The Killing of Fr Niall Molloy

Turfcutter · 10-09-2021 8:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870989#Comment_117870989

In the early 90s orations from the altar by family wasn't common at all.

Turfcutter · 10-09-2021 8:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870925#Comment_117870925

I don't remember any hospital report saying she was black and blue? In fact I thought it was unexplained item that there was no seen hospital records of her stay there.

Turfcutter · 10-09-2021 9:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870923#Comment_117870923

I think it is fairly well accepted that a parish priest had to give preference to local weddings. Back then Fr Deignan who officiated at the actual wedding wouldn't have been most people's first choice for a wedding as he was quite an austere person.

However that's a very good point about the lavishness of the wedding. This may have been the trigger for Fr Molloy to finally lose his patience with the Flynns. Owed thousands by them, being strung along and then seeing what the money was being blown on.

ernielove · 10-09-2021 9:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871011#Comment_117871011

Take a look at the McGinn report, specifically page 92, second to last para where he, the hospital employee, describes Theresa as having 'a black eye and a badly bruised face'.

Talisman · 10-09-2021 9:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870663#Comment_117870663

My grandfather always believed that it was Theresa who was responsible for the initial assault. His reasoning was that it's the only explanation for why there were no defensive wounds on the victim. He used to say that a gentleman would never raise his hand to a woman even in self defense, that was drummed into him as a child by his own father and he believed that Niall Molloy would have been taught similar rules.

Spencer101 · 10-09-2021 9:40am

Which, whether you fully agree or not, brings us back to the point already made that there are members of the wedding party alive and loosely between the age of 55-65 who have kept silent for 36 years over the truth of that night.

Turfcutter · 10-09-2021 10:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871073#Comment_117871073

Ok, that's a witness account from someone who saw her in hospital as opposed to a report from Tullamore hospital.

ernielove · 10-09-2021 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871305#Comment_117871305

you are quite right my apologies.

Turfcutter · 10-09-2021 10:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871322#Comment_117871322

Not at all. I was just wondering had I missed something. I think it's widely accepting that she had some facial injuries but further information is sketchy.

10-09-2021 11:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871452#Comment_117871452

Yes these “sightings” and other anonymous letters/witnesses are dealt with in the McGinn report and quite simply, while they may or may not have been made in good faith, they’re impossible to verify. I think there was one letter or statement saying that they witnessed a heated argument between Molloy and Flynn earlier in the day - again very hard to verify these statements or take them as fact - and it’s mainly the fault of the Gardai not interviewing witnesses and members of the wedding party, staff on the day etc-

jmayo · 10-09-2021 11:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117869711#Comment_117869711

Why because it challenges your idiotic idea that only people owed money do the beating up and killing?

You are one of the ones that has to think it was all about illicit affairs, questionable parentage, etc.

Everything doesn't have to be about sex, especially everything involving catholic priests from the 80s or earlier.

It is fact that they were trying to use Fr Molloy and his money to bail out Richard's financial worries.

And AFAIK it was fact that Fr Molloy had contacted solicitor about his business arrangements with T Flynn.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117869980#Comment_117869980

FFS just because he was killed doesn't mean it was premeditated murder.

It wasn't planned.

But it was planned to screw him out of his money, the breakin at his house was planned.

Numerous witness statements atest to fact Fr Molloy had something on his mind in the weeks leading up to that point, he was concerned about something.

It looks like things came to a head the night of the wedding followup and yes drink did probably mean it escalated to the point he was kicked to death.

As someone said how happy would you be to be owed thousands, possibly up to 24,000 (which in those days could buy a decent house in some parts of the country) only to be told they didn't have it and then to turn up and see how lavish a celebration they had laid on.

The Flynns were all fur coat and no knickers.

That would cause even a mild mannered man like Fr Molloy to lose it and complain.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870889#Comment_117870889

You have some major facts wrong there.

Firstly he was from Galway and played for Connacht, big difference there chief.

Secondly it was not a 23 bedroom house, it was a 23 room house.

cap.in.hand. · 10-09-2021 11:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871006#Comment_117871006

The priest would speak about the deceased life and achievements during their lifetime in consultation and on behalf of their family at their funeral mass that time.... but in later times it usually a family member who does it now at the later stages of the funeral mass

Deeec · 10-09-2021 11:59am

The more I look at this I think Fr Molloy realised that weekend that his money was spent on the wedding. A marqee, caterers and free bar would have been an expensive wedding in 1985 - this would have been regarded as lavish. This would have been a real display of status and wealth. The Flynns were pleading the poor mouth, dodging and giving excuses why they couldnt pay him back his money so Fr Molloy went to his solicitor for advice prior to the events. Im sure when he went to the wedding and seen how lavish it was he knew his money was used to pay for it. It triggered off an argument and someone killed him accidently- I think it was probably Theresa. Richard agreed to cover for her.

Whats baffling though is that the house seemed to be quite busy that day and night - Why did so many people stay quiet on the events?

10-09-2021 12:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871678#Comment_117871678

Who pizzed on your cornflakes? Your statements about me and what I’ve said arefull of crap but go have your rant if you get your kicks from it- I can see you’re just gunning for a fight

ernielove · 10-09-2021 12:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871805#Comment_117871805

This scenario sounds very plausible. I read something or heard something to the effect that legal advice was sought in the interim. Who knows then maybe they said 'right you all saw it you all are accessories/joint enterprise if you don't keep schtum we'll take you all down with us'. Political influence probably got them the benign judge and Richard maybe took the blame because he figured that if anyone was fit to do time, he would have been the best candidate.

I will agree however that this is maybe stretching it perhaps.

Turfcutter · 10-09-2021 12:21pm

You could almost picture it. The poor unfortunate priest looking on as Brian Lenihan pours himself a pint (as per a witness statement) and thinking: "Can he just do that?...Is he not even going to pay for it?"

cap.in.hand. · 10-09-2021 1:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871805#Comment_117871805

Richard and Therese daughter was marrying into a very wealthy family..the Parkes of Limerick.... no expense was going to spared by the Flynn's to impress the Limerick contingent arriving to Clara that weekend.

ernielove · 10-09-2021 1:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871915#Comment_117871915

'PAY FOR WHAT?? DONT YOU KNOW WHO I AM?? I HAVENT BOUGHT MYSELF A DRINK SINCE THE CIVIL WAR...'

jmayo · 10-09-2021 1:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871833#Comment_117871833

Jaysus will you relax.

I feel I rightly questioned your assertion that normally only people owed money do the killing.

I even agree with some of your other assertions like fact that the claim it was over who got the drinks in was total bull.

Deeec · 10-09-2021 1:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117872126#Comment_117872126

I agree no expense was spared - the Flynns were out to impress the Parkes and no doubt they did impress them on the day of the wedding. They only problem was the Flynns didnt have the money to spend. In the 80's the brides father would have to pay for the wedding. As someone mentioned earlier they were living way beyond their means. To add to their problems the wedding it would seem needed to be rushed - the couple were married in July and had a baby in December so by the sounds of it the wedding was whats known as a 'shotgun wedding'. Back in 1985 as soon as pregnancy was mentioned the parents would have wanted to get the couple up the aisle and married as soon as possible to avoid scandal. They needed to get money to pay for this as soon as possible to stay respectable and have their pregnant daughter married and used their good friend Fr Nialls money.

10-09-2021 1:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117872164#Comment_117872164

And then you went on to attribute all sorts of bullsh1t theories of sex and affairs to me when I never mentioned either in any of my posts so no I won’t “relax” when you just barge in here spraying your verbal diarrhoea at posters looking for a rise from them

Spencer101 · 10-09-2021 2:04pm

I think they likely got rid of Therese because she was the weak link in the chain if they kept her there. She had been drinking, took a sleeping tablet and was then sedated and so they gambled that if she did say anything it could be discounted. Once she was in hospital they couldn't control who saw her and who spoke to her so she must not have been injured/ obviously injured. I stand corrected on the minor point of which provincial rugby team Richard captained and exactly how big his very large mansion was.

10-09-2021 2:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871678#Comment_117871678

But it was planned to screw him out of his money, the breakin at his house was planned.

is the break in at his house mentioned in the new doc? I haven't had a chance to watch it yet

Sy Kick · 10-09-2021 6:07pm

I hope jmayo and plentyotoole won't be going to the same wedding reception this weekend.

Was it the parkes family that the main fianna fail connections were with?

It would have been a real scandal in those times if a public figure had of been present when this grubby little violence took place.

I would guess that some pressure came to bear and a lot of people were happy that it was a pretty inept investigation.

Talisman · 10-09-2021 7:10pm

Between 2010 and 2012, Gemma O'Doherty uncovered a lot of information that wasn't in the documentary.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/journalists-fight-to-solve-the-murder-of-fr-molloy-28812914.html

Fr Molloy was involved in a business deal with the Flynns and he wanted out of it. He consulted his solicitor about getting his money back, in what was described as an "anxious" visit. In the days before he died, the priest had a black eye. He named the perpetrator to his cousin.

Gemma O'Doherty learnt that the same individual had assaulted the priest, pushing him against a coffee table days before the murder. The perpetrator is still at large.

In another twist, some of Fr Molloy's valuables went missing after he died, including a horse and several paintings.

It is rare for a journalist to achieve what Gemma has: delivering fresh witnesses with key information to a garda investigation that had long ago ran cold. Gemma does not want to "become" the story. She turned the attention instead on another great journalist, the late Veronica Guerin, who was murdered by drug lords in 1996.

Veronica's experiences working on the Fr Molloy story before she died have confirmed to Gemma her own conviction that the case is a bigger story of State failures and complicity of well-connected people.

"At the time she was writing about it, Veronica told the Molloy family that two of her sources in Phoenix Park warned her away from the case and that she was 'walking on thin ice'," said Gemma.

"Veronica was shown the Molloy police file by her underworld source, John Traynor. He came to have it after it was stolen by his associate, Martin Cahill, from the DPP's office in 1987.

"The file contained handwritten letters from the trial judge Frank Roe to the then DPP Eamonn Barnes saying he knew the parties in the case. Two of the judge's former colleagues have confirmed this to be the case, and say Frank Roe, a keen horseman, knew the Flynns and Fr Molloy through fox-hunting circles.

"The week before Veronica was due to publish one of her stories on the case, the Sunday Independent flagged it. Days later, she received the first threat on her life when shots were fired through the window of her home," said Gemma.

cap.in.hand. · 10-09-2021 7:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117873852#Comment_117873852

Interesting about the black eye and pushing him against a coffee table way before main event.... wonder did he report those assaults to gardai.....that would be intimadation...nothing in 1st part of documentary about that...this was over 10 years ago...that culprit could be dead today

silliussoddius · 10-09-2021 9:16pm

Why would Martin Cahill steal the file and how would he know to look for it? I used to follow Gemma's reporting on this and the Mary Boyle case, but she seemed to be stretching things.

Talisman · 10-09-2021 9:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874254#Comment_117874254

In 1987, Martin Cahill stole an entire filling cabinet of files from the DPP. There were 145 files stolen in total.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mystery-of-the-files-that-were-stolen-and-burnt-26692155.html

Here is a more complete story of the stolen file and how it relates to the death of Veronica Guerin.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/how-cahill-tried-to-cash-in-fr-molloy-murder-file-29721923.html

11-09-2021 7:41am

I think it’s generally accepted that he didn’t target that file per se- I believe numerous files were stolen -regardless of number, this happened to be one of them

Turfcutter · 11-09-2021 4:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117873852#Comment_117873852

Unfortunately Gemma O'Doherty's work on this case can't be stood over as being reliable. Even reading the McGinn report you can see where there was hectoring of witnesses by her and browbeating with conspiracy theories. She had also published accounts of happenings that were disputed by the witnesses.

It was a long time back I learned that the Molloy family, having initially welcomed her attention, had been badly burned and wanted nothing more to do with her. Similar to the Mary Boyle case.

The Killing of Fr Niall Molloy

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