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Sally Rooney disappears up her own etc

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  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It is a truth universally acknowledged that Sally Rooney is no Plump Buck Mulligan, but a woman in possession of a publishing contract must be in want of an editorial team. Readers' lives matter.

    These are the opening lines of the teaser extract from Rooney's latest, published in the IT, Aug 28th:

    A woman sat in a hotel bar, watching the door. Her appearance was neat and tidy: white blouse, fair hair tucked behind her ears. She glanced at the screen of her phone, on which was displayed a messaging interface, and then looked back at the door again.

    Of course, it's not necessary for the final product to possess the wit of a Muriel Spark, the genius of an Emily Dickinson, the gravitas and breadth of a Doris Lessing, the imaginative sweep of a Margaret Atwood, or the sex appeal of a Clarice Lispector, but make a bloody effort. (This is in no way aimed at Rooney. I am sure she submitted excellent work, which was mangled and degraded into its current form by a cabal of wolves in editorial.) Faber has published some of the greatest nitwits of all time, dammit... Joyce, Beckett, Eliot, Ishiguro... Posterity matters! :D

    tl;dr The marketing team at Faber has done a fantastic job, but the lazy nitwits in editorial need to up their game, IMO.



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Someone needs to write a book - whiteness and the erasure of Irishness.

    That said it’s not like Rooney writes characters who realise they live in Ireland. At least politically there’s no discussion of local politics, Irish national politics, Northern Ireland, not even Brexit. Her characters are basically white American leftists.

    It’s hard to believe that Irish people who are politically aware wouldn’t discuss some of these issues, they would have lived - in the recent book, and probably normal people as well - through Brexit. A fundamental shift in relations between the EU and the U.K., with the major antagonisms between the two amplified by the Irish border.

    However Rooney is writing for a generic western middle class audience. she knows she can’t mention local politics, the border, or Northern Ireland, Sinn Fein or even Brexit because it would drive people, particularly the American audience, out of the book to look up these facts and events. Then they would feel less attached to the protagonists who would no longer be white generic middle class western avatars, but Irish, and they don’t want to read Maeve Binchey, I suppose.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No one ever needs to write a book. And in 99.9% of cases, we would all have been better entertained if they hadn't.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,996 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    No one is forcing you to read a book. She writes books that an awful lot of people like.



  • Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭backwards_man



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117891249#Comment_117891249

    She gave an opinion about a time in Ireland that she wrote about. ashe was specifically asked about the CC, she did not bring it up. Authors write about times they did not live through. You seem to have a very strong negative opinion about someone you have never met. For sure there are plenty of people claiming victimhood where none exists. But I dont think she is one of them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    [Voiceover: Those who clicked through to the linked article discovered that it did not call Rooney a white supremacist. It said nothing about her that could, on the most extravagant interpretation, be summarized by saying that it called Rooney a white supremacist.]



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    well not quite that word. Just a lot of privilege

    Yet, her stories merely celebrate privileged white people doing privileged white things including going to elite colleges, voluntarily sleeping with bad men, having hang-ups about those bad men, and, if you’re a woman, asking to be hit by them during sex (and making that seem cool, or “grown-up”). Her female characters are depressed, starving,

    in normal people the guy was the son of a cleaner from the West of Ireland. Trinity is elite(ish) but it isn’t Oxford

    In fact the writer - herself upper middle class dismisses the Connell’s class

    Normal People is about two white, able-bodied, beautiful straight people mulling about how hard it is to be white, able-bodied and straight. The girl is a loner who lives in a big house and feels unloved. The worst thing that has ever happened to her is that the boy she likes didn’t ask her toher school’s debutantes ball. The boy suffers from anxiety and doesn’t know what he wants to be when he grows up. He’s a misunderstood footballer whose mother is a cleaner (wow, am I supposed to feel sorry for you?)

    lots of accusations of whiteness there.But as I said on my follow on post, Rooney invites it by writing generic western white characters. She could set the novel anywhere with tiny tweaks



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,677 ✭✭✭storker


    I can't comment on her work, but someone in the Irish Times seems to have a real obsession with her, publishing regular pieces either directly about her, or tangentially, as above. It reminds me of when Amy Huberman was never out of the Indo with pieces being published about her for the flimsiest of reasons.

    I'm only speculating, but maybe it's the same publicist.

    Post edited by storker on


  • Registered Users Posts: 689 ✭✭✭BettyS


    What did other people think of Beautiful World?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    I haven't read it yet, but after your earlier review, I think I'll give it a miss 😀

    I thought 'Normal People' was solid. On the other hand I was bored to tears of the two protagonists by the end of 'Conversations with friends'.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Rooney is by far the most high profile Irish novelist currently working (Ireland being a country which is quite famous for producing talented writers). She has a new novel out this year, and last year the tv adaptation of her previous book was a streaming hit internationally. Naturally, all of those things generate publicity and merit column inches

    By contrast, Amy Huberman is most famous for being married to a rugby player and starring in a couple of obscure TV series.

    It’s difficult to see how there could be any similarity in the coverage they have received. Can you perhaps link to a few examples of articles with “flimsy” premises to illustrate this point?

    Personally, living as we do in the age of endless streaming content and social media saturation, it’s heartening to see that the work of an intelligent young author can still garner this sort of attention (and without the aid of a hot take churning Twitter account).



  • Registered Users Posts: 689 ✭✭✭BettyS


    you make an excellent point!!!! I think Normal People captured people’s self-loathing, that is deeply hidden away. I think that is what garnered her acclaim.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,941 ✭✭✭randd1


    For all her writing about white western privilege stories, doesn't she live in a predominantly white western country? Surely then she merely writing about what she knows about?

    And the more I think about it, the more I think good luck to her. And if people like her books then good for her and good for them.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You are actually contradicting yourself, in saying that “Trinity isn’t Oxford” and suggesting the same story could be set in any Western country with “tiny tweaks.” In England, where social mobility is even more restrictive than here, those two characters are unlikely to have attended the same school or the same university.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,677 ✭✭✭storker



    Fantastic, and I'm delighted for her too, and I'm not comparing her talent or quality of output with Amy Huberman's, although it seems to me that the output of an author and an actress would be next to impossible to compare in any meaningful way. The similarity for me is the virtual carpet-bombing of stories about each by the two national newspapers. Both publications have search functions, by the way, so it should be a trivial matter to judge for yourself if you think it's that important. I'm not trying to persuade anyone of anything, I'm just outlining how it looks to me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,677 ✭✭✭storker


    Indeed, and one piece of advice often given to aspiring writers is "write about what you know". That appears to be what she is doing. I can imagine the outcry if she wrote a book from the POV of a member of an ethnic minority. "How dare she...white privilege...cultural appropriation"...etc



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ….



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not really, as reviewed nobody outside Ireland that the son of a cleaner from a rural area went to an elite university, so the few differences that were there went unnoticed. Thats a fairly minor aspect of my post anyway.



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    She's writing about Ireland but in such a fashion that people can rant about "white privilege". People, in general, with no knowledge of the country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,677 ✭✭✭storker



    What is your problem, exactly? That I expressed an opinion that you don't like? Are you assuming that I was agreeing with the thread title?

    See below for details of how much I care about whether or not you agree with my subjective opinion:



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,885 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    10:00AM

    "It is a truth universally acknowledged that Sally Rooney is no Plump Buck Mulligan, but a woman in possession of a publishing contract must be in want of an editorial team."

    I have to admit this made me laugh out loud.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    “You’re supposed to like her books. It’s tasteful – a cultural signifier. Yet, her stories merely celebrate privileged white people doing privileged white things including going to elite colleges, voluntarily sleeping with bad men, having hang-ups about those bad men, and, if you’re a woman, asking to be hit by them during sex (and making that seem cool, or “grown-up”). Her female characters are depressed, starving, diligently maintaining extremely thin bodies, but oh, they’re also neurotic geniuses.”


    Wow, that review is brilliant and refreshing


    Regarding the Australian using “white” all the time… no different than the fellow travellers in the Irish/western media


    If someone wrote that in an Irish newspaper they would ACTUALLY be ostracised


    Nothing original about phonies acting as lefties, a real Marxist would not pose for photos staring into middle distance on demand


    Will she be taking the minimum wage or accepting the profits from her products? … Exactly


    Rooney is not the first apparent “voice of a generation” that wouldn’t sneeze in the direction of the same

    She’s an elitist and a capitalist and she knows what people want and gives it to them


    A privileged Trinity student from the West of Ireland posing as a Marxist, dishing out tropes,

    give me a break



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    No one in the world does begrudgery like the Irish, we truly are black belts at it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    Was wondering when someone used that word


    It has lost all meaning and one loses respect for anyone that uses it


    Holding people to account or legitimate criticism is not begrudgery


    I could steal from a charity and claim I was “begrudged” my money by typical Ireland


    Using “begrudgery” as an excuse is the first and last resort of a scoundrel



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,996 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There is nothing anti-Marxist about accepting above minimum wage or profiting from your own labour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    Everything you said is subjective and mostly rambling nonsense. We as a nation have a history of showing our displeasure, resentment or envy of success and often criticise ostentatious displays of success. Google "Irish Begrudgery" and a whole host of hits will appear, just because you dislike a word doesn't mean what it represents doesn't exist.



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    the review was nonsense. Written by someone who knows nothing about Ireland.

    as for Rooney’s Marxism - it’s clearly performative but Marxists don’t have to take the minimum wage, and she earns her own bucks. She’s not working class but not quite capitalist either.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,996 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Written by someone who apparently thinks "privileged white folk" from the bloody countryside in Ireland are apparently not allowed have any problems ever.



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I should say that I like her books. And the TV show. I was actually complaining about that review because I like her. That said she is writing for a generic western audience.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    Well of course it is subjective


    Do you have any scientific or statistical evidence that "we as a nation" resent people more if they are succesful?*

    If they are resented it could be because they are hypocrites, attention seekers or corrupt - their apologists would call critics "begrudgers"



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