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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Massive Berevement


    In my opinion the Marie Farrell thing is simple enough. I don't think she was anywhere other than at home that night. I think in order to get the charges against her husband dropped she was forced to participate in this and a storyline was set out for her. I believe the call that eventually came from her house was all part of it and not sloppyness on her part. She was coerced into saying she was out and about that night and saw Bailey. She can't say she was out on her own as that would raise questions as to why so this mystery lover was brought into it to give the story legitimacy. Because the guards fabricated all this they didn't go after her for the identity of the passenger. If she came to them with that story herself then they'd be all over her for the identity of the man because it would be yet another set of eyes that could support the sighting of Bailey on the bridge. Her husband kept quiet during all this of course and never contradicted that she wasnt out and about that night but also stood by her ever since despite the humiliatingly public knowledge of the infidelity, which keeps reappearing in the media year after year with her giving interviews about it aswell but by her side he remains. My belief is that her sighting of Bailey was fabricated because a Bailey murder in the nightime is the opposite of what actually happened which was a non-Bailey murder in the morning.


    Also on the wine bottle being from a lover who brought it up to the house and was rebuffed. I don't buy that simply because if he was driving up to the house with no intention of ever killing her then he wouldn't be wearing gloves handling the wine bottle. In other words his prints would be all over it because why wouldnt they. And that is the reason it wouldnt have been tossed away on her property either.


    And finally the death itself. I just cannot believe a death as brutal as that would leave only her DNA strewn around the place. If the drug angle was to be believed then the killer wouldn't care about how brutal or sloppy or messy they were because the guards were already onside. And of course they insist the body remains in place despite the state pathologists request to move it as it buys them even more time to tidy up. And low and behold no DNA is recovered. How on Earth is absolutely nothing left behind.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    Lie detector test would be interesting though.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Massive Berevement


    And another thing. Absolute nonsense that she ran to the Ungerers in a panic because she saw the 'White Lady'. Does anyone really believe that. She saw something else though and was right to be panicked.


    Just to add, this could tie in to why she was in such a rush to get out of there and the travel plans being brought forward.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    The timing doesn't work for MF to be going along with a garda story to get her husband off the assault charge, that assault took place on the 13th of April 1997. That's a couple of months after MF made the statement identifying IB. It also doesn't explain why she rang anonymously if she or the gardai felt she or her family could benefit from making this up. They had to appeal for her to come forward on Crimeline.



  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Massive Berevement


    Speculation on my part of course but there could have been charges due against him that we would have no knowledge about as they were dropped due to her agreed participation.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    At the time she did not have plans to travel in the morning, she had an appointment with her housekeeper at noon.

    The door with the keys in is the front door, if she was going to Alfies it would make more sense to go out the back door.

    Her blood on the gate would suggest the attack continued up against the open gate using the initial weapon.

    She either tried to flee or fell into the briars beside the open gate and was pulled back out of the briars, as evidenced

    by the stretched legging bottoms and so ended up face-up.

    then the rock and then the block were used for the coup de grace.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Exactly. He's been just as in the dark as the rest of us and sleuthing away for years.

    No idea why anyone expects him to do the Gardas work for them and have all the answers, although he's clearly done a better job anyway since at least he's looking at the other leads they refused to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Why would one coerce Marie Farrell into stating that she'd seen Ian Bailey at Kaelfadda bridge? Wouldn't it have made more sense into coercing her to state that she'd seen Ian Bailey at 3am exiting the driveway leading to these couple of houses where Sophie lived?



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    Helen Callanan is a very reliable witness isn't she? But you're right she doesn't come across as a dopehead although she does seem to have a blind spot when it comes to sarcasm, which somehow doesn't fit the picture of someone who was an editor of a national newspaper. Has she other connections I wonder.

    Isn't Bailey something? Never breaks under questioning yet happy to tell every half acquaintance the truth. You ask me if I have information about people's involvement with drugs. But that's the point. You don't need to be Paul Williams to know that "helping us out with our investigation" gets people off the hook for various things. Yesterday you were asking if there was evidence of other drug related beatings in West Cork. As if people are going to say things like "I had to hurt him your honour he owes me 2 grand for weed".

    But you don't need me to tell you all this, you can always read the DPP's report and his impression of these "witnesses". Not that it will make any difference to the likes of you who intends to go on ad nauseam about the "evidence". Making a big deal about scratches on IB's hands which the Guards were very careful not to photograph, while Alfie Lyons' hand was bandaged the day the body was discovered but that sparked no interest from investigators.

    You're obviously one of those many people with agendas we are accustomed to in Ireland, they'll swear white is black if it means backing up their own tribe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Bailey I'm sure hasn't taken a lie detector test


    Usually a little clue in that



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  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Massive Berevement


    Might be because it puts her and the lover a bit too close to the murder scene for comfort. Or else might put them on a road they have a hard time accounting for as to why they would be on there. Also wasn't there some claim or another he was down there washing blood off the boots. Need water for that hense the sighting at the bridge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭drumm23


    there's no clue in it at all

    and he said he'd take one on the Virgin interview

    if he passed it - absolutely nothing would change - he's a bête noire to too many people now for them to ever change their view - the Virgin interview was a case in point, ludicrously confrontational and assumptive



  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭drumm23


    Moonunit already said he thinks Bailey "waded into the sea" to clean himself off ... at 4am ... in late December 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    Can you explain why Yvonne Ungerer said in her statement Sophie left their house at 5.45 p.m. but the postman delivering to Alfie on Sunday evening (LOL) said she was in the house at 6 p.m. and there is the visit to the pub in between?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The motive of washing blood off the boots does naturally make sense. However he could have done that at Dunmanus pier as well. There are stairs to walk down, and nobody would have seen him washing it off down there. Down below he would not have been seen by possible oncoming traffic, plus it was in the direction of his home, Kaelfadda bridge was sort of in the opposite direction.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    That's actually another tell


    "I'll take the lie detector test"

    But they never actually take it...



    Of course the tests are inadmissible and inaccurate but he decided not to take one



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    If MF and her pal were at Alfie's party she'd have the motivation to frame IB.



  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭drumm23




  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Massive Berevement


    Your making the assumption that he was there and that he had boots with blood on that needed washing. What I'm saying is that to suit the story he needed to be seen.


    Another thing regarding your question as to why she didnt just say she saw him at the road leading to Sophies instead. What if somehow Bailey could have provided categorical evidence that was not there at that time. That suddenly puts her and the lover front and centre. But of course the guards know it's a fabrication so would be a dead end for them. Instead the sighting is a little further away so that if Bailey could prove he wasn't there then it could be brushed off as her been mistaken, all the while she would not be particularly near the murder scene and her story about being out with the lover would still be intact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭drumm23


    if there was "blood on his boots" that he has to wash off down at the sea, then how come there's not a drop of this blood on the road down to said sea?

    said it before, but the "sighting" at the bridge is a massive red herring that isn't required for Bailey to have committed the crime - MF is a fantasist who would put herself on the grassy knoll in Dallas if you gave her half a chance



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Being abusive doesn't help your argument


    I'm not saying it's definite at all

    However it's quite common for guilty persons to offer to take a test but then they never actually take it

    The spin is the offer to take a test



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    The whole ruse with Marie Farrell was ham-fisted from the start. All the ringing from phone boxes and then from her house was meant to give the impression that there was a reluctant witness but it was with Kealfadda bridge that things got laughable. At that stage the investigators probably thought that they could say IB had driven to the scene but realised later that they'd have to say he'd walked. If Marie Farrell and her "instructor" had concoted a story where IB was spotted on the Toormore to Durrus road they might have sounded more credible as you have to walk a few hundred yards of this going from Liscaha to Dunmanus. They must have been kicking themselves after. They wouldn't have put themselves on the Dunmanus castle to Kealfadda bridge boreen( the one from which the boreen to the house goes) as that would look too suspiciously like a made up story, which it all is.

    One thing I can assure people about the road/boreen from near Dunmanus castle to Kealfadda bridge is that it is a slowly rising road that makes it a real lung-buster. I am relatively fit and my calculation from doing different parts of the walk (at different times by parking near Dunmanus castle) IB is meant to have done to the house is that it's about 40 minutes but with that tough part in the middle. The idea that he set out that night is absurd as far as I'm concerned as he'd have had to crawl back unless he was super fit which his lifestyle at the time doesn't seem to indicate.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Dan Griffin's statements were highly suspect for a start. Him and MF were thick as thieves too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭sekiro



    The problem with the question "was Ian Bailey in Schull on the Saturday" is that it can be answered without context and if no attempt is made to contextualize the answer then it's a bit of a waste of time to even consider it.

    How often would Bailey be in Schull in general? Would Sophie be likely to be in Schull every day if she was visiting Ireland or would it maybe be one trip in to pick up some things and then off back to the cottage? If there's no real context given to their movements then it's a problem. The Ceri Williams testimony actually seems a bit suspect to me but that's obviously a personal thing. She just happens to bump into Sophie and look who was across the road at the time!?

    There's another strange thing here where everyone LOVES to go on about how everyone in the area knew everyone else's business and nothing could ever possibly fly under the radar in this place and that is obviously 100% not true AT ALL. Plenty of well kept secrets, myths and lies floating around the area it seems.

    The scratches is already a bit of a maze because IB is supposed to have been wearing this heavy black coat and got his arms all scratched up by briars but the jacket seems to have been fine and he was seen dragging an xmas tree so that's a bit of an inconvenient fact for the theory.

    The fire is suspicious. Definitely. Of course the waters have been muddied there since the Garda also have a record of taking the jacket into evidence. So he got this jacket all ripped up on the 22nd-23rd, wore it on the morning of the 25th, bleached it later in the day on the 25th, burned it on the 26th and then finally handed it over to the Garda in the end, never to be seen again. That's... well... not all of those things can be true. Multiple jackets?

    Why is he waiting until the 26th to have a fire? He admits to having a fire but doesn't agree on the date, if I recall correctly? In any case the fire is very, very, strange. Doesn't prove much though. Could have been destroying evidence of something else knowing that the investigators would be snooping around regarding the murder eventually?


    I can agree with you that IB is the number one suspect in the case. A lot of shady things that point to him. He is without a doubt the "best" suspect here.

    Where I take a moment to pause and think about it is when you consider other cases where wrongful convictions have been proven and overturned (usually based on DNA) especially very high profile ones. This case reads like wrongful conviction bingo. Virtually every part of the investigation has a massive red flag waving from it. Very likely the only thing that has saved Bailey here is the DPP correctly identifying that the investigation was a complete shambles and there is no actual evidence against IB.

    The case against him seems to hinge on the idea that they knew each other or at least that he knew who she was and that she was in the area at that time. Just seems like the Garda are trying to force a narrative to fit.

    Bailey doesn't help himself, of course, and that's also common in wrongful conviction cases.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    She did not "run to the Ungerers in a panic" it was actually a very passing comment in Tomi I think, statement. One of them. A massive deal has been made out of something that absolutely didn't happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,408 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    He volunteered hair blood samples etc smnething which could convict or exonerate him and counts as admissible evidence and is grounded in scientific analysis.

    But you want him to take a lie detector test which arent admissible and are notoriously inreliable.

    Yet you somehow attach some weight of guilt to this conduct.

    Thats completely illogical.

    Its a tell alright of your biased view.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭drumm23


    Well I'm feeling vexed by the idiocy.

    The interviewer asked him would he take a test - now if he answered "No" then he'd have Moonunit and his ilk breakdancing with joy - but if he answered "yes" then people like you say it's also a tell 😂. Maybe they should hook up a lie detector to Marie Farrell or Detective Dermot Dwyer .... there would be smoke coming out of the poor machine in a few seconds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,343 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Okay he doesn't necessarily have to source the evidence himself but he needs to be able to cite at least some to back up his theories. Otherwise he's just a guy sitting in his study spinning yarns. With an obvious ulterior motive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭Deeec


    I agree Massive Berevement - I also believe MF wasnt out and about that night. I think MF started off making the phone calls just to be part of the 'excitement' ( remember Schull was a very quiet place where nothing happened so the murder bought alot of activity and focus to the area) and make the gardai think she was helpful. Its quite common in big investigations for attention seekers to contact the investigation team with nonsense. The Gardai seen that MF could be easily manipulated and could be an asset to their investigation ie. she could be easily led and perhaps bribed to support their theories - by this time they would have been under pressure and already knew they messed up on protecting the scene and forensics. The Gardai would have also found out by then that Sophie was well connected in France and they needed a suspect fast to avoid looking like fools. Marie was very happy to help them out and really enjoyed the attention. It then of course spiralled out of control for her as she was seen as the main witness to ensure the conviction of Ian Bailey - she never thought it would go this far. Luckily for IB Marie has a conscience and couldnt go through with the plan. MF couldnt see IB convicted as the murderer based on her lies.

    What other explanation can there be than the above to explain why MF has never faced any legal consequences for her part in this. ( other than that the man in the car with her was a gaurd - I think this is unlikely though )



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  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Massive Berevement




This discussion has been closed.
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