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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭lintdrummer


    Intriguing. What's your source for this? Is the content of the interview already known in West Cork?

    I'll definitely be tuning in tomorrow night regardless but your doing great promo work for Virgin Media 🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,693 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    I don't know where he lived.

    I don't think he owned the land the horses grazed on,

    I believe Sophie allowed them to graze the horses on her commonage.

    Leo and his partner wanted to buy some land from her and she refused.

    She had about 13 acres in all spread over 7 or 8 small sites around the area.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No it isn't. That's the thing with open cases I guess. Always learning new things!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Does anybody know, is the VM interview also intended for somebody who knows something to come forward?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I highly doubt Bailey will make any sugnificant accusations or revelations tomorrow night. Will tune in and hope to be proven wrong however.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Do we know how much money exchanges hands? I mean Bailey won't do it for free.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Irrespective of whether he does or not, only the most naive or biased posters believe the gards have no skin in this game. There is incompetence here on a vast scale or more likely corruption and a coverup. Any other country in Europe & there would be a serious investigation/enquiry into how this case was handled & police disciplined, suspended or prosecuted. Here we have the toothless & pointless GSOC. Lets look at the valid reasons why people think the gards were corrupt in this case.

    1) Lost gate and bottle of wine although they are saying now that they destroyed them both. Highly significant & key pieces of evidence. If anything, why destroy them, they've nothing to lose by keeping them.

    2) Bribed witnesses with the promise of removing charges, reduced charges or suspended sentences as in the case of Leo Bolger. Inconceivable for the crime he committed, he gets off with a suspended sentence.

    3) Threatened witnesses if they didnt co-operate with the investigation about Bailey.

    4) Co-erced witnesses with drugs, money & whatever they wanted to paint Bailey as the culprit. They also removed such of these things from the evidence room in the garda stations.

    5) Refused to remove the body to Cork general hospital as per the state pathologists request. A highly unusual move even in the eyes of the majority of gards outside of Cork.

    7) Didnt find a shred of DNA evidence outside of Sophies own DNA. Really? One of the most savage recent crimes in Irish history and not one shred of DNA evidence. And to top it off, Bailey willingly gave his. Such a sign of Guilt eh?

    8) Didnt want to consider any other possible suspects or theories after a relatively short period of time. Instead focusing their time on painting Bailey as the murderer.

    9) Fabricated statements from Jules Thomas to try and paint Bailey as the murderer. Arrested her without any reasonable cause and managed to worm there way out of being sued for this because of the statute of limitations (6 years)

    10) Refused to testify/back up their lies in the French court case even though they handed them all the corrupt documentation in relation to the case.

    11) Spread false rumours about Bailey for a number of years around the local area in the hope people would believe them or possibly seek favour with the gards by going against him.

    12) The majority of them refused to co-operate with the GSOC enquiry in relation to the crime.

    The list goes on and on. Its ridicilous, I could be hear half the night.

    There are some posters on this thread who like to call other peoples theories fantasy's or extremely unlikely. The only fantasy here is that they believe that the gards didnt cover up this crime. A bit rich they are calling other peoples theories fantasies or ridiculous.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    I think it was someone she knew very well.

    The wine in the carrier bag from the shop she bought in France days earlier.

    Why would it end up down by the driveway?

    Maybe she gave it to her killer as a Christmas present.

    He thought it meant something more than she did.

    He made advances toward her, she rejected him.

    He got very angry, flew into a rage and attacked her.

    She fled, but he caught her just before she got to the gate and killed her.

    She had broken fingers and her face was disfigured by the brutal attack.

    This was a very personable attack and not premeditated.

    Items used in the attack where opportunistically located there.

    This was a man who had feelings for Sophie but, this feelings where not returned by her.

    A local man who knew Sophie very well.

    Post edited by MonkieSocks on

    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Its never been confirmed if she herself bought this wine or not. Its highly unlikely, why would she fling her own wine into a ditch or why would the killer fling her wine into the ditch potentially incriminating himself. It points to the killer having bought this wine already in a bid to impress her because it wasn't cheap & would explain why he tried to get rid of it.

    It didn't end up down the driveway either, it wasn't far from the house but it wast close either. It's significance is that this type of wine was not common in Ireland, it was thrown away in a ditch (why would anyone throw an expensive bottle of wine away) , the gards destroyed it & never properly investigated it, on top of this, its clear as day Sophie liked her wine & I'm sure good wine at that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    The wine was in a bag with french writing on it, pictures were linked earlier in this thread.

    It was from a shop in France.

    I don't think the killer bought it for her.

    He dropped it during the chase as he ran and struggled with her.

    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭CowgirlBoots


    Lol....and the cow jumped over the moon. It was a full moon that night wasn't it? (No reference to your screen name intended)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    The pictures didnt show what type of wine it was. The wine was in a bag, how is anyone meant to know what type of wine was in that bag even if there was any besides the gards



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    A French wine bottle found four months after the murder in a field next to the scene;

    source; https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30859712.html

    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Also speaking to this paper, Mr Bailey’s solicitor, Frank Buttimer, said: “The reality of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission as an organisation is that it is powerless, in any meaningful way, to carry out any form of proper investigation into garda corruption.

    “I believe it was never intended to be properly resourced or to have proper investigative powers. Accordingly, nothing in the report is anything other than as expected. The lack of any meaningful outcome in the report will not deter Mr Bailey from continuing to seek whatever remedies are available to vindicate his position.”

    In the report, GSOC says its deliberations had been hampered by the refusal of a number of garda detectives involved in the case to co-operate with them and the fact that some of the gardaí who investigated the murder have since retired or died.

    Look at this, good points from buttimer, how on earth can we have a fair and equitable justice system when the body tasked with making sure the gards do their job was never even intended to have proper investigative powers. An absolute joke



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭oceanman


    anyone know what time the interview tonight is on VM?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,150 ✭✭✭Talisman


    I came across this article from 2018, it's not related to the case directly but I found the bit highlighted below interesting.

    In 1982, a man called Peter Matthews met a violent death in custody in Shercock Garda Station, Co Cavan. In 1984, when the courts ruled that no garda could be found responsible, public faith in the force, already drained by the Kerry Babies travesty, hit a new low.

    Future Presidents Mary Robinson and Michael D Higgins backed a Criminal Justice Bill amendment that would prevent gardaí bullying false statements out of witnesses, and any repetition of the Shercock death, but the government voted down the safeguard.




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,460 ✭✭✭shinzon


    Wouldn't be jumping up and down about a bombshell revelation just saw a bit of the Bailey interview on the VM News, he just reiterates he thinks the person who killed Sophie is now dead

    Shin



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,693 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    9pm. VM1

    Clashes with "Ready to mingle" I'm afraid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    This bottle of wine is another mystery. How far from the house and the scene of the murder was the bottle found? It would at least give us an idea of the possible radius of the struggle between the victim and the murderer? Were there any checks of fingerprints on the bottle? Also where in France was the bottle from? Was this wine also available in Ireland? French supermarkets can be very regional, in what they offer. If the murderer brought the bottle and we know what kind of wine and from which winery, it may give us another indication.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,150 ✭✭✭Talisman


    The bottle of wine was found in the field beside Sophie's property.



  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭sekiro


    Regardless of anything else I really just think Bailey is a disgusting human being.

    What could he possibly provide in any interview with the media? He knows nothing about the case, right?

    It's all about self-promotion and no doubt a bit of money too.

    He has every right to expose Garda misconduct and to talk about it in public. Speculating on who did the murder etc seems out of order to me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I'd say most people would find Bailey disgusting and would also describe his personality as difficult.

    But that doesn't automatically make him a suspect or a murderer, especially with no evidence and so much police corruption and a questionable trial in France.

    Sure, money will exchange hands tonight, for the VM interview. We don't know how much, we can only guess.

    I would guess that he would provide a theory in the interview. Most likely it will be a theory or variation of that we have already speculated about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,016 ✭✭✭happyoutscan


    How was the bottle of wine not discovered during the initial search for evidence (if there even was one)?

    Also, is it possible the wine ended up there a few weeks after her death through other means?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,332 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Well he's a journalist who has written extensively about the case, I guess he's more likely than most to have an informed opinion.

    And if he didn't do it himself he's as likely as Jim or Michael Sheridan to come up with a plausible alternative theory.



  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭sekiro


    Something that always stuck with me is that throughout her changing story she always stuck with a few key points.

    She saw someone suspicious outside the shop. There was someone in the car with her. She drove past a suspicious person down by the bridge.

    She has never really changed from that basic narrative even though at the time of claiming the police forced her to make it all up she would have been able to just say "it has all been a lie, I was in bed the whole time but I just wanted to be involved and to help the Garda".

    My personal opinion on that is that she was in the car with someone else and she couldn't lie about that as there would always be the possibility that this person would come forward or someone related to them would come forward. For the Garda it would be convenient if this person was never found as they could very easily end up saying "yes, we were in the car and we saw someone but it wasn't Bailey". A large part of the case against IB relies on him being at the bridge. The Garda influence on MF seems to have been to insist that the person she saw that night was IB.

    This "mystery man" aspect of the case is just so disturbing and bizarre. From her absolute stubbornness in not naming this person, or at least not admitting that there was no 2nd witness at all, to the Garda's inability to extract this information from her. You have a lady all but admitting that she has vital information in a murder case and knowledge of an additional witness and yet it's just allowed to sit there. Like, oh, we just couldn't find the passenger, you know, just can't get that information for some reason and just letting her keep that secret. It's just sits there like a really troubling elephant in the room. Who the hell is that passenger and why were they never identified and questioned?

    I would say that Bailey is the number one suspect. Of course. As his "alibi" develops through the case to "oh actually I did get out of bed and I did leave the house and I did have scratches and a cut on my head but it's all a coincidence and there's an explanation for it all" he just looks like a more and more likely suspect.

    HOWEVER, there was another man in the area. Driving around in a car. Near the scene of the crime. At around the assumed time of the crime. What's this? The identity of that person has remained a secret? That's really, really, so convenient. That person never came forward despite the case being national news? That person never contacted or saw MF ever again and so never discussed the case? MF manages to weasel out of naming this person again and again. Even going so far as to name other people to throw the Garda off the trail. What is that all about? Now, of course, that individual is supposedly dead and gone. Still unnamed.

    I wonder if that person even exists? If they do I wonder if they ever talked to anyone about that time when they actually had been driving around the area on the night of Ireland's highest profile murder mystery. Just never ever brought it up, I suppose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭sekiro


    That's the problem, isn't it? I mean her family came over after her death and maybe there was drinking at the cottage. It would have been a sad and horrible time for anyone showing up there in relation to her death. Easy to imagine how someone would bring booze and how things could just get discarded.

    The investigation of this murder was sloppy, to say the least, probably the biggest contributing factor in the case not being solved comes down to Garda incompetence.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I think after so many years it's very very hard to figure out what really happened that night. There is also too much police corruption and incompetence involved, lost evidence, etc..., to ever really get a clear picture on this.

    The only thing Bailey can do at this point is to clear his name, and possibly get the court ruling in France overturned.

    Other than that this case will always be with a high speculative element. The only thing one can do at this point is some form of profiling or some forme of motive hunting. In terms of likelihood, motive I can only see three options:

    1) Sophie seen or noticed something she shouldn't regarding drugs, involved the police, and triggered everything else. If a local Guard did it who was in it, or Alfie, or somebody else in that drug operation is all speculation. Within that drug ring ist's also possible that they coerced one member to do the "dirty work" for the rest? Motive for killing was to shut her up, and send a message hence the brutality of the killing.

    2) Some relationship, marriage/divorce or other sexual matter, possibly involving a contract killer. Motive was anything from avoiding a financially costly and media-public divorce or simply jealousy or a rejected lover in a heated argument.

    3) Bailey did it himself, but for what motive? Just to write newspaper articles and be in the center of journalistic attention? To blow off steam after a night out in the pub? And be the first to volunteer DNA and hair samples?



This discussion has been closed.
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