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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    Thanks, perhaps the photo is a seperate time to the briquettes story. The dates could be wrong also, but if its listed as January I think an article I read said he was up there with Briquettes around the 27th.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    I've been thinking along the same lines, her past relationship definitely throws up question marks IMO, but she could just as have been completely unaware.

    Is Christopher Thomas the father of her children?

    From the articles I can find, I don't know if the ages of the girls involved in the incidents match up to Jules daughters age.

    Regardless, Jules was in a long term relationship and married to a man who turned out to be a serial paedophile committing some of the worst acts imaginable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    If Ian Bailey did it and Jules knows, I'd imagine the guards would be willing to cut her a deal in order to get their man. I imagine this was offered to her or made clear when she was arrested years ago.

    The guards were willing to pay or bribe their way to getting statements, so I imagine they tried ever trick in the book with Jules.

    She could probably claim living in fear of her life for not coming forward, and if it turned out her partner was a man capable of caving a womans head in with a block im sure the courts would look favourable.

    This all just theory though as obviously IB has never been charged or has a case to answer thus far.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What is the briquettes story? the photo does say january. I don't see anything unusual about a journalist nosing around there.hewas a good journalist and was fishing



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    4 days after the murder its claimed Ian Bailey walked past the police cordon claiming he was delivering briquettes to Alfie Lyons' house.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/murder-and-suspicion-linger-in-west-cork-despite-garda-victory-31118695.html


    "Martin Malone, a local garda who was dispatched to the crime scene, "got a fright" when Ian Bailey, sometime freelance journalist, turned up at 2.20pm. The last time he'd seen Mr Bailey was when his partner, Jules Thomas, had come to the station to withdraw an earlier complaint that he had assaulted her. That day, he observed that Ian Bailey was "very well dressed" in a long coat. He said he didn't ask any questions about the murder victim and "seemed to be acting the part of a journalist". "He departed too quickly and I was suspicious of him," he said in a statement some weeks later.

    Four days later, Martin Malone heard that Ian Bailey was back at the crime scene. He had gone up the lane, past the garda cordon, to Alfie Lyons' house. According to Mr Malone, he had told the garda he had a message for Mr Lyons and mentioned "briquettes". Mr Malone said he was "furious" and "suspicious". He wondered was Ian Bailey trying to compromise the scene? But when he was cross-examined, he agreed that Mr Bailey could have been trying to get information out of Mr Lyons as a journalist.

    That day, he nominated Ian Bailey as a "good suspect" to the incident room that was set up at Bantry Garda Station in the wake of the murder"


    Bear in mind it is a guard giving this statement, and we know too well what they were capable of during this investigation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,398 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The Garda got 'a fright' because someone living in the area walked up to the cordon in broad daylight? Seriously.

    What we he have done if he's seen Bailey in a field? Run into the ditch like the other eejit.

    That's one easily frightened Garda or else not very good at making **** up.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    It's an excellent line of enquiry as Jules would have had ample reason or motivation, however it was never really followed up as many things.

    Like how did Bailey go to Sophie's house? By car? - if a car was heard? How did Bailey know that she was there? Where precisely was Sophie really murdered? If outside, why didn't any of the neighbours hear anything? And why was Sophie's body dumped where it was? In plain sight, to be found the next morning? If the body was dumped behind the bushes, Sophie would not have been found for several days, thus the time of death would even have been more uncertain to determine?

    And if Bailey would have arrived by car, he could have driven Sophie to some site on the cliffs and thrown her into the sea to dispose of the body? One capable of killing could have done that as well?

    What's also scary is that one can be sentenced in France to a lengthy jail time just on hearsay? ( just being out and about at 2 or 3am in the morning doesn't prove anything, also not if he was apparently seen at Kealfadda brige or not ) Also could Bailey have this have overturned in a European court of justice? ( apart from financial aspects ? )



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    Also worth thinking about, was Alfie Lyons Ian Baileys source of information when reporting on the crime?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,150 ✭✭✭Talisman


    That day, he nominated Ian Bailey as a "good suspect" to the incident room that was set up at Bantry Garda Station in the wake of the murder

    This suggests that it only took the gardai 4 days to begin to point their investigation in the direction of Ian Bailey. That coincides with the claims of the gardai asking Marie Farrell to review video footage of Bailey around December 28th.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    Well the "theory" is that he walked there from his house a few KMs away, it was Christmas time and on the coast of West Cork so temperatures were likely freezing. Also if you believe Ian Bailey was the man at Kilfeada Bridge, its the opposite direction of his house.

    A blind man who suffered with insomnia was a neighbour of Sophies and he said he heard a car drive at 3:30AM.

    Again its assumed Sophie was murdered in the spot she was found, I don't believe there was any blood found inside the house or any real signs of struggle. She may perhaps have been strangled or killed somewhere else and then dragged there, which could explain all of the cuts and here clothing being caught in briars, but I don't think there's any real evidence that she was somewhere else that night.

    In fact I think in crime scene photos her keys are pictures in the inside of the door as if she had opened it to go out or let someone in, rather than being outside elsewhere that night. Could the killer have killed her somewhere else and left the keys in the door to make it look like she was opening the door? Perhaps but its a bit farfetched. There was a concrete cinder block dropped on her head to kill her, that would entail the killer killing her somewhere else and bringing her back and then using the block. Seems highly unlikely.


    I'm not sure if Bailey would bother trying to get the last case overturned, but I'd like to think that if he was somehow ever to be extradited to France he would get the benefit of a fresh trial.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,150 ✭✭✭Talisman


    Just listening to Jim Sheridan on the Blindboy podcast - he's quite scathing of Nick Foster and the Netflix documentary. (It's the last 8 minutes of the recording)




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Is Christopher Thomas the father of her children?

    I'm not certain about that. Christopher Charles Doe aka Christopher Thomas. Odd how she kept his surname if that is the case? But perhaps an artist would find it inconvenient to just change a name.




  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    I read on either here or elsewhere that in one of the books about the murder (could be Nick Fosters) its mentioned that he took her name.

    Perhaps to aid covering up a shady past considering what is now known.

    I haven't read the book myself just to be clear.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,332 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Yes that's a good point; she probably would not have had to make the initial approach about cutting a deal. And the guards likely made clear to her that the offer would stand if at any point in the subsequent years she decided to 'come clean'.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The problem is that all we have are possible theories, deductions and assumptions because the Guards failed in their job. We can only assume to a certain degree that Sophie opened the door to her house to somebody she knew, or thought she knew.

    At this point I don't even believe Ian Bailey did it. There is no evidence linking him to the crime, not even a motive. It would see things differently if there was evidence connecting him with the murder. Same as the court case in France. If we're convicting somebody of murder for 25 years, we would still like to see some evidence.

    I would never have ruled out Sophie's husband in France that quickly, their unhappy marriage and the possibility of a contract killing. Sophie was at last on one occasion unfaithful to her husband, - that's at least known. Sophie's husband would have benefited from the murder financially, - it would have saved him a messy and expensive divorce.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,693 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "In fact I think in crime scene photos her keys are pictures in the inside of the door as if she had opened it to go out or let someone in, rather than being outside elsewhere that night." 



    The keys are in the front door , the one with the letterbox,

    I believe it was rarely used as it was not easily accessible from the car parking area.

    The blood stain was on the back door, where it is believed the attack started.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes, Chris Thomas is the father of her first 2 children, and yes he's a convicted paedophile. Michael Oliver is the father of her youngest daughter and he did time for assaulting none other than.....

    BILL FULLER.

    You're welcome.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,332 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    And why was Sophie's body dumped where it was? In plain sight, to be found the next morning? If the body was dumped behind the bushes, Sophie would not have been found for several days, thus the time of death would even have been more uncertain to determine?

    Anyone got any suggestions on this? To me the only plausible answer is the muder was committed in such a state of frenzy the killer was incapable of thinking straight about any sort of coverup.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    This would point to the idea that the murder wasn't planned. It would also point to Bailey, even though that's more my personal deduction. But if the murder was committed in such a frenzy as you described, the lack of evidence is also noteworthy. Could Bailey really have cleared all the evidence away, leaving nothing behind, in the state he would have been in, and that in the dead of night? I honestly don't know.... Do we know if Bailey drank alcohol earlier that evening? Was that question ever asked? We know he was a heavy drinker at times...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    Was the gate Sophies body was found at the gate that her and Alfie Lyons used to argue about?

    I notice its open in the crime scene photos, was it found that way?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,398 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Well, they seemed to dispose of some of the objects \ weapons used in the assault; not the concrete block but that doesn't retain fingerprints.

    Maybe they were worried if they tried to move the body, there would be too much forensics transfer.

    Maybe something spooked them before they had a chance to think about dumping the body, and they fled the scene.

    Or, they didn't care about obscuring the time of death, because they already had their alibi \ cover story lined up, for whatever reason brought them to the house.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,332 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    But if we're attributing the failure to make any effort to conceal the body to the killer being in a state of frenzy I don't think it's reasonable to envisage the same person conducting a lengthy and meticulous forensic cleanup. So I guess we have to attribute the dearth of any forensic evidence to shortcomings in the investigation and sheer chance.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Has no one noticed something about that photo with IB going up to the house???

    THE FECKING GATE IS THERE.

    Did they replace it that quickly???



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    It does seem a little out of place that the keys were in the lock on the inside of a door that was rarely used.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    She escaped the initial attack and ran down there. The killer was chasing her. He caught her there because she got snagged on the wire. It was in the moonlight. To pick up the body which was tightly snagged on the wire would cover the perpetrator in blood. The killer fled.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,693 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    If you compare the two photos above it's obvious the 2nd on is taken quite some time after the first.

    The ditches have all been cut back, the gate has been changed, the pier and post box on the left of the gate has been repaired.

    I would guess mid to late Jan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭DivilsAdvocate


    So either the French publication is wrong about the January date or the bushes were completely destroyed and things were repaired and fixed.

    Seems pretty weird considering the investigation was only beginning? Would the gardai have cut down the bushes looking for evidence? Seems strange.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭FishOnABike



    Or possibly that it did not go as planned.

    Without any evidence linking someone to the scene I don't see how it could point to anyone in particular.

    If it was a frenzied attack either the attacker was very lucky or the gardaí incompetent that no evidence that could be linked to the attacker was found. It is also possible the attack was brutal but methodical. I wouldn't assume one to the exclusion of the other.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,693 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    The ditches were cut back by the Gardai in the days after the murder looking for evidence .

    It appears Bailey was up to the house en route to Alfie's 4 days after the murder. (briquettes I think)

    This photo was taken much later-weeks after the murder.



This discussion has been closed.
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