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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭almostover


    Great post. This alone shows how much of a farce the French trial was. MFs initial witness testimony of seeing IB at the bridge was accepted and no scrutiny was put on the fact she was accompanied by another witness in the car who could corroborate or refute her account. It's a case of willful ignorance by the French judicial system and our Gardai. If IB ever went to trial for this murder any decent defence solicitor would make hay on this point. There was a second witness to the sighting at KF bridge and the Gardai made a pitiful attempt to find out who that person is and to question them as to their account of the IB sighting at KF bridge. Not to mention the fact that person was a man, potentially possessing the physical strength to have murdered STDP in such a fashion, and was in the vicinity of the murder scene at the time of the murder. He should have been questioned immediately to at least rule him out as a suspect. It stinks to high heaven.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe



    Just for the exercise, suppose Ian Bailey did it, how would it have worked:

    1) He and Jules drove home from the night out in the pub, after drinking. How much he had to drink, we don't know. They live at Lissacaha North, I believe Jules lives there to date.

    2) Ian got up in the night, maybe one hour after they both went to get, to go out, apparently to his studio.

    3) Ian decides to hike to Sophie's house either to confront her with something, or to kill her, ( I guess that's and around 4km hike )

    4) After the killing Ian hikes to Kealfadda Bridge, to wash up a bit, get blood of his hands? ( I guess that's as well something around a 3km hike )

    ( Ian didn't use a car, if a "witness" like Farell is to be believed, as there was only a man on the roadside, not a car )

    5) After that, Ian returns from Kealfadda Bridge to Jule's house ( I guess that's a 5 km hike )

    Under the guise of a long darkness, let's consider it was December and daylight would come around 9am only, this would have to have been quite a sports exercise for Bailey. Overall for Bailey it would have to have been a 3 hour hike all summed up, and that, after a few drinks, or a few too many. It's not impossible to do. Part of that hike would have been done in blood stained clothes, with constant fear of being seen that way. Upon the return, his blood stained clothes would have to have been disposed of, and that hidden from Jules or her daughters.

    All summed up, for murdering Sophie I'd say, Bailey would have needed 4 hours, maybe a bit more than that, to complete the "job" and that with considerable alcohol level and that all, with a motive which we don't know exactly, a motive which is quite possibly rather weak.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    I don't really follow the logic on this, it seems bizarrely inconsistent to say nothing she said in her original statements can be taken at face value, or should be completely discounted, because she later claimed she was coerced into making them. But it's then suggested that she should have been coerced into revealing the man's identity, and that would have been ok?

    At the end of the day she was threatened with contempt of court and possible jail time if she did not reveal who the man was by Judge Hedigan during the High Court case, it seems to be generally accepted she gave a false name on that occasion. What more could have been done, short of torture or hypnosis/mind control?

    I've said it before, if she had been charged with perverting the course of justice or something, then any potential prosecution for the murder would have lost not just one but both vital witnesses from the night of the murder.



  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭sekiro


    The drug angle is one that I would keep coming back to. With the shocking level of violence in this case I genuinely wonder if that isn't characteristic of burglary/robbery and drug related violence? Seems like it could be but I don't know of any research showing anything like that.

    The other thing would be understanding the situation regarding drugs in Ireland in the 1990s. Regardless of what we personally believe now what was the actual reality of drugs and drug related crime in an area like that in 1996? Would possession alone be enough for a prison sentence? Various other questions surrounding that. In 2021 your neighbour taking a bit of a huff because you are smoking weed in the garden can be shrugged off, no bother. In 1996? I don't know. In 1996 would a neighbour or local resident going to the Grada about drug use and/or dealing be a really big deal or not?

    In the West Cork podcast a small mention is made about drug use and artists and whatnot all over the area. I wonder how much money was potentially changing hands out there and what kind of trouble a moany neighbor might actually cause? Sophie potentially having grievances with others in the area is always hinted at but never truly explored to any great degree.

    I find it difficult to get a good grasp of what life would really be like out there in 1996 specifically. We always seem to think of it in the context of our current time. Maybe people in 2021 would dismiss a neighbour complaining about weed because really nobody cares all that much. In 1996? Would the law be coming down hard on people caught trafficking or in possession of drugs?

    The level of violence is so disturbing and the fact that there is not even a real effort to hide evidence maybe implies someone arriving there to specifically do this and then to leave? Or would someone like Bailey know that once he had killed her then sticking around would probably just leave even more evidence.

    Again, investigators didn't really help with how they initially dealt with the crime scene.



  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭champchamp


    But her evidence is useless now, so imo she should be charged and see what comes out of it when she knows real jail time is a possibility.

    Why not just come out and state the truth now, no matter how fanciful it is, what has she got to lose at this stage?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭sekiro


    You'd think they'd at least be able to investigate her and her life thoroughly enough to establish who this person might be or to at least put pressure on here to tell them before the information got out there.

    Sorry, I am not a professional writer or anything so really my posting is just poor stream of consciousness stuff.

    At the end of the day it's a part of her story that she always stuck to. She was out that night driving around (presumably this was corroborated by her husband at least?) in the area with a person in the vehicle who hasn't just not been named but who has actually been deliberately hidden.

    It seems so unbelievable, really, someone is murdered and we have a witness saying "oh myself and my friend were around there at the approximate time of the murder". OK. So who is the friend? "Oh no I couldn't possibly tell you who that is".

    It's wild to me that this person would not be a major person of interest. Yet somehow in this region/community where supposedly "everyone knows everyone else's business" nobody was able to establish who MF might potentially be hanging out with? It stinks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,155 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    No the wine wasn't available in Ireland. Only in France and some duty free?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,693 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    deleted,...shite site

    Post edited by chooseusername on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,693 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "Like, oh, we just couldn't find the passenger, you know, just can't get that information for some reason and just letting her keep that secret. It's just sits there like a really troubling elephant in the room. Who the hell is that passenger and why were they never identified and questioned?"

    The thing is , her companion was not a passenger in her van,

    he was the driver of his own car, she was the passenger, around the area on that night;

    Where did he go after dropping her back to her van at 4am.?




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    It seems so unbelievable, really, someone is murdered and we have a witness saying "oh myself and my friend were around there at the approximate time of the murder". OK. So who is the friend? "Oh no I couldn't possibly tell you who that is".

    It is bizarre that there would seem to have been a number of unknown or unaccounted people in the area which must cast serious doubt on any one theory as to what actually transpired yet French courts could convict someone with no evidence linking them to the crime or crime scene.

    The murder could have been hours earlier or later than Marie Farrell claimed to be at Ballyrisode / Kealfada Bridge with her mystrey friend.

    It doesn't help that the time of death could have been almost any time within a roughly ten hour window. Anyone could have driven the length of the country and most of the way back in that time.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Toscan du Plantier as well as her husband were very well known in France, celebrities, I should say. As written before the outcome of the trial was to please the Toscan du Plantier family. The judge must have been very biased. I don't however think, that money talked here, but celebrity status certainly had an influence.

    I don't think that the result of the trial could have stood a chance if it was challenged in the EU court of justice. Maybe Bailey didn't have the money to pay another solicitor. I don't know. But passing a long jail sentence without evidence is certainly not going to go stand up in any decent court.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In sheridan doc she said she was driving and drove the same route with JS. https://streamable.com/a99oct Just shows she is a liar



  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭sekiro


    Wow. That makes it worse, really.

    So we pretty much know then that there was some other guy driving around in the area on that night and efforts have been made to conceal the identity of that person.

    Unless MF is lying about the whole thing. If that were true though then why not just retract the entire story? Just say she made it all up. The part about being driven around by a mystery person, and the efforts to hide that persons identity, remains for whatever reason.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Reading that statement again it seems even less likely that if Marie Farrell saw anyone at Kealfadda Bridge that it could have been Ian Bailey.

    The person she saw was staggering towards Goleen. So not only would the person have been taking a much longer, more trafficked road from Sophie's house by going via Kealfadda Bridge, they were heading in the opposite direction entirely!

    In the five minutes or so it would have taken to drive to Toormore and turn back towards Goleen the person seems to have disappeared - Marie Farrell makes no mention of seeing him when she and her mystrey man were driving from Toormore to Goleen.

    The the most plausible explanation is that this pedestrian either turned off the Toormore to Goleen road towards Ballyrisode beach or went into one of the houses along the road. There's nothing to suggest this pedestrian had anything to do with the murder either. It could just as easily have been someone stumbling home after a party.

    She described the pedestrian as stumbling, with his two hands to the side of his face. How much of his face could she have seen, passing by in a car? She didn't recognise Ian Bailey in the video Garda Kelleher brought her to his house to see. A video which featured Ian Bailey. Yet weeks later in her statement, which lacked any detailed description of the pedestrian, said she now knew it to be Ian Bailey. It's absolute nonsense!

    If it wasn't such a serious matter the whole affair would appear to be a complete farcical comedy of errors.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,693 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    A good memory is essential if you want to get away with lies, especially over a 25 year period.

    I'm convinced she was not abroad at all that night.

    The lie was to cover up for someone, or something.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭lintdrummer


    I was just about to post this. In the same clip she says she doesn't know that the road from the bridge goes up to Sophie's house. Pull the other one Marie.

    Can't trust a single word she says. Her story is so nonsensical you would have to question if she ever left her house at all that night. I mean, why would they be driving up and down that stretch of road at that hour of the night anyway? She says they drove it multiple times?

    Has her husband, Chris, ever verified that she actually did go out that night?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭Deeec


    MF has lied and lied and lied over the years - nothing she says can be believed. Chris has said nothing on this over the years. It wouldnt surprise me if the gardai never even spoke to him. There are not many men out there that would stand by their wife given she admitted so publicly to have been out with another man. Chris has a few assault charges to his name over the years so that tells me hes not mild mannered so Why has he stood by his wife? Its either he knows she was'nt out with another man or he was the man in the car with her.



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven




  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    You forget MoonUnit is the Lord High Executioner of Ireland and you must defer.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭sekiro


    There is some cover up of something going on but it's not really clear what that could be.

    It could be as simple as Garda being convinced that Bailey is the murderer and making stuff up to ensure that they get him convicted. I mean, we actively see this with the French investigation where they barely even try to hide the fact that the goal is to just find the guy guilty and get it over with. So why wouldn't the Garda at the time be thinking similar?

    The timeline for MF is just strange.

    She's in Cork City on the 11th of January and for some reason decides, using an alias, to call the Garda and say that she saw a man at Kealfadda Bridge at 3am on the night of the murder. This almost a full 3 weeks after the murder.

    This call prompts the Garda to make an appeal on January 20th for this woman to come forward.

    She calls them again on January 21st from Leap.

    She calls them again on January 24th but for some reason does this one from home and so they can trace her. From this point her testimony develops into a story that it was IB that she saw down by the bridge.

    Almost 7 years later she retracts the statements that the man she saws was IB but does not retract that she saw a man down by the bridge, that she was being driven around there by someone at 3am etc etc.


    It's strange. I feel like if I were the guy driving that car I'd be in touch with her as soon as possible. Obviously the technology of the time would mean I might not be able to get a hold of her right away buy you'd assume that conversation would be along the lines of "oh sh!t, Marie, we were driving around out there on the night that woman was murdered." Is that why she eventually called the police to make the report?

    I genuinely wonder what must have motivated her to make that call in the first place. Did she have that image of some strange man out by the bridge in the middle of the night in her head waiting for an opportunity to be in Cork so she could take a moment to make the call. I wonder why after making two calls in locations quite far from home she decided to call from her own house the 3rd and final time, nearly 5 weeks after the murder.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe



    The thing is, it doesn't really matter who this man was that Marie Farrell had apparently either seen or not seen at Kealfadda Bridge at 3am that morning. Kealfadda Bridge is neither the crime scene, nor does it mean that that man was the murderer or even could have been the murderer. Any of us could have been at Kealfadda Bridge at 3am, would we all be suspect then? I'd say Kealfadda Bridge is around a little more than 3km away from Sophie's house.

    And even if it really was supposed to mean something, wouldn't it have been up to a judge to question Marie Farrell how to recognize a man in darkness at 3am at night? How could she have been so sure? I'd say any of us would have looked similar to any driver passing by wearing a dark coat at 3am on Kealfadda Bridge that night.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Exactly. But also the fact she got away with lying about his name several times tells me she was either put up to it by the Gards and it didn't happen, or he was a gard.

    I'm sorry, but how the hell did she get away with never correctly naming this supposed co-star witness???

    Utter madness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I think that's why she withdrew her statement? Because she was put up to it by the Guards and had enough?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    If she was 'put up to it' by the gardai, why were they saying on the Bandon Tapes that there was a major problem with her statement, in that she wasn't saying who she was with? They had no idea they were being taped so the conversation makes no sense if the gardai were in on some scheme to invent the story.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    If she was there herself, and if she did see a man, this man has not been eliminated and has not come forward. That's a big red flag, if she is telling the truth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    I can't keep up, just a week ago I was 'Nick Foster'. I have suspicions of two posters on boards that might be gardai and there seems to be a few that post on legal stuff, as far as I can see none want to touch this topic with a barge pole and I don't blame them!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Like alot of the utter madness of many of the other actions the gards took in this investigation. Who was the guy in the car with her that night, if she wasnt willing to name him, she should have been imprisoned, simple as that and she seemed willing to risk that. Now, one would ask, why would someone be willing to risk imprisonment over protecting the identity of another in a case as serious as this. Nine times out of ten its because they are intimidated by that person & that person is in a position of authority & can do great damage to them and their family. Her husband was up on an assault charges and conveniently this was forgotten about. A senior gard in the area fits the bill perfectly again especially if Marie Farrells husband was up for an assualt charge. Also, to say she is still petrified of the gards is an understatement. She certainly wouldn't have been covering for the average joe soap like this.

    For people ruling out the theory that a senior gard committed this crime. Look at the damage this would have done to An Garda Siochana had this come out, it would have destroyed what is already a poor reputation. There was a clear motive for covering up for one of their own if he committed the murder. There would have been serious repercussions for them otherwise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭drumm23




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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭Deeec


    I wonder why they dont want to touch this topic with a barge pole hmmmm



This discussion has been closed.
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