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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,159 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Indeed. Then you add in this quote from human sacrifice in ancient Europe.

    'Lindow man was the victim of a carefully staged sacrifice.

    Recent studies have revealed that Lindow Man's head had been violently smashed and his neck had been strangled and slashed.'



  • Registered Users Posts: 838 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    The donkey said to the tiger:

    - "The grass is blue".

    The tiger replied:

    - "No, the grass is green."

    The discussion heated up, and the two decided to submit him to arbitration, and for this they went before the lion, the King of the Jungle.

    Already before reaching the forest clearing, where the lion was sitting on his throne, the donkey began to shout:

    - "His Highness, is it true that the grass is blue?".

    The lion replied:

    - "True, the grass is blue."

    The donkey hurried and continued:

    - "The tiger disagrees with me and contradicts and annoys me, please punish him."

    The king then declared:

    - "The tiger will be punished with 5 years of silence."

    The donkey jumped cheerfully and went on his way, content and repeating:

    - "The Grass Is Blue"...

    The tiger accepted his punishment, but before he asked the lion:

    - "Your Majesty, why have you punished me?, after all, the grass is green."

    The lion replied:

    - "In fact, the grass is green."

    The tiger asked:

    - "So why are you punishing me?".

    The lion replied:

    - "That has nothing to do with the question of whether the grass is blue or green. The punishment is because it is not possible for a brave and intelligent creature like you to waste time arguing with a donkey, and on top of that come and bother me with that question."

    The worst waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who does not care about truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions. Never waste time on arguments that don't make sense... There are people who, no matter how much evidence and evidence we present to them, are not in the capacity to understand, and others are blinded by ego, hatred and resentment, and all they want is to be right even if they are not.

    When ignorance screams, intelligence is silent. Your peace and quiet are worth more.........



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Mark Twain put it more succinctly ;

    "Never argue with a fool as an onlooker might not be able to tell the difference"



  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think I'll just copy and paste that post the next time someone annoys me :D



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,856 ✭✭✭sporina


    So.. 3. things I noticed from last night's interview..

    1. She asked him if he prays for Sophie - he said "he prays a lot" (no mention of what for or Sophie)
    2. She gave him the opportunity to talk to the nation - have his say.. he didn't look into the camera and or deny the accusation (Pierre Louis looked into the camera on The Late late when appealing to us for info)
    3. He contradicted himself AGAIN as to whether or not he knew Sophie..

    I have no evidence (cos the guards messed all that up) but I think and feel he did it - for many reasons - having listened to all of the West Cork Podcast, watched both doc's and read various articles etc.. but as crap n all as last night's interview was, it backs up what I already think/feel.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,856 ✭✭✭sporina


    Ian cud have looked at the camera, no? To me, it looked like he AVOIDED it!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ian cud have looked at the camera, no?

    then why draw comparison with Piere who was told to? In fact there was two and maybe three cameras.Pierre had to be told which one. On TV like that you do not know which camera you are on. Any time i have seen some one speak to camera they are told which one, they hav eto be as they are not in control of which camera is covering them at any one time



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭lintdrummer


    He did say he prays for Sophie, his words were "I pray for her".

    I don't think he contradicted himself, he said the same thing he's been saying for a long while now which is that he saw someone through the window that he presumed was her but couldn't make her out clearly. Which is what he said to Vincent Browne in the clip they played, except he wasn't as explicit. Lets assume he's telling the truth about this point and put ourselves in his shoes. You see two children and a man outside the house. As you're passing, you see that there is someone inside but you can't see them clearly. You know a woman owns the house so you presume it's her. In your head now if anyone asks have you seen her before, the answer is yes. When you're asked decades later had you ever seen her, you say yes. This opens a can of worms and is used to further accusations against you. So when you're asked this question again in the future, you give further detail.

    As for the looking into the camera thing, was Pierre Louis invited to look into camera? Was it rehearsed beforehand? I didn't see the Late Late. We know he's good with people and knows how to elicit empathy. He made a plea for assistance from the pulpit in the church in West Cork. Bailey on the other hand we know is not able to read a crowd. He recites poetry and kills the buzz during a nice night out. He's clearly clueless with that sort of thing. And he wasn't invited to look into the camera by Colette.

    Look, I'm still on the fence about whether he did it or not. I think he was capable of it and it wouldn't be a surprise to me if he were to eventually confess. But there's just not enough evidence for me to be confident right now that he did do it.

    The points you made above are just confirmation bias because you've already decided he's guilty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭flanna01



    When all the drivel has been edited out of 'The Big Interview', we are left with two things that Bailey stated were relevant:

    1) The person (Gard?) from Bantry that is now deceased

    2) The speeding blue car

    I guess we can all agree that nobody has more knowledge of this case than Bailey himself, given that he would have been privy to all the legal documentation during his harassment by the Gard's and subsequent legal cases.

    So how did he reach such a conclusion? I would suggest that nobody has researched this case as meticulously as he has (for obvious reasons)?

    I was surprised to hear him state that the Gard's had a partial number plate of the alleged vehicle... Is this correct??

    I would have loved to have heard his reasoning behind these statements. I understand that he cannot name & shame anybody on television (exception allowed only for the late late show and Visiting state leaders), but he could have quite easily been coaxed to give more details and explanations with regards to his theories..

    Instead we were forced to listen to the interviewer asking how man drinks he had.. What his income is.. Why retweet pictures of bimbo's.. Where you living now..

    Jesus Christ.. If anybody thinks that was a professional interview, you need your head examining.

    Even I could have got more out of him than that. He was there to refute / counter, the recent public statements made against him (Sophie's Son / French PM)

    Golden opportunity missed. Oven 98% of what she preened out of Bailey was already in the public domain anyway. Big Interview my arse!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭almostover


    On the balance of probabilities and in the absence of any evidence to the contrary I have formed an opinion that IB is the most likely murderer in this case. But this opinion of mine is based on reading books, watching documentaries and listening to a podcast. We don't send people to trial for murder in this country based on weak circumstantial evidence or for being alcoholic, distasteful, eccentric or for domestic violence as that is a crime in itself. IB isn't a pleasant character but he is afforded the presumption of innocence under our constitution, until such time as sufficient evidence is available to try him for murder. That time I'm afraid is likely to never come for either IB or any other individual. The Garda investigation of this case has made sure of that, either by design or just by plain incompetence. Therein lies the true tragedy of this vicious murder, STDP's family have been deprived of justice for her murder by poor police work. The French trial and appeals for IBs extradition are nothing short of a disgrace of international diplomacy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,856 ✭✭✭sporina


    too many to quote (even if I could).. those are just my thoughts/feelings on it - i guess we will never know.... RIP Sophie.. and sincerest condolences to her family and friends..



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As for the looking into the camera thing, was Pierre Louis invited to look into camera?

    https://streamable.com/3tdf8b



  • Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭flanna01


    '' I have no evidence (cos the guards messed all that up) but I think and feel he did it ''

    The above is your first sentence after the three nonsensical points that you scribbled down...

    Just to be polite before some other poster points out the obvious:

    1) When asked if he prays for Sophie - Bailey replies 'I pray for her' *Play the tape back and listen before posting.

    2) Gave him the opportunity to talk to the nation..?? Didn't look into the camera like Pierre Louis did..??? Are you for real?? Presidents address the Nation and trained actors look into the camera... What are you trying to insinuate here..?? Do you conclude his guilt by these actions? May I point you towards your first sentence again, please read and digest.

    3) He contradicted himself again about knowing Sophie... ? No he didn't! He gave the same response he gave 25yrs ago.....??

    Again, may I direct you to the first sentence to scribbled after the three silly points you made.

    Go Away!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Pierre Louis seems to blame all Irish and wants them to tell him what he wants to hear , that Bailey did it. He seems annoyed because no one can. i'd say if someone said they saw someone else do it Pierre Louise would not be happy



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    He may indeed have - the teary gaze into the camera, coupled with sincere tones, has been employed many times by people seeking assistance in solving the very crimes that they themselves committed.

    For whatever reason, he didn't go for the cheap shot.

    My instinct is that he's innocent, the role seems very comfortable to him.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    RIP Sophie.. and sincerest condolences to her family and friends..

    Such virtue signalling crap.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    Add the cases handled by the state claims agency too who also deal in Garda malpractice.

    Average is well over 100 per year. And that's just those who decide to fight against the blue glue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    I don't think he contradicted himself, he said the same thing he's been saying for a long while now which is that he saw someone through the window that he presumed was her but couldn't make her out clearly. Which is what he said to Vincent Browne in the clip they played, except he wasn't as explicit. Lets assume he's telling the truth about this point and put ourselves in his shoes. You see two children and a man outside the house. As you're passing, you see that there is someone inside but you can't see them clearly. You know a woman owns the house so you presume it's her. In your head now if anyone asks have you seen her before, the answer is yes. When you're asked decades later had you ever seen her, you say yes. 

    In fairness, he told Pat Kenny in 1997 that he had seen her and that Alfie Lyons had pointed her out to him. He said the same to Senan Molony "I knew that she was French and I had seen her once two years ago". In one statement, Jules Thomas said he told her after the murder he knew her by sight and had seen her in Brosnan's supermarket in Schull over the weekend. She said "he did not elaborate on whether she was alone or not". I'm not sure if she denies she made this part of her statement or not. The quote is in Michael Sheridan's last book.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I would say these are the only two takeaways from that interview.

    If it was the Guard from Bantry and it was him speeding away in the blue Fiesta, than the whole story would indeed point more towards an involvement with a drug ring and police corruption wanting Sophie dead.

    At a stage where we are now, with evidence either lost or not available, time elapsed, memories fading and neighbours or suspects dead, there is so little focus on motive of the murder.

    What is mentioned in the Netflix documentary is that Daniel Toscan du Plantier had financial problems, the divorced wife having the right to half of his estate, and there was a life insurance premium to be paid, upon his wife's death. This would unfortunately be a very "classical motive" in any murder case.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,338 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Well as recently as June he was still pushing the French hitman theory.

    Unless and until he comes up with hard evidence to support any of these hypotheses he will continue to give the impression of a guy desperately casting around for any plausible-sounding alternative theory to divert attention away from himself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Where are you getting the figures though? The State Claims Agency handles a large number of claims relating to road traffic accidents involving gardai on official business, items lost or stolen in garda stations, personal injury etc. How do you come to the 100 malpractice claims per year?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭lintdrummer


    Yes, good points. If he has actually said that Alfie pointed her out to him, and that's not just hearsay from others, then it's odd that he's neglecting to mention this now. Especially considering that he knows most of what he has said to anybody about the case has been filmed or recorded.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭tinytobe



    I would never rule out the "French hitman theory".

    I would also believe that Daniel Toscan du Plantier had more money to lose in a divorce than the ones involved the "local drug business" theory. And then there was the insurance policy to be paid in the event of her death. Netflix mentions that as well, same as Daniel Toscan du Plantier having to an unspecified extent "financial problems".

    The financial motive for murder would in the French hitman theory certainly have been the highest.

    I also disagree with both the Netflix as well as the Jim Sheridan documentary that the house of Sophie would be "hard to find for an outsider".

    Detailed maps would have been available of the area back then in 1996, plus a hitman would have had very clear instructions on how to find the house as well in order of not to miss and get the job done. The hitman would most certainly even have received a picture of the house.

    If the hitman would have travelled from France but changed planes, let's say in Germany, the Netherlands, the UK, etc... this person would most likely have slipped Garda enquiries. Booking flights but specifically changing flights was possible back then.

    Brining a weapon in would have been too risky. Thus a murder weapon would have to be found locally. Sure, a hitman could have bought a decent size knife to stab her. Regarding the stone, I'd say the hitman would have to have been to the house at least some time before the murder, to find out whether a "suitable" weapon would be there. The "advantage" of using the stone to bash her head in, would have been that if it came unexpected, she would have lost consciousness and not screamed the place down. If a knife would have been used, the chances of her screaming would have been higher.

    The only thing that doesn't fit into the French hitman theory is: It is largely understood that Sophie would have answered the door to somebody she knew, or thought she knew. She could hardly have known the hitman or his voice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    I was driving to the coast road in Ballydehob, coming from Schull, in June and I saw Ian Bailey sitting at a cafe on the street. Not 20 yards away from me when I turned right in the main street. So I know him. Well not quite but depends on the story I'm telling.

    There appear to be people on every forum where this issue is discussed determined to keep re-hashing what is essentially irrelevant information as if it points to IB's guilt. They will talk about unreliable (beyond doubt) witnesses like Marie Farrell or Alfie Lyons and others who are compromised because of drugs as if we are all stupid. The desired effect is to give credence to a police investigation that can be described as possibly criminal. Do these people have a vested interest?

    Alfie Lyons' partner discovered the body. Alfie said when he was informed or had seen the body himself he called the Guards AND some 'neighbours' to ensure they were ok. Given that, what relevance is there as to whether IB knew a French woman had been murdered earlier than when it became common knowledge. He was a journalist and would not have been expected to divulge if he did have this information or where he got it. Other journalists in this case like Eddie Cassidy and Ann Cahill wrapped themselves up in knots evading questions.

    How many other witnesses are there apart from Marie Farrell that Sophie Toscan du Plantier was in Schull on Dec 21st 1996.?

    All this nonsense about Ian Bailey has achieved the desired effect of distracting from any demands that a proper investigation, where Guards are subjected to the kind of scrutiny IB has been, be carried out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    Hypothetically I was thinking if IB did stop at Hunter's Hill and say "Looks like Alfie's having a party" maybe Alfie was having a party.

    If Sophie was in fact going to get up early to get to Cork Airport for the Paris flight maybe she didn't want the noise of a party keeping her awake.

    So she put her boots on and went up to knock on his door. Somebody at the party (fill in any suspect) argued with her and chased her back to her house.

    Instead of going to the door she had come out of (with the keys in it) she went to the other door where the kindling axe was. Violence increased and she was knocked out or killed at that door.

    The perp goes back to the party. It is decided to take the body down to the gate to divert suspicion. Instead of going down the lane they pull and drag down the sloping field as a trail of blood down the road would be too obvious.

    If Sophie was running how was she face up for the coup de grace? A person running would fall forwards face down.

    And the body is left at the side of the lane and the gate open to let the partygoers drive away.

    So it could be someone unknown at the party but once involved in a conspiracy Alfie had to throw the suspicion on someone else.

    All hypothetical as I said.



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    How come Alfie and Shirley Foster weren't subjected to the kind of questioning IB and JT were?

    Why were Dogs uneasy in the area, over a period of about 4 hours?



  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭drumm23


    yeah - it's his job to come up with "hard evidence" on an alternative suspect 😂

    have a word with yourself



  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭drumm23


    her blood is on the gate though - so she must have been alive/upright down at the gate?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Ceri Williams saw Sophie in Schull on the Saturday as well as Maria Farrell. Ceri says she almost bumped into Sophie coming out of Spar and Ian Bailey was across the road at the time. Dan Griffin also made a statement that he saw IB in Schull around that time.

    Do you have information that suggests Richie and Rosie Shelley, Helen Callanan, James Camier, Ceri Wiliams, Yvonne Ungerer, the two neighbours who said there was a fire behind the studio on St. Stephen's Day, the shop assistant in the creamery who saw scratches on IB's hands while he was buying bleach on Christmas Eve, Guy Girard in France, the Guardian correspondent (Webster?), Ariana Boarina, Jules' daughter who said they were out that morning etc. etc. were involved in drugs in the local area? Or are you just dismissing them because they are inconvenient for your argument?



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