I travel to NI to compete in .22 pistol competition with a pistol and revolver, as no restrictions on magazine capacity exist in NI I need to be in a situation where I can use my 10 shot cylinder and also a 10 shot magazine for competition.

The legislation is very clear on capacity for .22 Pistols: (iii) firearms which are designed for use with 0.22 inch long rifle rim fire percussion ammunition and use magazines that have been manufactured or modified prior to use so as to accommodate no more than five rounds of ammunition”.

The key definition of what is reasonable is "modified prior to use", so put simply I can purchase and have possession of a 10 shot magazine for my pistol, however as per the definition in the SI "modified prior to use" I am very clear that inserting a magazine that is not restricted to five rounds at any location of use being a authorized range or club would be in contravention of the legislation. By extension it is not unreasonable to extend the concept to revolvers having a cylinder capacity greater than 5 rounds.

So in my view one can own 10 shot magazines, but they must be modified prior to use, such modification does not need to be permanent, I would equate it to a speed limit on a motor way, I am an owner of a car that will so speeds of up to 210km/Hour. I am on a motorway that has a limit of 120km/hour, if I am travelling in excess of 120 then I am guilty of an offense, I cannot be guilty of an offense for having a car that can exceed the speed limit.

I despair at all the arguments about what you can and can't do, however it is a fact that a National program has been launched by AGS to visit .22 pistol owners homes to check the capacity of magazines and in cases I have heard all the individuals firearms have been seized if they have magazines that are not restricted. So you can imagine the row if the Traffic Division started to confiscate cars because they have the capacity to go greater than 120KM/Hr. What a load of bull, but then that's why we had nearly 1,000 cases in the district court and many in the high court because of the application of the law by AGS, our legislation is not poor legislation as there has never been a case taken in relation to the actual legislation, just the poor application of the interpretation of the legislation by those who should know better, but never learn................get out there lads and check magazine capacity, did anyone hear Joe Duffy today where a poor dog was beaten to pulp by blagards with shovels and the scene was never attended despite so many calls to the local station, no doubt they were out checking that magazines could only hold 5 rounds.............sorry for the rant but it is unbelievable the crap that we have to put up with, wouldn't mind license fees just paid last week 80€ per gun/3 years what in hell do we pay so much money for for such poor and oppressive service.

I certainly can confirm now that this is happening in the areas you mentioned.

FUNI had an approach by a concerned pistol owner that he got a call from his local station that they want to do an audit on his pistol. Go ahead,and let them,but record and film the audit as you can in the privacy of your 4 walls,and don't provide any assistance in providing ammo or information in this inspection,and also ask what qualifications do they have from the AGS to inspect firearms.IE are they Garda tech breach? Are they qualified to handle firearms by AGS? If they have zero knowledge of firearms,well then,you might as well be asking an accountant to perform brain surgery.Also, have a copy of the act to hand to show that this is what they are dealing with and nothing more. Asking about extra mags etc...answer "No comment!" IOW stand up and show and tell this is not going to go well and that you are sympathetic to their orders, but that you are not cooperating or allowing what is required. Nip this in the bud by showing some resistance.

Certainly not unreasonable to cooperate with the Gardai if they are making an inspection, compliance with the legislation is confirmed on every firearms application and as such a reasonable approach by AGS is all that is required, a FO making an appointment to come and inspect firearms and compliance with the legislation is fine however the reports I have heard from the Balbriggan district was the the FO was turning up at any time of the day or night unannounced and actually carrying out searches of bags etc in the persons room, all be it asking permission "is that your range bag? Yes, Can I look in it. Unfortunately FO had such success using these tactics that he managed to highlight what would appear to the Super with no real knowledge of sporting firearms a real crime wave!

If it is that case and I have certainly can confirm this that FO's are calling license holders and making appointments to see their pistol magazines, in one case I know for sure that the FO indicated embarrassment with such a ridiculous task but he has been instructed to carry it out.

Finally I would caution against being uncooperative as long as it is reasonable. The reason I say this is that it would not be difficult for an inspecting Garda to cite suspicion of unlawful activity and get a search warrant and then the **it storm follows: I can confirm I know of one case where it happened already.

So my advice: get your house in order:

1) Gun Safe Bolted to the wall

2) Ammunition stored away from the firearms in a locked box (any locked box)

3) .22 Pistol holders magazines restricted to five shot.

4) Ensure that you do not have excess of your ammunition allowance.

With all this in place why worry and why cause grief to a FO who probably does not want to be there and has been instructed to carry out the bull **it of checking magazines for 5 shot restriction.

Pistol magazine inspections don't currently apply to myself.

I know how I would do it but, how exactly does the FO or whom-ever check the magazine capacity?

A visual inspection of a genuine five rounder is easy enough, what about a larger capacity magazine that’s been altered to hold no more than five rounds.

That was my thinking also.

This then leads to / raises the question of experience/training/proficiency/competency of the personnel (GS) in carrying out the inspection.

I agree totally that if you have nothing to hide and have complied with all rules/regulations, then you have nothing to worry about.

Sounds great, let us all know how you get on in the event of an inspection 😉

So now I cannot have in 'My possession' a 10 round magazine for my pistol that I am in the process of 'Modifying prior to use'. Because if I have I risk the chance of having my pistol taken.

Taking this to another level then.................. You order some magazines from 'Riflemags Uk' for your pistol. They arrive in the post the same day that the AGS arrive to 'inspect' your pistol magazines that they conform to only holding 5 rounds. But you have just opened the parcel with your new magazine's in, and now it's goodbye to your pistol.

Just had my mags inspected. Was asked to go to the station. No drama, the FO just looked at them Checked me off of a list and said this was coming from above said thanks and that was it.

In fairness the correct approach, the FO in Balbriggan could learn from his colleagues

Annddd guess who got a call from his local FO to have his mag inspected? More tomorrow!😁

Soo anyway...

My local FO pitches up this AM and I show him my adapted 5 round mag, grand, and ask him to include in his report WADI's point as above RE 6 rounds. Poor guy was utterly clueless as to why he has to go about the district inspecting magazines of .22 pistols. I had to give him the back story as to why he is doing such. While telling him the difference between restricted licenses and unrestricted licenses when applied to .22 pistols, and what to look for to see that mags are "rendered incapable of holding more than 5 rounds prior to use"

IOW this is a farscial situation of having Gardai traipsing about to pistol owners to check their magazine[s] for something they have no briefing about or clue on how to do or look out for,or would know if it is legal or not. Our tax euros at work...🤣🤣

My two cents

The Gardai arrived unannounced, took all of 30 seconds to see the mags, ticked a box on a list and left.

Over at a range last week and watched two Gardai walk in and give over firearms to be plugged to an RFD and advised they can be collected as soon as they are altered. (Thats all the detail I will give) so as not to identify anyone.

It works both ways, fair play to the Gardai in this instance for taking the right stance and helping shooters get up to date with the requirements, something every licence holder should be aware of, but often for various reasons may not be.

Showed him where the pin was halfway on the 10 round mag.😉

"So in my view one can own 10 shot magazines, but they must be modified prior to use, such modification does not need to be permanent, I would equate it to a speed limit on a motor way, I am an owner of a car that will so speeds of up to 210km/Hour. I am on a motorway that has a limit of 120km/hour, if I am travelling in excess of 120 then I am guilty of an offense, I cannot be guilty of an offense for having a car that can exceed the speed limit."

Can someone highlight the specific legislation related to pistols referred to in the thread generally,

although my reply was mainly related to the section quoted and highlighted by the above poster, I'm asking so I can locate that specific legislation and section that states a magazine modification need not be permanent, not questioning it, I believe that is the case but would like to have the legislation for that one printed out and the section highlighted as I've been told previously, very specifically that such a modification needs to be permanent, prior to a few months back I'd always taken that to be correct.

I've found reading other legislation related to firearms and discussing here, that other aspects of the law I have not known correctly myself, while I should have informed myself rather than just assume something I have been told was correct, people can with good intention pass on incorrect info (like the need to be permanently modified).

The inconsistency of the legislation is laughable. How can the Oireachtas expect us to follow the legislation or expect AGS to know what’s legal and illegal is they have a seemingly infinite amount of undefined terms. Look at magazines, they’re referred to as magazines, cylinders and loading devices, but you are allowed to keep restricted pistol magazines but not SA rifle “loading devices”. There’s another thread about a ruger tactical rifle where barrel length is an issue, even though rifle isn’t defined and would fall under the definition of a long firearm in the 2008 act.

Agreed. It’s perfectly reasonable to remove a limiting device while cleaning or whatever. But I’d also be putting it back k when finished.

You could argue that you took it apart to clean and haven’t limited it yet as you haves used it. But as per Cass’s post above, why would you put yourself in that position.

So ,a month in on this, and has anyone else been inspected apart from an area of Dublin and a few down in Munster?

Gone awfully quiet ...

It was done in Donegal also

I heard some just had to hand in the magazine

I'm not up-to-speed on the specifics of the Balbriggan lad's incident so I might be talking out of my hoop but I'd question the accuracy of that statement.

The Gardai would be entitled to confiscate the firearm pending an investigation, no more, no less. Only a court can order the destruction of a firearm. There was hardly a court case already?

The Guards can confiscate, and if you are then daft enough to sign the bit of paper put in front you they will then destroy it as you have consented to it. Or as in one particular case no form was signed and they sent it for destruction anyway.

Be interesting to know the full details of this case to be able to make an informed opinion. Not casting aspirations on anyone here,but all we have is 2nd hand info and hearsay on this from multiple sources and range scuttlebutt.