Mayo GAA Discussion

Wouldn't say Tyrone won in 2nd gear but they won without hitting 5th anyway. Conor McKenna was very poor I thought but they had a very good bench coming in in fairness.

Neutral view here (although I was rooting for Mayo, can't begrudge Tyrone that AI either - they had by far the hardest route of anyone in this or recent years to win that out). I wouldn't lay the blame at AOS at all, I think everyone is latching on to the stat about not scoring in a final. Whilst it is a poor one, didn't think he was awful on Saturday.

Your midfield was completely steamrolled. Was it Loftus that missed the open goal on the rebound in the 1st half? Brilliant defending but you got to bury that.

Hennelly wasn't great for the first goal but awful for the second, completely caught in no man's land, was never getting to that ball in, should have stayed on the line. Also missed 2 of 3 long range frees I think.

Well said and agreed there is something not great at the heart of Mayo GAA as we've seen numerous times over the years. Ego has a lot to do with it. Being in a position to get tickets for games is also a major part of it.

Personally I think we missed an opportunity with Kevin McStay a few years ago. The fact that the players dictated they didn't like him and/or his coach says it all, ie calling the shots despite not having won anything of substance.

Certain high profile players like Horan because Horan won't drop them. Maybe time for an outside manager or at the very least like you say a manager without favourites.

Agreed. This "Culture nonsense" is just that - nonsense.

Especially coming from Brolly. Would love to have read the article he had pre prepared had Mayo won.

All of these hindsight merchants are the same - full of guff.

There are so many variables in a 70 plus minute match - culture doesn't come into it at all - tis pure nonsense.

Well every county seems to have a core ethos that doesn't change very much. Kerry for example value forward over all else and defense often costs them especially recently. As long as Ive followed Mayo football and I go back to early 80s, Mayo have produced very good defenders but always seemed to lack uninhibited forwards. It was Tyrones superior shooting that won the game. Our half backs are better shooters than our forwards. I don't know for sure that this is down to culture at development level but I suspect it is. Mayo seem to value S+C over skill.

What is culture though? I don't think "not training basic skills" - which is a nonsense anyway, is in any way linked to the type of culture Brolly was trying to talk about.

Look, if these lads weren't taught basic skills they wouldn't have made two all ireland finals. It's that simple.

Is it a "pressure" thing? Is the weight of expectation too much on these shoulders? It's much more likely be a mental thing, than a physical/cultural/ skill based issue at this point.

This is a fantastic post. I'd nearly print it off frame it and hang it on the wall. Thank you, genuinely.

High performance culture...Like Limerick hurlers have, Dublin footballers had and Tyrone have also managed to attain.

It means 3 or 4 players fighting for every position, no sacred cows or undroppable players, if you aren't good enough this year you are dropped to the bench or retired, no matter how many All Stars or All-Ireland medals you have in your back pocket. One of the reasons why Dublin won 8 AIs in ten years and why Limerick won 3 in 4. That kind of culture. Basically if you aren't good enough, you're dropped, no sentiment, no favourites, good luck to you and bring up the next guy.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg from a culture point of view. There is also tactics, match analysis (of which there seems to have been none done on Tyrone and their kickout strategy in particular).

But can you name the players that will take the places of these "undroppable " players once they are dropped. What wonderkid is missing out?

In terms of forwards, Darren Coen should have been on much earlier which means taking off one of the "undroppables".

There was plenty more examples. Our three half forwards never got into the game, it passed them by mostly. Now if they can't make an impact, their legs are gone and they can't score, what on earth are they doing on the field? At most they are impact players if even.

Couldn't take anyone off from midfield because we have no midfielders I know of on the subs bench. Which is damning.

There is a story behind Dublin this year.

They were poor. Ok they lost some of their great players over the last couple of years, but all was definitely not happy in the camp.

I wouldn't call into question the desire, the dedication, the bottle of any of the Mayo team or backroom team.

Horan has created a brilliant ethos, he brought on so many players in his time.

He has reached so many finals over the years so he has to be doing something right.

Maybe he has overachieved in some ways.

But he has also failed and failed big time when it counted.

A lot of people are slagging off AOS, claiming he is more interested in self promotion or whatever.

I don't think that at all, I just think he is too slow, can't kick well at all, hasn't the softhands of someone like Donaghy and sometimes confuses things.

And yes due to his size he never got the referees protection that he should have gotten which also never helps him.

Football has changed a lot, he has gotten older and the miles are showing.

Someone said earlier that maybe he was left on in the hope he might do something.

If that is true then it is bad management.

You can't afford to do that.

A great manager spots when things are going wrong and tries to remedy it, not adopts a wait and see approach and living in hope.

Dublin won 8 AI finals in a row they played in, 9 if you include 95. That's 100% record in 9 straight finals. So yes they definitely can teach us a thing or two about winning.

The poster was talking about "Culture" being key at Dublin and something we don't have.

I disagreed.

Yeah, they know how to win but can you put it all down to "culture" (needs to be defined) - if it's "Culture" that sets us apart why lose to use this year?

This "culture" thing is nonsense.

But this is the thing.

There are so many variables on a match day that the manager or indeed players cannot control.

You simply cannot say we don't have the desire or hunger, or to a point "winning mentality" - we win 90 percent of games we've played in the championship the past two years.

If you cannot define what culture is, how do you change it?

I don't know what the consistent issue we've had with AI finals in my lifetime but it hasn't be the same for every one of those games.

Great teams and players reduce the variables.

Which means they foresee and cut out variables and mistakes before they arise.

That joe Brolly is an awful clown. Got caught out telling a full lie about mdma forgetting his boots on all Ireland final day and pat gilroy having to give him his. Proven to be absolute bullshit story but he’s allowed to continue writing for the sindo. Shows you what makes a barrister himself and Michelle de Bruin,pair of ****

Why?. Is he supposed to skip out on some opportunities because he doesn’t have a medal?. If there are people willing to pay him for this, why should he not take it to supplement his income?.

he gives up enough time and sacrifice - why not make something from it?.

even the examples you give - they’re over 8 or 9 years, one is for the title sponsors for the County team. What exactly is your problem with players doing this, or is your problem just with this particular player?. Also you quoted my earlier post, asking if I was having a laugh. Do you know of anything I wrote that’s untrue?. If so, please do share your knowledge.

Someone mentioned comments about Mayo players and their commercial commitments and you said it was "Horse manure, basically. All of it"

I've shown you that is not horse manure at all. Aidan O'Shea is just one particularly bad example. Cillian O'Connor, Lee Keegan and Paddy Durcan deserve a mention too.

How many GAA players are you aware of take part in such extensive sponsorship deals before they've ever won an all ireland? It suggests that maybe the Mayo players should be focusing on more pressing issues first, no?

Maybe making a few extra quid is a more pressing issue for them. They're amateurs and under no obligation to put their county or anyone else first. They give their time and commitment year in year out, that's more than enough.

FFS I stopped reading your BS about organisation culture when I got to the part you mentioned how Dublin look a "hard look at themselves" in the 90s and 00s.

That's some revisionism you've got going on there. You sure it wasn't the millions of euro pumped into them by the GAA that had the desired impact?

As for your other post on AOS and sponsorship, get a life. Any player is well within their rights to get sponsorship even if they don't have an All-Ireland medal. Joe Canning was sponsored by RedBull and others before he ever won Liam. There are many more examples.

In fairness, the game is very different if oconnor plays as you say, and scores the penalty as I am presuming you feel would happen. Watch back the end of the game. Mayo have point chances that they bypass to search out a goal, which is something they wouldnt need to do. If they took the lead via a penalty then they could go into their shell also and tyrone come after them so the dynamic is different. Ruane probably doesnt get a red either. It is simply impossible to judge how the thing would have gone to be honest. It would probably have been quite different.

This is so true about AOS. I feel for him but he has no place anymore as he makes us a weaker team as he is not a big scorer and he has lost his pace. It is sad to say this after all these years but that is the truth. Horan needs to be honest with him and AOS needs to be honest with himself. Football has moved on.

Well said FANOFCONNACHT.

And what’s more, culture involves the supporters as well, because it’s from this county our players sprang forth. They are us, and we are them, no?

So when I see supporters shrugging their shoulders and saying ‘Ah sure, it is what it is’, then don’t be surprised that our team continue to fail to succeed, because it’s ok - your still ‘...simply the best, better than all the rest...” when you get off the bus, in McHale Park.

Wouldn’t happen in any other county with serious All Ireland expectations, that’s for sure.

On the topic of leadership, which was sadly lacking both on and off the field on Saturday, JH didn’t inspire confidence in anyone the way he applied for this position 3 years ago, leaving it until a few minutes before closing, when he made his application. What was he waiting for? - to see if someone else in particular would apply and embarrass a former manager by getting the position ahead of him? Can’t imagine the likes of Brian Cody, or Jack O Connor conducting themselves in such a fashion - should’ve nailed his colours to the mast right from the get-go.