Leaving Cert 2021 Grade inflation

The ramifications of the altered grades will have knock on effects for future CAO applicants and for those who chose to defer for a year. The issue of the actual nominal value of the points is academic. However, the fair allocation of CAO places may not be fair in subsequent years (people reapplying for their courses next year). Finally, while this year is a statistical anomaly the numbers of maximal grades awarded and median points is higher year-on-year, and this trend can adversely affect people applying to the CAO from previous cohorts

Fact: I entered as a teenager. I left as an adult in my early 20s. It was a safe space for me to grow up. College was a great and safe space for me to grow.

A previous poster (apologies) labelled courses as Micky Mouse courses. It frustrates me as I do not like anybody’s course belittled. While the skills may not be directly applicable, cross-transferable skills are learned. Of course, these skills can be learned on the job, but in a work context, people are less forgiving of people’s mistakes.

I have people in my family with third-level and others with no third-level. For some, it has impeded their confidence. For others, they couldn’t care less.

I don’t think that people having a couple of years to do a college degree before entering the tough, big bad world is a bad thing, either socially or economically. And I certainly cannot abide the ranking or worthiness of courses. Who is to say that a philosophy grad won’t make good use of the critical thinking skills in another, unrelated field

Don’t get me wrong. I know this. But I’m saying that they aren’t comparable. They will be made comparable with all the ramifications of it but the reality is this years papers are not comparable to other years and thus neither are the points

The UK system has interviews and you can only apply to 4 colleges for medicine. This involves 4 very competitive interviews to be even considered for a course.

You can have the situation where pupils can be sitting in February with no offers therefore no chance of a place regardless of exam performance.

I agree it is a better system for selecting medicine candidates but it is not any easier than purely exam performance. Much more difficult to get a place.

Successful candidate still need nearly max A level results (or (LC) also.

People should be careful what they wish for.

My sympathies to him, but his ire should be directed at the HPAT and the deflation of LC points beyond 550 for medicine entry. 'Medicine in NUIG rose nine points (the equivalent of 45 leaving cert points) to 737, one point more than I achieved.' He's here (somewhat disingenuously) referring to the fact that each five LC points above 550 only counts as one. But HPAT points are unaffected. The reason for the rise in points for medicine is that by hugely increasing the numbers reaching that 550 threshold (from 6% to 15%), medicine places were effectively determined by HPAT score alone. He may have scored in the 80th percentile, but evidently there were not enough places for the top 20% of applicants.

'Now I’m faced with the heavy decision of accepting my 6th choice or taking a gap year to try again.'

This is what we all fear. He will waltz into any medical degree he wants if he applies next year. In fairness to him, he did achieve 6H1s in the exam. But there are questions about just how challenging this years exams were.

There was a big drop in numbers sitting the LC from 1995 to 1996 (without IIRC a reduction in college places) so there might have been a stabilisation or slight reduction in points in 1996. The points for college courses on the CAO site only go back as far as 1998 so I don't know.

The reason for the reduction in LC numbers that year was related to the timing of the introduction of transition years in many schools in the 1990s.

Problem with interviews is that people can be coached what to say. There is an interview course in the U.K. that teaches you to answer “my biggest weakness is that I am very conscientious and as a result not as good at delegation. However, I am completing a professional course in leadership”. Positive->fake negative->positive. Questions are limited. And people quite literally learn off the answers. Naturally, this will favour people that can afford the rigorous interview courses. You will have the grind-schools making more money on interview grinds.

Another issue with this is how small Ireland is. There aren’t that many doctors relative to the population. It will be difficult if a parent is a doctor. Even if no conscious biases exist, there may be unconscious biases.

LC points have been shown with longitudinal data to correlate with results in college and likelihood of completing a third level course. Aptitude tests do not correlate with these variables.

If anything, I think that this year’s fiasco vindicates the traditional LC. If there is a rigorous exam with normal standards, there is more differentiation between the students and this lotto isn’t really an issue. Every year there is stories of people not getting medicine. It is a sought after course with a very limited number of places. Regardless of the system, you will have a group of good students decrying the system because they felt that they should have been awarded a place

One year later and now look where we are. Predictive grades during Covid resulted in points inflation and now that we've gone back to traditional exams, the points "have" to be kept inflated. Numerous issues here including more random selection needed (a travesty for anyone who scores 625 points and loses out) and undermining of the integrity and continuity of the system that many of us knew would happen.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2022/09/01/leaving-cert-grades-to-match-last-years-record-high-results/

"This year’s Leaving Certificate grades will be at least as high as last year’s record-breaking set of results"

"It follows a commitment from Minister for Education Norma Foley that this year’s results will be “no lower” than last year, in a move aimed at winning support among students for a return to in-person exams last June

"This is being achieved by allowing the State Examinations Commission (SEC) to apply a “postmarking intervention”, which will lift all students’ marks, if necessary. Students’ marks will not be lowered if they are above last year’s high grade profile".

Norma Foley asleep at the wheel again.

Random selection for some high points courses is very tough for students.

Leaving Cert turns out to be an absolute steaming pile of shite anyway. There's a multitude of routes into whatever you want to do these days.

3 years since the start of the Covid pandemic, there are still issues with the LC. This was predictable given the undermining of the integrity, consistency and continuity of the system.

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2023/0825/1401593-inflation-foley/

The post marking average adjustment this year is 7.9% - could this result in a situation where someone on 580 points gets boosted to 625 while someone already on 625 gets no boost and loses out if the career that they want needs 625 points and has random selection. Or does the random selection somehow take account of whether the candidate has their grades adjusted post marking.

She is clueless…

but it just goes to show you how poor her leader is that she is let away with it…they just dont see the unfairness of this points giveaway…

yes this generation of teens adore this sort of mollycoddling and associated attention and unfair massive leg up…. 7.9% the average adjustment…. Jeez….that’s significant…

If he bust his behind and worked as hard as he could, then he did.

My daughter got top marks last year, after a year of grinds, tears, stress, late nights, oodles of notes, extra books bought, hours and hours of study, library study hours,Christmas, Easter, the lot, she worked her ass off. Don't let nobody tell me the marks she got last year were not earned.

Let him hold his head high and take credit for his 625.

Even if he went up by 5%(he probably didn't), what he would have gotten is still a great result. So I wouldn't view it as remotely devalued.