podge_irl · 09-09-2021 10:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870135#Comment_117870135

I think you want to follow through into the ball and he mistimed and had to keep his upper body steady essentially and this resulted in the momentum brining his leg up.

It is somewhat irrelevant to the point though. As far as I'm concerned whether he deliberately brought his leg up or "accidently" did it as a function of catching the ball, the blame rests 100% on him.

ersatz · 10-09-2021 10:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117861630#Comment_117861630

Hmm, I didn't realize that intent mattered and that players should be forgiven if the red card incident was accidental. That should mean a lot of red cards over the past few seasons being expunged from records. Numerous head shot reds have been the result of unintentional accidents on the part of carded payers.

sydthebeat · 10-09-2021 10:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871325#Comment_117871325

hummm this post shows a complete lack of awareness of how due process works.

there have been plenty of cases of red cards or citings dismissed due to accidental nature of collisions. Koribete himself had a red card expunged for a high tackle as the head contact was "incidental"

Benjamin Fall had a red card against the all blacks expunged for running under ALB who was catching in the air. it was determined that Fall was "knocked off balance" immediately before the contact and thus the players actions were "accidental"

we also have this barrett case where the contact was deemed accidental.

10-09-2021 11:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870116#Comment_117870116

So he jumps in the air, realises that the ball is slightly behind him, but he can still make the catch. He then considers that there is a possibility that one of him limbs might go out to help him maintain balance, so he ducks under the ball and lets it bounce behind him. All in a split second. Righto.

Podge_irl · 10-09-2021 11:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871611#Comment_117871611

Or he kicks someone in the face and gets red carded. Those should be his options yes.

If you actually want to stop head injuries then you need to target the dangerous behaviour that leads to them. Putting your legs out studs up at head height is dangerous, it doesn't matter why you are doing it.

Podge_irl · 10-09-2021 11:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871419#Comment_117871419

In Fall's case that makes his actions involuntary, not accidental.

sydthebeat · 10-09-2021 11:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871641#Comment_117871641

not according to the judiciary committee

Whilst it is unfortunate that NZ #10 sustained a concussion after landing on his head, was removed from the match and is unlikely to be available for the third Test match we did not consider that the Player’s actions, in the circumstances of this case, were deliberate or reckless. In our opinion, as supported by all the video footage, the Player’s actions were accidental as they were brought about by his collision with NZ #13, the effect of which changed his initial running line thereby pushing him towards NZ #10. We did not consider that the Player would have foreseen the events, which ultimately unfolded, and therefore could not have, in our opinion, given the speed of the events and the dynamics at play, taken any preventative steps to avoid the collision with NZ #10 or to have put himself in a position to contest the ball as he had initially planned.

10-09-2021 11:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871638#Comment_117871638

But what you're saying is completely unrealistic. How many times does Jordie raise a leg like that when making a catch? Do you think he consciously did it? How do you stop him from doing it in the future? It's only when he's actually in the air that he had to adjust for the catch, so I really don't think that making a decision to not catch it is that simple.

Anyway, when it comes to head injuries in rugby, surely incidents of this nature are a long way down the priority list.

ersatz · 10-09-2021 10:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871419#Comment_117871419

The due process system in Rugby is fairly self evident, if often very inconsistent and markedly so between the north and south. How many times have we seen players taken out in the air when the offending player clearly didn't 'intend' to take them out, yet they get the card in any case, even when their eyes remained on the ball and had no view of the competing player and by any measure the collision is accidental. Was CJ's attempted block of Lambe different in any meaningful way from Barrett's foot in K's face in terms of whether either was intentional or just sloppy and needlessly careless? Same goes for Payne's red card against Goode.

There are tons of others but those two most people will remember for their significance. IN the case of talking players out the assumption is that the offending player should have known someone is in the air because of the 'due care' imperative. I'd say Fall's case is less similar to Barrett's than either of the two I mention here as he was genuinely bounced by another player and had lost control by the time the impact happened and couldn't have done anything to avoid it. Most of these players know each other, many have played together and sometimes play for the same club or country team when they come up against each other. Very few of them are psychos who are intentionally trying to injure other players and we know that the we see it, it's fairly rare. Yet head injuries and head shots persist though their incidence has been reduced by zero tolerance reffing. Barrett getting a pass for that incident makes a mockery of lots of other rulings where players got bans for unintentional accidental fouls that resulted in cards simply because they should have known better.

Podge_irl · 10-09-2021 10:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871671#Comment_117871671

Yeah, I think the judiciary committee are pretty badly wrong in their use of the word accidental and have very unfortunately muddied the water. Fall's actions were not accidental, they were completely out of his control.

Yeah_Right · 12-09-2021 9:14am

Enjoyable and very physical game so far. The ABs took a while to get their dominance to show on the scoreboard. That 5 minutes before half time may have broken the Argies.

TomsOnTheRoof · 12-09-2021 1:11pm

Delighted for the Wallabies. Reece Hodge will be a relieved man after kicking the ball away with 1.30 left on the clock.

12-09-2021 1:11pm

Quade Cooper.... redemption... absolutely brilliant pressure kick.

GiftofGab · 12-09-2021 3:29pm

Southern Hemisphere rugby is back - great win for Australia. Cooper with an impressive mature performance. Thought they were very clinical too - took every chance they got. Man I hate South Africa.

thebaz · 13-09-2021 12:19pm

Well done Australia - Great to see South Africa brand of horrible (winning) rugby fail.

swiwi_ · 13-09-2021 5:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117884316#Comment_117884316

Yeah good to see running rugby still has a place.

molloyjh · 17-09-2021 3:44pm

I see another video moan about the red has been compiled. I’m very surprised it hasn’t been released to the public yet. It’s going to be a long, long time before people forget this appalling sore loser BS.

lawrencesummers · 18-09-2021 8:08am

Im expecting a big start from the boks here, but over 80 minutes if Australia can keep tempo high they could get back to back wins on the world champions

einn32 · 18-09-2021 8:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117906952#Comment_117906952

Boks actually using their backs this week! Tight game but the Ozzie's have found some tries so far.

lawrencesummers · 18-09-2021 10:08am

Have the boks run out of bok?

Interested Observer · 18-09-2021 10:10am

Delighted Aus won that, only team who tried to play rugby and SA spent most of their time trying to milk penalties. They are rugby poison. I hope NZ absolutely destroy them.

sydthebeat · 18-09-2021 10:11am

Delighted with that result.

Should have been a red at the end there for weisse

Interested Observer · 18-09-2021 10:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907198#Comment_117907198

I couldn't believe he needed to be talked down from a red for Aus in the first half (was absolutely never a red) and then didn't give one for that. Bizarre decisions.

Dave_The_Sheep · 18-09-2021 11:22am

Bet that decision won't make the highlight reel for this week's SA video for World Rugby.

fitz · 18-09-2021 12:22pm

Beaut of a cross field kick try for the Pumas.

phog · 18-09-2021 7:12pm

So Australia beat SA twice in a row, makes you think what The Lions should have achieved in there tour to SA

thebaz · 18-09-2021 7:14pm

Australia saving rugby - South Africa anti-rugby brand is toxic, so good to see the game played properly and winning. Excellent.

Enzokk · 18-09-2021 8:17pm

South Africa has not been good for a long time. The team has been relying on results and not performances since before the World Cup. Rassie Erasmus is not some savant and saviour, he is doing exactly what Allister Coetzee would have been doing, if Coetzee had the guts to not pick the form players at the time. The Lions were dominating the local scene with inferior players. They had no equal among the other local teams in 2016 and 2017 and they did this having had to rebuild from nothing with cast offs from other teams. They did this by going against the game plan of the other teams and ran them off their feet. But they didn't just run for the sake of running, but played a fast game to tire out the other teams and within that running style learned not to just run at the nearest defender and try to run over them but run in the gap.

Coetzee lost his job because he was trying to fit round pegs into square holes and when Erasmus came in he just picked who he wanted, not who the form players was (picking 45 player squads was a good way to pick all the form players and then leave them out when it came to the matchday 23). The team has been relying on defense and turnovers (intercepts) and magic from players in broken play (Kolbe) to create tries from nothing. There isn't a pattern they rely on other than try to outmuscle the other teams to win. That wins you tournaments, but it is not sustainable in the long run.

The current team has been relying on their result and the performances has been ignored because the team won. Erasmus successfully moved the focus from the performance to the referee after the first test against the Lions and they won the series, so who cares if they won the third test luckily? Nobody in South Africa was asking about the performance and anyone that questioned it was called negative and against the team. The journalists has also weirdly become fans that get paid to write about the team instead of focusing on what they should be doing.

But there was always the chance that the team would find trouble and with a couple of injuries you can see what happened. With Du Toit out you lose Mostert as a lock and you lose De Jager as sub. With Kolbe out you lose your flair player that can magic out of nothing. A good team will not struggle with 2 injuries like this, but this team is struggling.

There is always the chance they can beat the All Blacks next week, as the All Blacks do like getting into the arm wrestle with South Africa. If they play a fast game and don't fall for trying to outmuscle South Africa then it can get ugly. This SA team is slow and can be easily run off its feet as happened today. Australia took the game away from SA after about 60 minutes and SA were off their feet. There was no way they were going to come back and the ease with which Australia defended their line in the last 5-10 minutes said it all.

It really is an indictment on Gatland that he choose the wrong style to win the series for the Lions. If he was a little more daring I think the Lions could easily have won 3-0 by running this team off their feet.

Rugby Championship 2021 Thread

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