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Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,600 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    The injury issue is always in play. Leinster were decimated last year. Perhaps an injury free run would be the difference. I think that while we have a good deep squad, there's a limit to ability. We do not have dominant world class players. But, our nucleus have been together for eons. I think we can make a semi final in Europe and with a run of luck...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,179 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Jaysus, that totally passed me by. Grand so, we'll definitely win Europe if that's the case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    If by blueprint you mean “have a pack that can dominate their pack” then you’re going to need to show me an example of a team that can be dominated up front by a top team and still win. Sure dominating up front has always been key. Isn’t that why the cliche is that forwards win games!?

    Teams have to at least gain parity or close to it in order to win games. Sure there are the odd exemption to that in individual games, but it’s as good a rule of thumb as you can get in rugby.

    Leinster lost the battle up front vs Saracens in the 2019 final and made a few errors that compounded that (McGrath and Ringrose in particular). In 2020 we lost the battle up front and compounded that with silly errors like the Sexton penalty which gave them easy access and easy points. In 2021 we lost the battle up front but this time that was compounded by misfortune over who refereed the game. Carly was quick to blow at the breakdown relative to most others. This gave La Rochelle the benefit of possession, territory and regular breathers that they may not have gotten with a different ref.

    Losing the battle up front, especially against top teams, will almost always lead to losing the game. Losing the battle up front also leads to pressure, fighting against the momentum that generates for the opposition etc which all leads to greater potential for error. If we can gain a bit more parity up front with Porter and Baird into the starting line up then we give ourselves a better shot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    Unpopular opinion but the player leinster could really use is klyn. We won't get to sign etzebeth or similar either because of the scarcity of those guys and irfu blocking. Klyn is irish qualified, probably not first choice in munster with snyman and bierne and would be a realistic option.

    He's been good against Leinster in the last couple of encounters (just don't ask him to carry, so similar to toner in that role!)



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 mark_way


    Kleyn is excellent. I can see him coming into the Ireland reckoning a lot more with Roux's departure.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭TRC10




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,179 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Hmmm. Roux hadn't played with Ireland in a long while and it didn't help Kleyn. For the summer tests, we had two guys on the Lions, Roux had departed, we named five second-rows and still Kleyn didn't feature.

    He has a wee bit of ground to make up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan


    I'd rather Thornbury than Kleyn.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The only second rows playing in Ireland that I'd see making the Leinster first 23 are Snyman and Henderson. Ryan didn't have a 2018 season last year, but he is still a hugely impactful player and I'm hopeful will progress on again this season. The jury is still out on Baird and at the moment I'd view him similarly to how I view Beirne. He's extremely athletic and has good skills, but is he going to help neutralise the impact of the Will Skelton's and Maro Itoje's of this world?

    If we had Leavy back fit I'd be confident of our chances in Europe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan


    Beirne would walk into the 4 jersey for Leinster, as would Thornbury.

    Both are clear upgrades on Toner, Molony and Baird.

    Post edited by Lsdrugbyfan on


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't think Thornbury would walk into the Leinster team anymore than he did when he finished with the academy. Beirne is a 5.5 at best and a more natural blindside - I think he is better than Baird currently for sure, albeit it remains to be seen how Baird develops and if he can master the graft and groundwork of a second row. If Beirne was available to Leinster I think we'd exclusively play him at 6.



  • Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan


    take off the blinders, Thornbury is a big athletic lock who offers a lot more than the current version of Toner or Molony.

    He isn't the same player who got left go out of the academy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't know why you think I'm not being objective. I rate Thornbury, but I would be surprised if his international career came close to Toners and I think the likes of Baird has a higher ceiling. I would be happy to be wrong as it would mean another quality operator for the Irish team, but I don't see Thornbury being a regular feature for Ireland in the future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan


    we aren't talking about international careers, we are talking about playing for leinster now.. and Thornbury would offer much more than Toner currently. Same with Molony.

    Baird is looking more and more like a 6 to me.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Toner would still offer a better set piece than Thornbury based on last season. Is Thornbury injured at the moment? He didn't make Farrell's one day training squad, Dillane did however.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,179 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Toner was still playing very well last season. If he can keep going this year, he'll be a good asset.

    Gotta keep in mind that Baird has only just turned 22, he's a baby in second-row terms.

    I'd put Thornbury on the same level as Molony tbh. Would be thoroughly unenthused if he came back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan


    Leinster Rugby Development XV vs. Connacht Rugby Development XV


    15. Dylan O’Grady (Belvedere College)(u20)

    14. Fionn Gibbons (Castleknock College)(u20)

    13. Conor Gibney (Mullingar RFC)(u20)

    12. Ben Brownlee (Blackrock College)(u20)

    11. Aitzol Arenzana-King (CUS-Balbriggan RFC)(u20)

    10. Charlie Tector (Kilkenny College/Lansdowne FC)(u20)

    9. Seanan Devereux (St. Mary’s College)(u20)

    1. Ben Popplewell (Wexford RFC/Blackrock College)(u20)

    2. John McKee (Old Belvedere RFC) CAPTAIN

    3. Thomas Connolly (DUFC)

    4. Fionn McWey (Portlaoise RFC-Cistercian College Roscrea)(u20)

    5. Conor Ó Tighearnaigh (St. Michael’s College)(u20)

    6. Will McDonald (IQ Rugby)(u20)

    7. Dylan Ryan (St. Michael’s College/DUFC)

    8. Donough Lawlor (Newbridge College)(u20)(u20)


    Replacements

    16. Barry Gray (Carlow RFC/Clontarf FC)(u20)

    17. Oisín Michel (Cill Dara RFC/Lansdowne FC)(u20)

    18. Michael McCormack (St. Mary’s College RFC)

    19. Paul Deeny (Wexford RFC/Clontarf FC)(u20)

    20. Jonathan Ross (Belvedere College)(u20)

    21. Conor Duggan (St. Vincent’s Castleknock College)(u20)

    22. Daniel Hawkshaw (Belvedere College)(u20)

    23. Callam O’Reilly (St. Michael’s College)(u20)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,600 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I'm not too worried about our 2nd rows. Obviously, losing Fardy is a big loss. But, Fardy was declining quickly just as Toner is.

    The key issue will be Ryan's health and his recovery from the concussions. If he's healthy and firing on all cylinders I think we'll be in a nice position. Ross Molony is for me, our 2nd lock. He's not eye catching and destructive, but he is very solid.

    Baird impresses against low level opposition. He may improve and take the jersey. He certainly has the raw materials.

    Toner imo is a spent force, he doesn't carry the ball with any muster and most sides would not target him as a threat. I think he will probably be a sub this season.

    I want to get a look at Dunne. He's a big athletic fecker and could be a regular. I think he's injured atm?

    I rate Deeny and Charlie Ryan. They may make their debuts fairly soon. Both are in their 3rd academy year. Although they are young lads, they have bright futures. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Soroka play 2nd row this year. He is a little undersized but he's dynamic and powerful.

    I think 2nd row will be an area of strength. Injuries could destroy that notion though!



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,785 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    I see Michael bent scored a try in taranakis win over Wellington earlier today. Nice one!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,180 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I don't see Bairds future being in the backrow. The coaches are definitely trying him out there and as an impact sub in particular. He has tremendous pace and strength as a ball carrier. He could do a lot of damage from 6 against a tired defence. But so far that hasn't worked in practice. He hasn't played particularly well in the backrow from what I can remember. All his best performances have come playing in the second row.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Thrashssacre


    Ticket sales for the bulls game seem dissapointing, Only the bottom tiers open at reduced capacity and it's nowhere near sold out yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    I took a quick look on TM. Some of the seats being sold for €60 (!) are not good at all and are a few seats away from those being sold at €35. I'm not sure the lower tier will completely sell out.

    Hopefully you will get some latecomers but I'm not sure what kind of a draw the Bulls are to casual fans. Only Super Rugby watchers would be very familar.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,179 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    In fairness to Baird, he has only just turned 22. That's a baby in second row terms unless your frame of reference is Ryan or Henderson.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,914 ✭✭✭Rigor Mortis




  • Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan


    Leinster development lost 67-7 to Connacht at the weekend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,612 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    I described it to friends as, "we're playing against a team we've never played in a competition no one has ever heard of, with a mostly second-string team in a two-thirds empty stadium that isn't serving booze." - not all that enticing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,180 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    From the inury report: Conor O’Brien, Jamison Gibson-Park, Max Deegan and James Lowe all came through the game against Quins with no issues after their return from injury and are expected to train as normal this week.


    In addition, Cullen confirmed that Andrew Porter (foot), Nick McCarthy (foot), Garry Ringrose (shoulder), Ciarán Frawley (shoulder) and Dan Leavy (knee) had all returned to full training this week and are available for selection.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,437 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    Great to see those players back training and available, particularly Leavy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    I’d imagine we’ll be taking it easy with Leavy so wouldn’t be surprised to see him sit this one out. Possible team:

    Healy, Sheehan, Ala’alatoa, Baird, Toner, Ruddock, VDF, Deegan

    McGrath, Sexton, Lowe, COB, Ringrose, ???, Osbourne

    Tracy, E Byrne, Porter, Molony, Penny, McCarthy, R Byrne, Frawley

    Right wing is a tricky one. No mention of JOB or Adam Byrne in the update, never mind ROL. Hard to know who is available there as a result.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I remember Leavy winning a MOTM award towards the end of last season and being asked if he had hopes of returning in green and he was subdued and reticent in his reply which I thought was uncharacteristic at the time. Obviously he required further intervention on the knee injury which he may well have been aware of, but you'd hope if he's recovered that he can push on again and become an option. To my mind when fit he's the most complimentary option at 7 given the mobility we generally have at 6 and 8.

    I still almost wince when he goes into contact or looks to steal, easily one of the worst injuries I've ever seen in rugby.



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